SatelliteGuys 921 Review

[Scott Greczkowski]

Tes you can record one sat channel and watch and OTA Channel.

You just can't use all 3 tuners at once.

If your watching a OTA Channel and have 2 timers set to fire you will receive a message on the screen that a timer is about to fire and it will take away the tuner your watching, it will then ask you if its ok.

 

[markdl]

Also the fact that there is no on screen OTA Signal meter when tuning to a OTA Channel is also another major downfall. Here in Connecticut the local CBS broadcasts at low power the only way to pick it up is to have my antenna aimed EXACTLY at their antenna. On the 6000 I could tune to the digital channel and a OTA Meter would appear in the browse bar which would let me adjust my antenna accordingly. There is no such beast on the 921.

You must have missed my previous post on this one, Scott. While there isn't a signal meter on the browse banner when you are tuning to a digital OTA station, there is a signal strength screen just for the OTA stations. Go to the Point Dish setup secreen, and under the Tuner option, Off-Air is one of the choices. Select it and you are on a screen that shows signal strength for whatever OTA channel you scroll to.

Mark Lamutt has proposed a fix at DBSTalk CLICK HERE by resetting your settings to 480p when watching SD programs, to me this is an unacceptable fix because you should not have to reconfigure everything each time you want to watch TV, in addition on my TV when my HD input flips to 480p mode the calibration is all off, in 1080i mode my HDTV is ISF Calibrated by Gregg Lowen.

Actually, this wasn't meant to be a fix for the AR problems. Displaying SD channels in this manner provides the best satellite SD picture I've ever seen from Dish Network. It provides a picture that is far superior to one that is upconverted to 1080i. And yes, it's a real pain in the ass to have to switch display options around to use this mode, but that's why I'm working on getting Dish to add discrete remote codes for all of the display options. Still not a perfect solution, but for those who want the absolutely best SD satellite picture, this is the way to watch.

 

[TheForce]

Good man! You already tested those.

Sounds like a system limitation to me.
( I wonder how the HDTIVO is handling this limitation observed on the 921?)

This is a question for discussion when face to face with the engineers as the logic behind this snafu escapes me. I am making note of it to ask next week at CES! Thanks, Scott.

 

[markdl]

That was a good catch, Scott, and a condition that I missed. One sat tuner recording, the OTA digital is still available, 2 sat tuners recording, OTA isn't. And I suspect it is what Don speculated - due to the buffering issue.

 

[John Corn]

Having the look and feel of a 721 won't be a disappointment to me, right now I have my 721 and 811 hooked to the same TV, and thats a pain jumping back and forth.

I like the 721 menu's and thats what I'm comfortable with.

Nice review......Thanks Scott.

 

[Smith P.]

Actually a good point.

Locals are so new for me on Dish I forget they are there.

No I don't see a slot for a second off air tuner. (And no you can not watch OTA local TV while recording from both satellite tuners.)

I saw internal pictures - there are 3 (three) expansion slots.

 

[sjhart]

Scott,
I'm suprised at your 6.5 out of 10 score (based on how well you seem to originally like the 721). Isn't the 921 pretty much the same (but HD)? I currently have a 721 and 6000. Having one operating model will be a real plus for my family. Even with the OTA issues, it seems like it is doing everything else that it was suppose to do? I personally can't wait to have pause and other basic DVR functions which the family likes on the 721. I'm getting one as soon as I can. Thanks. SJ

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Yes the 921 is basicly the same as the 721, however my disapointment was there were no improvements made to the system whatsoever.

A 721 owner is going to get a 921 and say Big Deal after hooking it up. (While a person who never had a PVR will say OH WOW!)

There is a lot Dish could have done to make their top of the line receiver feel like the top of the line receiver.

Again a nice welcome and instructional video for the user to watch while the software was downloading would be cool, a few sample HD Clips, maybe an ad for the HD package something to make the user feel like they got a very good piece of equipment.

 

[mike123abc]

It would be cool if they had a 921 video, but they could just run a clip of the HD Demo loop with an overlay of the download progress.

 

[Sean Mota]

Don I am sitting in front of my 921 now. I am recording 2 shows from satellite.

When I try to switch to a OTA Channel I get the following message...

"Your request can only be carried out in live mode. Stop recording and switch to live mode now?"

Scott,

As a 721 owner, we all have experienced this bug in another fashion. It's quite an understatement that E* did not catch this bug while doing quality control of this unit. I am wondering if they ever did any quality control because these two bugs are very obvious bugs that do not require much checking. I wonder what my boss will say if we deliver buggy applications to our units. I think I'll be out of a job tomorrow.

I am also dissapointed on the lack of OTA PG data. You would think that E* by now would do this in their sleep and yet they are asking us (HD enthusiasts) to invest in another equipment that has a lot of potential but there are features which are not active or buggy.

As a 721 owner, we never saw internet turn on or any external device through the USB. We just recently got the weather application and we are still waiting for the others. We have suffer through a lot of buggy software.

The 921 offers the ability to HD recording (20 hrs max) which it is good but we need either a bigger Hard Disk or the Dish Wire to be turned on so that we can archive these recordings. 20 hrs is better than nothing but it is not much.

Again, I hope it does not take E* a whole year or until the summer to turn dish wire on and fix the ota bugs and give us an ota pg guide. These are very important features to me and I will not invest $999 on a product that does not have these from the get go. I have seen those promises from E* and no delivery on the promises.

In conclusion, I hope that E* gets it together before other DVR's hit the market but they have been dragging their feet for so long on this unit that I do not know anymore what is their problem. I will have to eat the $50 from Dishdepot if my number comes up and they call me to get a 921 (which I doubt right now given the small amount of supply). I will not buy it until dish wire is on and is working without bugs. I maybe without a 921 for a long time.

 

[A_Noland]

Yes the 921 is basicly the same as the 721, however my disapointment was there were no improvements made to the system whatsoever.

I think we need to keep 2 things in perspective.

1. The 721 has lots of room for improvement itself.
2. The 921's HD and OTA Features obviously have introduced more instability to the platform.

With those 2 points in mind - Lets just hope that the 921 will reliably record and playback both HD and SD programs. With any luck both receivers will receive enhancements in the future that will make us go 'WOW'.

Oh, and I think adding HD should be considered an improvement.

 

[TheForce]

Sean- Much of what you say has great merit but you have joined the chorus of those crying for OTA program guide info.

If you go to the HDTV forum on AVS and begin to search the Locals section for OTA PSIP and OTA guide issues you will soon discover that most of the nation's stations broadcasting HDTV are having a plethora of issues with airing proper guide info at this time. Not only is there no standard being followed but many of the stations are having issues with such simple things like clock accuracy.
Until these issues get resolved on a local level it will never be corrected on the 921 for us users on OTA stations.
The beauty of watching the "cable" networks on dbs is that these guides are managed by one source, the DBS provider so a standard, one standard is easy to resolve than all the different errors coming from the locals uplink. Network primetime should be the easiest to resolve but local generated guide info will be a long time coming and probably never until the FCC steps in and adopts a working standard for all stations to follow.

 

[Sean Mota]

....Not only is there no standard being followed but many of the stations are having issues with such simple things like clock accuracy...

Don,

you just made me think about this PG issue again. VOOM stb does provide the PG for local OTA. I have been watching it and it has been very accurate. Even accurate to give you an indication as to what program will be in HD. One thing that I have not checked, and it is worth checking, is the clock accuracy. I'll check this to see whether it is accurate.

Why would it be difficult for E* to follow on VOOM's step to give us an OTA PG?

 

[rudolpht]

Sean- Much of what you say has great merit but you have joined the chorus of those crying for OTA program guide info.

If you go to the HDTV forum on AVS and begin to search the Locals section for OTA PSIP and OTA guide issues you will soon discover that most of the nation's stations broadcasting HDTV are having a plethora of issues with airing proper guide info at this time. Not only is there no standard being followed but many of the stations are having issues with such simple things like clock accuracy.
Until these issues get resolved on a local level it will never be corrected on the 921 for us users on OTA stations.
The beauty of watching the "cable" networks on dbs is that these guides are managed by one source, the DBS provider so a standard, one standard is easy to resolve than all the different errors coming from the locals uplink. Network primetime should be the easiest to resolve but local generated guide info will be a long time coming and probably never until the FCC steps in and adopts a working standard for all stations to follow.

Don,

Not only is Voom doing it, but the DirecTV APG has been doing it for a couple years since I moved up from a DTC-100 to a Toshiba 3000 (since replaced also), and done it very well. All OTA stations (Analog & Digital).

Tim

 

[AppliedAggression]

What's the bay like thing in front of the 921? Is it a cover for something, or just a groove for looks?

 

[ride525]

For those of you wondering they 921 WILL NOT work with only 1 satellite cable hooked up to the unit.

Scott, I'm confused. I have a Dish 5000 system with a single receiver. Now a 6000.

Why do I need a second cable? To record a second program while watching one?

And does the need for a second cable mean that I need to make a second run from my Dish 500 to my 921 (if I get one).

Thanks

Jeff

 

[TheForce]

Sean and Tim-

Consider where you are. NYC is the number one market and staffed by some the best engineers in the business.

The PSIP standard is an ATSC suggested procedure but it is not mandatory and consequently, not all stations have adopted it to the specification detail. Many don't even understand all the protocol, yet. Point is you can't assume that just because your stations have it right in NYC that it will be correct in every local station in the country. This is where the problem is.
Now if this were a FCC regulated standard, then violations of the PSIP as stated by the ATSC had consequence, we would see more attention being paid to the details by local stations. The norm today is many stations are not even using PSIP and many are doing it incorrectly through ignorance, especially those stations who have come on board to the DTV game lately.

Sean, I just mentioned the clock accuracy as one example. I doubt your stations in NYC are having problems but I know this was an issue for a number of months for one station here in town. The CE told us that once he "rigged up a PC to seek a time base standard on the internet and update their station clock that issue was resolved. " When I heard this I was dumb struck that a station would need to go to this method considering some of the broadcast time standards that have been available over the years for stations to use. But, I believe this is the result of our beautiful deregulation of the engineering standards in broadcast today. Frankly much of today's broadcast TV is an amateur radio experiment compared to the days when FCC regulated everything.

All I'm saying is the issue you all are complaining about is bigger than just a 921 software upgrade. Maybe not in NYC but nationwide it certainly is.

 

[TheForce]

Applied Aggression-

I pulled that cover off and behind it is a space for a rail kit and connector for an IDE drive. The engineer from Eldon explained that it could be adopted for any IDE type device in the future based on software access. IT actually comes off quite easily and snaps back into place in the vintage 01/03 921 I looked at. I'd be curious as to whether this has changed so anyone who is brave enough to explore their consumer beta unit, it would be nice to know.

 

[markdl]

For those of you wondering they 921 WILL NOT work with only 1 satellite cable hooked up to the unit.

Scott, I'm confused. I have a Dish 5000 system with a single receiver. Now a 6000.

Why do I need a second cable? To record a second program while watching one?

And does the need for a second cable mean that I need to make a second run from my Dish 500 to my 921 (if I get one).

Thanks

Jeff

The 921 has 2 tuners, and both must be connected for the 921 to work. You can't get past the check switch screen without both connected.

 

[bubba04]

For those of you wondering they 921 WILL NOT work with only 1 satellite cable hooked up to the unit.

Scott, I'm confused. I have a Dish 5000 system with a single receiver. Now a 6000.

Why do I need a second cable? To record a second program while watching one?

And does the need for a second cable mean that I need to make a second run from my Dish 500 to my 921 (if I get one).

Thanks

Jeff

The 921 has 2 tuners, and both must be connected for the 921 to work. You can't get past the check switch screen without both connected.

It baffles me as to WHY Dish made it a requirment to have TWO line feeds for the 921 to work. Sure, we would have more functionality and options with the 2 tuner setup. But for people who just want to have the receiver function like a 501 and record in HD, this is a real bummer. I like many others here will not be able to get the second line installed, so for now (until switch 44) the 921 is off the table for me. How hard could it be to make the unit function with just one line?

Clearly E* released these products too soon to try to get the jump on the competition. The 811 and 921 are obviously beta units right now. We are "early adopters" so we should probably expect some problems. I just wish the service was better.
Bubba04