Salvage of AMC 14 Cast Aside

[varaonaid]

I'm surprised about the insurance amount of $150 million. That's much lower than I anticipated. I thought that the sat cost upwards of $400 million to build plus, then, the loss of revenue from not being able to actually use it. So how does that all work out? Was it much less expensive to build that I thought? Or is there no insurance on the build cost? Or ???

 

[Voyager6]

I'm surprised about the insurance amount of $150 million. That's much lower than I anticipated. I thought that the sat cost upwards of $400 million to build plus, then, the loss of revenue from not being able to actually use it. So how does that all work out? Was it much less expensive to build that I thought? Or is there no insurance on the build cost? Or ???

I think that launching costs and sat building costs are separate. SES will not have to pay for the unsuccessful launch but their insurer will have to pay for the cost of the sat. Don't know if future revenue was insured but it doesn't sound like it was.

 

[haertig]

I'd say, screw the patent, fix the sat, and then let Boeing sue you to defend their patent. It's a one time deal, not a product being sold to anyone, and Boeing would need to show their economic damages.

 

[Smith P.]

The patent pitch came from someone who do not represent SES and SES' release stated nothing related to that !

 

[vegassatellite]

The patent for that one would have gone to the contractor managing the engineers who came up with the idea, probably most certainly contractors. I don't have a clue who that contractor was, but I'd put some money on Boeing.

I think then, that it should be Grumman Aerospace Corporation, maker of the Lunar Module. As a gag, they sent a "towing" bill to North American Rockwell, manufacturer of the Command Module. Lunar Modules aren't intended to bring spacecraft around the moon and back to Earth, just for landing on the moon, etc.

LINK (humorous read)

 

[mike123abc]

I'm surprised about the insurance amount of $150 million. That's much lower than I anticipated. I thought that the sat cost upwards of $400 million to build plus, then, the loss of revenue from not being able to actually use it. So how does that all work out? Was it much less expensive to build that I thought? Or is there no insurance on the build cost? Or ???

This was an inexpensive CONUS only satellite. When they have to add the electronics and dish arrays to do spot beams is when it gets expensive.

 

[jansan]

And from SES, its official press release regarding the losss of AMC-14:

Press Release

The press release fails to address issues with Echostar the lease holder. Surely, SES will have to pay for failure to deliver or something. I just don't see Echostar trying that kind of risk (I have been wrong).

 

[riffjim4069]

It would appear that Boeing is a major shareholder of TiVo stock since they both possess questioanble patents. In any case, I am happy with full resolution HD being provided by FiOS TV.

 

[SatinKzo]

How do you patent physics?

Heck that is what I was thinking. Do we all have to pay Gravity licensing fees?

I guess maybe I missing something here.

 

[Juan]

Did it ever occur to anyone that SES might have an on the ground spare (much like Sirius and XM)?

 

[jcrash]

Prior Art - many, many science fiction books written since the early 20th century.

 

[CJPC]

For what its worth, I am also surprised that if Echostar can't buy the satellite outright, they dont make a deal with Boeing and SES. SES drops the lawsuit, and E* pays SES the cash, for partial ownership of the satellite. Then they get to go with the lunar option.

 

[ats7627]

The press release fails to address issues with Echostar the lease holder. Surely, SES will have to pay for failure to deliver or something. I just don't see Echostar trying that kind of risk (I have been wrong).

Echostar (SATS) made upfront payments to SES in excess of $40Million. They had procured insurance to cover substantially all of the upfront payments.

 

[navychop]

Wouldn't it be somewhat valuable as a backup, especially if it has not used it's fuel?

It is useless in it's current orbit. It would use up most, perhaps nearly all, of it's fuel to reach the proper orbit. Depends upon how they do it. If they swing around the moon, there is the possibility of damage, as happen to that AsiaSat. If they could get it up where it's useful, it could be a primary satellite, no need to be a backup. Even if it's only good for a very few years before running out of fuel.

Boeing is (supposedly) demanding payment for them to use Boeing's idea of swinging past the moon to save it. If they just proceed without Boeing approval, Boeing can likely file for a restraining order, dragging it out to where the satellite is useless.

The sat must keep enough fuel onboard to deorbit or reach the graveyard.

Too many uncertainties. They seem to have decided to cut their losses, rather than risk court action and paying people and tracking sites in some attempt to salvage the satellite.

This is bad news for the Russians as well. I'm not sure they can get insurance, or at least, reasonably priced insurance, for any future launch using the Briz (Breeze) upper stage. Too many problems. They will have to be very convincing that they've fixed the problem before anyone would want to use it again, or insure it again. I suspect they will accelerate the development of the replacement upper stage, which is already well along.

 

[bordeauxboy]

How do you patent physics?

USPO will patent just about anything if you ask - and at least make a passing attempt to show a useful application of the concept. It was encouraged after the State Street Bank v Signature Financial case in the 90s.

Used to run into this all the time when working in the electronics industry, as software folks were always patenting mathematical formulae. Seem to remember once being told by our counsel that the Pythagorean theorem had been patented for use in computer code - don't know if that was true or not, but it seemed like a real possibility at the time.

Meantime, this affair is not good news for my HD viewing pleasure.

 

[redmerlin]

You know what, sence boeing holds a patent on how to do something.. does this mean that I can write instructions on how to start a car and sue everyone who owns a car for patent violations.. In a sence this is what boeing is doing.

When you apply for your patent would you use the word 'sence'? I would opt for 'since'

 

[kc0zhq]

Copy of the patent in question. This is just silly. Prior art aside, I don't think a patent on physics is going to hold up.

Free return lunar flyby transfer ... - Google Patents

 

[navychop]

But it will involve expending coin of the realm to overturn it.

 

[Hall]

When you apply for your patent would you use the word 'sence'? I would opt for 'since'

Yeah, that makes more "sense" ... "since" you put it that way, but hey, that's just my two "cents".

 

[rglore]

Of course SES wants to total the satellite and take the insurance check. That would be best for their stockholders. It would cost major unplanned funds to get it to orbit and then not deliver the full lease fees so it would be a big loss financially. The insurance company will want to minimize their loss payout so they may sell it to Echostar or even SES if there's any possibility of getting some use from it. I would hate to see such a nice bird splashed into the ocean.