Rumor Alert: SuperDish Coming Soon to Many

[MikeD-C05]

That is why Charlie will do the Superdish. Not many people will call to upgrade just for the side channels they don't watch now or even have the second dish for. You said so yourself. Dish saves money in not doing the upgrades and gets to look like they are in compliance with the FCC while still thumbing their nose at them. This is classic Charlie style. Till the Fcc says directly in plain language : YOU MUST keep all locals on ONE Dish and not split up over several satellites, Dish will continue to look for Technicalities like this to not comply. Using ONE Superdish for locals and national channels is in compliance with the rules as written. Unless they change the rules to say the above , Charlie will still do what I said. He is going to go the cheap route to comply and he knows that many people won't call to upgrade. Saves him money . Charlie is not interested in complying with the FCC rules on Must Carry. He hates must carry channels. He only wanted to do the top 4 networks in each city from the beggining and this is his way to do just that. Only the top 4 networks are uplinked to the main sat ,give or take a few, and the rest is on the side satellite. This is Charlie's way of complying without really complying. I doubt very seriously that Charlie has changed in his intentions. Now when the newer satellite goes up next year , he might change things to really comply but for now he is going to stall as long as he can to save money and still get his way. The superdish is the way to do this.

 

[larrystotler]

You are still missing the main point - cost. Installing a wing is a great deal less expensive than to install than an SD. Moving all the small DMAs to a wing would be a lot cheaper than moving them to an SD which he already has other plans for. HD will more than likely go on the 105, and the 105 locals will be shifted to E10 or 1 of the wings. Large DMAs will have all channels on the d500. I may be wrong, but I just do not see the SDs being the home of the locals when you can use spots on the existing 110/119 as the sats are replaced and upgraded would make a lot more sense. Moot point really - we will have to see what happens.

 

[Chris Freeland]

MikeD-C05, I agree with larrystotler that you are missing the point. If this one dish rule remains (which is likely) after the Senate and House bill are combined and goes into effect, it will mean that even if dish leaves some of the locale's of a split market on 110/119 and some on 105 or 121, all of the subs in that market would have to be upgraded to a SD if they want to sub to their locals, weather they want all of their locals or not, it will be a take 1 and take all proposition and would not have the choice to not upgrade, and this would make your plan more expensive. Because of this if E* is not able to Launch E10 fast enough, I feel that most of the split dma's locals that are currently on 61.5 or 148 will be moved to a 110/119 spotbeam and to make room some smaller market DMA's currently on the 110/119 spotbeams will be relocated to 61.5, 148, 157, 105 or 121. Subs in these small DMA's will then need to either add a 2nd dish or upgrade to a SD to keep their locals, this will be the rout Charlie will go because it is the cheapest way. Once E10 is launched many of the SD locals and perhaps wing locals will be moved to one of the 110/119 spotbeam satellites, International channels will migrate to 121 and new HD National programing will go to 105, and local HD perhaps will end up on the wings (especially if E* buys V* ) possibly along with 85 and the new KuX band at 83/109/121.

 

[MikeD-C05]

Okay I give up ! I guess ya'll can't see my idea as being viable. But why else is this thread titled; "Superdish coming soon to many ?" I don't see it titled "Wing satellite dish coming to many". I think ya'll are missing the point of this entire thread. We are speculating that a Superdish will be coming to many in the future. Hello!

My whole point is that Charlie is a maverick and he does what he wants. The superdish mentioned in the title of this thread is the way I see him doing this. Splitting them over three satellites till they get the Echostar 10 sat up is the fastest way to get in compliance with the FCC with the minimal cost and minimal disruption to existing viewers.

Why do you think that they would have to do Superdish upgrades if they aren't requested by the existing customers? I can see the newer subscribers getting the Superdish but not the existing unless they requested it. Then if they do ,Charlie and Dish get a subscriber to commit to another year with locals and the top 60 .

I could also see moving some of the smaller locals to the side satellites till they get the Echostar 10 launched next years. But this effects some 36 markets with these split locals. I guess we will have to see what happens in the future but my bet is on the superdish with minimal moves of the lesser viewed channels to the 105 sat.

 

[larrystotler]

Here's the point:

Superdishes cost more to make and have installed. Only real reason that there are locals on the 105 is that AMC2 was not powerful enough to do HD. So, instead of allowing the inventory to sit, and instead of leaving a sat that they were leasing do nothing, they added locals to the 105. This took care of the current problem. Now, when they start moving the locals off of AMC15 to the new E*10, these subs will already have the ability to go HD without anything else, besides an HD receiver.

Now, since you feel that more subs will be getting SD's, then this may actually be the case. The 83/85/105/109/121 are all FSS sats, and each will need a superdish to receive. Now, the 83 and 85 may be able to go on 1 dish as well as the 105/109. On the DBS side, you have the 61.5/110/119/148/157. So you have 5 FSS sat locationa and 5 DBS location. You can use the Dish500 with the 110/119 & 148/157.

The new FSS slots give us more space, which could be used for more HD, Video on Demand, or 2 way internet. Using the SD's for locals is probably not what they are envisioning. And, having the slots spread out so far will cause them many headaches if you were to need more than 1 or 2 SDs.

 

[Chris Freeland]

Okay I give up ! I guess ya'll can't see my idea as being viable. But why else is this thread titled; "Superdish coming soon to many ?" I don't see it titled "Wing satellite dish coming to many". I think ya'll are missing the point of this entire thread. We are speculating that a Superdish will be coming to many in the future. Hello!

I just feel that this whole "SuperDish coming to many" is an incurect rumor and does not make economic since for E* to do this. I just beleive that if and when this new one dish law goes into effect that the FCC would force Charlie to upgrade everyone who subs to locals in a market where major locals were left on 110 or 119 and extra locals were moved to 105 or 121, not just new subs and those who requist the upgrade for a extra locals SD, this would be more costly to E*. Especialy since these extra locals are currently on the wings and many current subs already have a 2nd dish, if these locals are not moved to 110 and or 119 spotbeam it would be cheaper for E*to just add a 2nd dish for those subs and place the major locals in such a split DMA on 61.5 or 148.

My whole point is that Charlie is a maverick and he does what he wants. The superdish mentioned in the title of this thread is the way I see him doing this. Splitting them over three satellites till they get the Echostar 10 sat up is the fastest way to get in compliance with the FCC with the minimal cost and minimal disruption to existing viewers.

As I said above, the FCC will force all subs to upgrade if Charlie tries the shenaigans that you are suggesting he might try.

Why do you think that they would have to do Superdish upgrades if they aren't requested by the existing customers? I can see the newer subscribers getting the Superdish but not the existing unless they requested it. Then if they do ,Charlie and Dish get a subscriber to commit to another year with locals and the top 60 .

Because the FCC will force them to do so.

I could also see moving some of the smaller locals to the side satellites till they get the Echostar 10 launched next years. But this effects some 36 markets with these split locals. I guess we will have to see what happens in the future but my bet is on the superdish with minimal moves of the lesser viewed channels to the 105 sat.

I believe some current smaller markets on the 110 and 119 spotbeams will end up on the wings to make room to place the majority of those 36 split markets all on spotbeams. If any DMA that is currently on a spotbeam is forced to relocate to 105 or 121 it will be all of their locals because because this is how the FCC will enforce this new law this way, but it will only be a small number if any of the DMA's that will be forced to do this. I guess if you are in one of those current small dma's, the title of this thread may be true for them.

 

[mike123abc]

It is very likely that E10 will be up long before the requirement for single dish locals, last I saw Dish would have a year from when the new law went into effect. Dish will just have to move the wing stations to E10. This will cause them to not be able to add as many markets that they might have liked.

I seriously doubt that SuperDish will ever become a requirement for standard definition in large markets. In fact I would expect that Dish will move all the markets they can from SDish to E10. The fact that they have to move the wings in will probably leave some markets stranded on SD that Dish probably planned to move to 110.

All these other satellites could be used for HD LIL. It is quite possible to have a single dish under 1 meter to see 45 degrees of arc. These dishes are available today. So, it would be quite possible to have a single dish see from 83 to 121. Why does Dish not sell a dish like this today? Probably because it would cost more and there are very few customers that need both 105 and 121 (locals on 105 and internationals on 121 is the only reason at this time).

If Dish were to start putting NATIONAL HD channels on 105, people that wanted it could upgrade to SD105. Yes more will then require 121 and 105. It is possible that Dish could start releasing dishes that can see both 121 and 105. With the DP+44 switch they are ready for it. Combining with DP21 switches they could even get a wing and both SD locations (5 satellites total).

I suspect that needing internationals on SD121 could become the evil stepchild. I could see Dish taking the easy (cheaper) route and designing dishes that only see 2 FSS satellites at once. For example an 83/105, 85/105, 105/109 and 105/121. As long as you do not want 3 FSS satellites at once you can go with just one Dish. This would limit the arc to 22 degrees. If you want 105/121/+another you end up with 2 superdishes. This would let them make the dish smaller, perhaps only slightly larger than the current superdish.

 

[larrystotler]

You could also get the 83/85/105 or the 105/109/121 on the same dish. Now, if they go with that torrordial(sp?) dish, you can get more locations with a smaller dish. Someone somewhere had posted a picture of one that supposedly E* was planning to use if the merger had went through, so that may be what they have up their sleves in the long run. THe main advantage of the 83/85/105/109/121 is that they have all of the space where they only have part of the 61.5/110/119, so this limits them with the DBS setup.

 

[Stargazer]

Perhaps they need to get those blimps I heard about a while back to broadcast the locals into certain regions. That would free up lots of space for HD on the main satellites. Wouldn't the dishes also be smaller seeing how much closer the blimps would be compared to the satellite in space?

 

[Chris Freeland]

Once again I agree with Mike123abc, my scenario in above post's only would apply if E* does not get E10 launched in time and would be mostly temporally. Ultimately I suspect all National SD and possibly the current National HD channels will remain on 110/119 DBS as well as most SD locals. 105 will be for future National HD expansion, 121 eventually will have all the International channels, 61.5/148/157 DBS, 85 Ku-FSS and 83/109/121 KU-X and possibly 85/105/121 Ka will be for HD locals and possibly broadband. This would mean no one should need to see more then 4 orbital locations, which means most if not all subs except those who want their HD locals that are located at one of the DBS wing locations will need more then a Dish500 or some configuration of the SuperDish or a SuperDish+.

 

[Peter Parker]

blimps????????????????

 

[Greg Bimson]

Why do you think that they would have to do Superdish upgrades if they aren't requested by the existing customers? I can see the newer subscribers getting the Superdish but not the existing unless they requested it.

Mike, there is no "requesting". The bill pertaining to one-dish states:

`(4) NOTICE OF DISRUPTIONS- A carrier that is providing signals of a local television broadcast station in a local market under this section on the date of enactment of the Satellite Home Viewer Extension and Reauthorization Act of 2004 shall, not later than 270 days after such date of enactment, provide to the licensees for such stations and the carrier's subscribers in such local market a notice that displays prominently and conspicuously a clear statement of--

`(A) any reallocation of signals between different reception antennas and associated equipment that the carrier intends to make in order to comply with the requirements of this subsection;

`(B) the need, if any, for subscribers to obtain an additional reception antenna and associated equipment to receive such signals; and

`(C) any cessation of carriage or other material change in the carriage of signals as a consequence of the requirements of this paragraph.'.

If a market has the local channels moved from a side-slot to a SuperDish, Dish Network will then need to upgrade each subscriber in that market to a SuperDish. There won't be any thumbing the nose this time.

 

[Stargazer]

Yes, blimps. It was mentioned on the forums a while back that a company may use that for telephone, internet, and maybe video services. I wish I had a link

 

[wied]

Why does D* have more bandwidth than E*? Does E* not have more birds in the air?

 

[Peter Parker]

That would require something other than the stationary dish I have now. Ws thisa DBS comapny or someone else?

 

[Mr Tony]

Why does D* have more bandwidth than E*? Does E* not have more birds in the air?

E has 151 DMA's (sets of locals) on board
I dont know the exact number for D but its around 100 (I think)

 

[Greg Bimson]

Dish Network (E*) has more bandwidth. Speaking specifically about DBS licenses, Dish Network has 50 CONUS while DirecTV has 46. Dish Network also has quite a few non-CONUS licenses at 61.5, 148, and 157, while DirecTV is leasing about 12 transponders from Telesat Canada at the 72.5 slot, for delivery of another 24 markets.

Dish Network also has FSS space they are currently using to deliver locals via a SuperDish.

At this time, Dish Network is retransmitting locals for 151 DMA's. DirecTV will be at 130 markets by the middle of November. However, DirecTV's spot-beam satellites have a more efficient spot-beam pattern, which gives them an edge in percentage of transponder space used for local channel delivery.

However, DirecTV plans on using their SpaceWay satellites for HD delivery. This uses the Ka-band, and will provide the ability to retransmit most of the HD locals as well as some national locals, and these satellites will be within two degrees of DirecTV's main slot, so anyone that has DirecTV currently will still be able to see the HD satellites.

 

[mattb]

Dish Network (E*) has more bandwidth. Speaking specifically about DBS licenses, Dish Network has 50 CONUS while DirecTV has 46. Dish Network also has quite a few non-CONUS licenses at 61.5, 148, and 157, while DirecTV is leasing about 12 transponders from Telesat Canada at the 72.5 slot, for delivery of another 24 markets.

If only E* had planned their Spotbeam satellites as great as D* did, they would be WAY ahead of D* in locals in my opinion...

 

[larrystotler]

I thought that was the point of E10............

 

[Mr Tony]

E10 isnt up there yet