Retailer Chat News

[Guest]

Frustration...!!

Speaking as someone who lives in Sacramento, this is very frustrating. Correct me if I am wrong, but the way I understand this: (1) to get the "old HD" offerings, plus all the regular programming, I will still need to have two dishes (a Dish500 pointed at 110 and 119, and a second dish of some type pointed at 61.5 or 148); (2) For a year, I will not be able to get any of E*'s "new HD" offerings, because those will only be on 105, which I cannot get with any kind of Dish.

If I am right about this, why would I want to invest $1000 in a PVR921, or even $399 in an 811? My HD programming will be limited for a year, and before then D* will have their HD capacity up, and their HD Tivo unit out. I have been waiting for good enough programming to justify the tuner and extra dish investment since I got my HD TV 18 months ago (works GREAT with DVDs). Dish has had me on the line for the SuperDish and the 921 since last spring. But now, for those of us in the "105 exclusion zones," why stay with Dish if DirectTV comes thru? :evil:

 

[video62]

Interesting that Lansing, MI is a Superdish "Targeted Market" and yet Michigan is in the 'excluded area' for Superdish! What the &@#*&! Does this mean E* will be burning advertising money on Lansing radio stations for services they cannot recieve? :|

I see Dayton, OH listed as a "Targeted Market" but no mention of Columbus, OH whose locals begin (supposedly) tomorrow, Nov. 13th.

 

[angiodan]

Well, this just sucks. Here I am in South Florida, and I'm going to be SOL with Superdish. Man, what a series of disappointments with Dish lately.

So, any new HD if its not mirrored, will be unavailable to me. And even if they do mirror, I'm still looking at work and expense on my part. I had moved my 61.5 for Expressvu, and now it looks like I'll need a another dish to point at 61.5, plus switches, etc. just to get back.

What a drag!

 

[John Corn]

811 & 921 will be on December 1st, although some chipset problems may delay things with the 921. (Chipset problems this far in the game???)

What sort of chipsets problems? This sounds serious.

 

[rmoore3d]

I am starting to really worry that E* has no idea what they are doing. How can they talk about super dish for months as the ultimate solution for HD and then upon release they say sorry it will not work in 10 1\2 states?

 

[TheaterWizard]

Re: Frustration...!!

If I am right about this, why would I want to invest $1000 in a PVR921, or even $399 in an 811? My HD programming will be limited for a year, and before then D* will have their HD capacity up, and their HD Tivo unit out. I have been waiting for good enough programming to justify the tuner and extra dish investment since I got my HD TV 18 months ago (works GREAT with DVDs). Dish has had me on the line for the SuperDish and the 921 since last spring. But now, for those of us in the "105 exclusion zones," why stay with Dish if DirectTV comes thru? :evil:

Some of us spent $699 for a 6000 years ago to get one HD channel of HBO!!!!

It's been worth every penny now that I look back at it. If you keep waiting for the best product at the lowest price, you will never get what you truly want at the time. 8)

Cheez, how can you loose getting a 6000 for $99 even if you throw it away or sell it on ebay next year when you finally get the 921.

 

[Guest]

Scott,
I thought you and others might be interested in this.

If you click on the small thumbnail in the middle of the page, a footprint map will pop up.

http://www.ses-americom.com/satellites/amc-2.html

I believe Dish could make this bird work in those now excluded areas if people were willing to put up with a 90cm dish along side their Dish 500.

Seriously, there used to be a Canadian sat at 118.7 which had about a 39-40 EIRP for my area and my 90cm dish would pull in the fta channels. It was harder to locate but was very dependable once I locked on the signal. AMC2's northern and western fringe areas appear to have an estimated EIRP around 44.

I am guessing if a person in the fringe areas cannot wait for more HD programming, they could buy a 90cm dish, lnb and appropriate switchs to assemble their own do-it-yourself Superdish substitute.

Have a good one.

 

[Matt_Stevens]

The news from E* the last few days is just shocking. Total turnaround with both upcoming receivers. Chipset problems. More delays after promises it was finally happening. Part of the country that are populated my millions can't get the 105 bird. Not to mention serious problems even getting the Superdishes manufactured!

I just have to shake my head. Charlie, listen up and listen good: STRIKE A DEAL WITH TIVO! E* is simply unable to create their own receivers. Give them advanced features and they don't work. Your stuborn behaviour and pride is costing your company millions of dollars and tanking your shares. Suck it up and do the right thing.

 

[Mark Sorensen]

A few quick thoughts on SuperDISH…


- At this point, other than a some local channel areas, nobody is “missing” anything because they don’t have “SuperDISH”

- HD: Yes a single dish solution is probably an improvement over the 2 dish solution, in most cases… But sometimes there WILL BE cases where, because you do not have a single location where a single reflector can hit all (3) satellite locations, you’re still gunna need a 2 dish solution anyway.
o We see that today with DISH500.

- HD: Yes, the added HD channel capacity will be nice. But, I firmly believe that if SuperDISH were here today, we would not have anymore HD channels than we have today. We’re still sucking hard on a dry well for HD content. Superdish is not the bottleneck. And please leave out pre-digested (EG: upconverted) HD content... I'm talking about REAL HD content.....

 

[AppliedAggression]

Ok here are some screen shots from todays chats.

We got to get you a video capture card ...

Thanks for sharing.

JL

I didn't take the pictures they were sent to me.

Uaully I do capture everything, comes out much nicer looking.

I just got a bunch of shots from a 322 and again these are from someone taking a picture of their TV.

Care to share the 322 pictures Scott?

 

[wcswett]

- At this point, other than a some local channel areas, nobody is “missing” anything because they don’t have “SuperDISH”

My interpretation of "all new HD going on superdish", "no superdishes except to new locals", and "superdish won't reach everywhere" is that there will be no new HD on DISH until the new AMC-15 goes up late next year. That will be fine for Charlie since he is under pressure to raise revenue and locals are where the new subs are, not HD pre-eminence.

--- WCS

 

[rad]

[quote="wcswettMy interpretation of "all new HD going on superdish", "no superdishes except to new locals", and "superdish won't reach everywhere" is that there will be no new HD on DISH until the new AMC-15 goes up late next year. That will be fine for Charlie since he is under pressure to raise revenue and locals are where the new subs are, not HD pre-eminence.

--- WCS[/quote]

I don't know about that. If Charlie can get additional HD programming out there NOW (Starz-HD, Cinemax-HD, Bravo-HD) he might be able to pull some subscribers from D* or cable system that don't offer them. I'd also be willing to bet that his HD subscribers have a higher monthly bill then the non-HD subscribers

If he can get the 811 and 921 out, folks that spend $400 or $1,000 for those boxes won't be as quick to jump ship to another service since they've got a good chunk of change invested in hardware.

It would also be cheaper and faster to get these new HD services up since E* doesn't have to set up receiving centers in these cities, pay retransmission charges and backhaul the signals back to the uplink centers. For HD all he needs to do is uplink the signals that are already coming down to his uplink centers.

My point is if E* had executed their HD plans the way Charlie said they had hoped to in the confrence call yesterday they E* might have gotten a good bump from new HD customers at less cost then adding a bunch of LIL cities.

 

[Stargazer]

Dish does not want to roll out the SuperDish to anymore people than they need to except in the local markets until they launch their new satellites next year. Perhaps the new satellites would allow them to decrease the size of the SuperDish.

 

[Tahoerob]

My interpretation of "all new HD going on superdish", "no superdishes except to new locals", and "superdish won't reach everywhere" is that there will be no new HD on DISH until the new AMC-15 goes up late next year. That will be fine for Charlie since he is under pressure to raise revenue and locals are where the new subs are, not HD pre-eminence.

--- WCS

I think the first question to ask is: How many HD subscribers does Dish have now??
They are the first line to want a SuperDish ASAP with new HD programming.
The second question is how many brand NEW subscribers would need a SuperDish for HD?? If they had more HD content they could very well steal D* customers & attract new ones from cable.
Of course this does not include those who already get a SuperDish due to new locals coming online in their area.
The third aspect is they would need to have the SuperDish working correctly & have enough manufactured & ready to ship cross-country to supply the demand. No one wants to wait 4-6 weeks for an install.
Fourthly, how worried is Dish about an upcoming D* HD DVR scheduled for the first half of 2004?? Especially if they coincide with newer HD content.
And lastly there is Voom. The Ross Perot of the DBS contest!!! If their rollout of HD channels does go forward by 2/04 with 39 channels, then they will really steal the show. What they need is an announcement of an HD DVR for 2004. THat might keep me from getting a 921 & WAIT. I am already going for the $149 6000 this week.
I think the rollout of new HD channels would have to be planned with the newer HD boxes (811\921). I believe that it makes sense to wait on new HD channels to coincide with the 921 HD DVR. That would be newsworthy & worth a marketing blowout event.

The bottom line is: SHOW ME THE HD.
The HDTV nuts like us will go with who has the most to offer.

IMHO,
Robert

 

[Sean Mota]

....there is Voom. The Ross Perot of the DBS contest!!! If their rollout of HD channels does go forward by 2/04 with 39 channels, then they will really steal the show. What they need is an announcement of an HD DVR for 2004. THat might keep me from getting a 921 & WAIT. I am already going for the $149 6000 this week.
I think the rollout of new HD channels would have to be planned with the newer HD boxes (811\921). I believe that it makes sense to wait on new HD channels to coincide with the 921 HD DVR. That would be newsworthy & worth a marketing blowout event.

The bottom line is: SHOW ME THE HD.
The HDTV nuts like us will go with who has the most to offer.

IMHO,
Robert

Robert,

I agree completely. Voom is a curve that neither E* or D* will be able to sustain once they get their problems resolved and HD lineup ready by 2/04. Also, as you mentioned they need their HD DVR which they have started to announce already but will need to give more information...

E* right now does not look good... no 921 (until december or next year), superdish rollout looks like it will be slow and painful plus won't cover the entire U.S.

Personally, I think the key here is V*; if V* rolls out these 39 channels by 2/04, I can see V* getting a lot of subscribers....It will be too good to pass on specially with the channel line up I listed on the VOOM FORUM.

SHOW ME THE HD AND I WILL SHOW YOU MY $$$

 

[Guest]

Well, I can tell you for sure that the old primestar dish will pick up 105 in mid Michigan w/o rain fade. Maybe it's the new superdish design or that new subcribers wanting locals would require a "free" superdish and that for the next 6 months, installing them will be a pain; it's better for Dish to postpone this until after winter and then see where things are with the new satellite. I guess this new info explains why Traverse City, MI was taken off 105.

Interesting that Lansing, MI is a Superdish "Targeted Market" and yet Michigan is in the 'excluded area' for Superdish! What the &@#*&! Does this mean E* will be burning advertising money on Lansing radio stations for services they cannot recieve? :|

I see Dayton, OH listed as a "Targeted Market" but no mention of Columbus, OH whose locals begin (supposedly) tomorrow, Nov. 13th.

 

[wcswett]

My interpretation of "all new HD going on superdish", "no superdishes except to new locals", and "superdish won't reach everywhere" is that there will be no new HD on DISH until the new AMC-15 goes up late next year. That will be fine for Charlie since he is under pressure to raise revenue and locals are where the new subs are, not HD pre-eminence.

I think the first question to ask is: How many HD subscribers does Dish have now??

My guess would be less than 1% of, what is it now 8 million (?), suscribers.

The second question is how many brand NEW subscribers would need a SuperDish for HD?? If they had more HD content they could very well steal D* customers & attract new ones from cable.

Zero new subscribers need superdish for HD as there is no new HD content on 105. In my opinion, HD subscribers are a tough churn due to the huge investments in equipment (even more so with the new DVRs). Cable that has HD has HD locals, which DISH likely never will have.

Of course this does not include those who already get a SuperDish due to new locals coming online in their area.

My impression from the latest customer chat is that this is the primary target for new subs. HD has totally slipped away this year - no new channels and delayed hardware. The money is in new subs attracted by getting their locals, and selling those high-margin sports packages, which they also pumped on the chat.

how worried is Dish about an upcoming D* HD DVR scheduled for the first half of 2004?? Especially if they coincide with newer HD content.

They wanted to have their DVR out for Christmas, no doubt. Big disappointment and lost advantage. I don't see any new bandwidth for new HD on D* before at least next summer, so no additional competition there.

And lastly there is Voom. The Ross Perot of the DBS contest!!! If their rollout of HD channels does go forward by 2/04 with 39 channels, then they will really steal the show.

Voom is a train wreck in slow motion. DISH should buy it but Cablevision probably won't sell until it eats itself sometime around next fall. DISH doesn't have any coherent stated plan for post-105 use of 61.5 anyway.

I think the rollout of new HD channels would have to be planned with the newer HD boxes (811\921). I believe that it makes sense to wait on new HD channels to coincide with the 921 HD DVR. That would be newsworthy & worth a marketing blowout event.

I just don't see any new HD channels coming to DISH in the near future if they stick to the policy of "all new HD channels on superdish". Of course they've broken such policies before.

--- WCS

Q: Are those seven satellite dishes on your roof or do you just like HDTV?
A: Yes.

 

[SlicerMDM]

I don't see any new bandwidth for new HD on D* before at least next summer, so no additional competition there.

Why's that? DirecTV 7s launches Q1 2004. By shifting some locals to this new sat they could easily make room for additional HD content by spring.

 

[James Long]

Well, I can tell you for sure that the old primestar dish will pick up 105 in mid Michigan w/o rain fade. Maybe it's the new superdish design or that new subcribers wanting locals would require a "free" superdish and that for the next 6 months, installing them will be a pain; it's better for Dish to postpone this until after winter and then see where things are with the new satellite. I guess this new info explains why Traverse City, MI was taken off 105.

The Michigan line seems to be drawn on the DMAs. Grand-Rapids/Kalamazoo and Detroit are up on Dish500; Lansing and Flint-Saginaw are coming, but not soon. The big problem with Traverse City is just how far North it goes.

The error in their map is the two counties in the South Bend DMA. Those two counties will probably get SuperDish if LIL is ordered.

BTW: There is still quite a few who could care less about HD. I'd like to see solid figures on how many of Dish's 9 million customers have HD satelite receivers. Also the pricing of the HD pack makes it piecemeal. $3 for CBS if elegible, $10 for Discovery plus a couple of channels, and the movie channels included only with their movie package. Sure, StarzHD and CinemaxHD may go up, but you'll have to buy everything to watch it.

BTW2: The page to steal from Voom ...
Integrate a DTV tuner in your receiver. I want a 300 level receiver with an integrated tuner for OTA DTV. I don't need a HD 1080i output. Just give me one box to tune. I wish a NTSC tuner was in the current 301. It would be a cheap upgrade yet very useful.

JL

 

[styxfix]

$3 for CBS if elegible

CBS-HD if elegible is FREE.