Regional sports networks

[Bodo Fenrirsson]

If you had MLB Extra Innings(as a subscriber) with Directv,the games would also show up on RSNs(if you are talking about watchings games out of market). Dish Network doesn't have MLB Extra Innings,so the games are blacked on the RSNs,except for your local RSN. If you want to watch out of market games from where you live,then the best suggestion is to subscribe to mlb.tv or mlb.tv premium.

 

[dare2be]

I can answer your questions on why RSNs vary in the same area. It all depends on the providers contracts and the negotiated TV contract. They are not bound to carry RSNs, they either choose to or not. Many times rights will change after a carriage agreement is signed.

For example when Turner South became SportsSouth they picked up more Braves games. DirecTV agreed to pay the additional fee they wanted for those games, Dish didn't. So viewers in Braves territory didn't see them. Also in many cases teams "claim" territory outside their own markets. DirecTV provides RSNs in these extended areas, again Dish doesn't want to pay so you don't get them.

Thank you. Good explanation on the differences between providers carrying rights. However, I must point out that the TurnerSouth-SportSouth situation was a bad example of that, as SportsSouth was asking for more money BEFORE the existing carriage agreements expired. And those were games inside the market, not just games in outlying territories.

 

[ttomni6]

I can answer your questions on why RSNs vary in the same area. It all depends on the providers contracts and the negotiated TV contract. They are not bound to carry RSNs, they either choose to or not. Many times rights will change after a carriage agreement is signed.

For example when Turner South became SportsSouth they picked up more Braves games. DirecTV agreed to pay the additional fee they wanted for those games, Dish didn't. So viewers in Braves territory didn't see them. Also in many cases teams "claim" territory outside their own markets. DirecTV provides RSNs in these extended areas, again Dish doesn't want to pay so you don't get them.

Interesting. So what I'm getting from your response in the second paragraph is that this is all "team based" rather than based on the RSN channel itself.

So for example, here in Hawaii we are apparently "claimed" by southern California for RSN's. We receive FSSD, FSW, PRIME, CSBA, etc. On CSBA we get the baseball and basketball games that this channel carries in the clear. However, San Jose Sharks hockey is blacked out. If San Jose Sharks are playing on NHLN, we are blacked out both on NHLN and CSBA. Both DirectTV and Time Warner cable receive the games on the RSN. The same story for the Anaheim Ducks. I'm not especially interested in the California teams but when they are playing the teams I WANT to see, they are blacked out.

If I remember correctly, two years ago we received the Anaheim Ducks games in the clear, this past year we received the LA Kings instead.

When I called DISH about these blackouts several years ago, I was told that it was the leagues that determined what we saw. Now I'm understanding that we see which teams DISH wants to pay for.

BTW, and maybe this should be a different thread, but has anyone noticed that the Fox Sports RSN's have really poor quality signals on DISH but the Comcast sports nets are much higher quality? This is all SD I'm talking about BTW - we never receive RSN games in HD (I have AT250 as well as multisport).

 

[cpalmer2k]

Thank you. Good explanation on the differences between providers carrying rights. However, I must point out that the TurnerSouth-SportSouth situation was a bad example of that, as SportsSouth was asking for more money BEFORE the existing carriage agreements expired. And those were games inside the market, not just games in outlying territories.

Well I left out a part... in the metro Atlanta area Dish viewers got (and still do?) get those games on SportsSouth. Outside the immediate Atlanta area DirecTV viewers do, but Dish viewers don't. So it is the same scenario, DirecTV is willing to pay... Dish is not.

Interesting. So what I'm getting from your response in the second paragraph is that this is all "team based" rather than based on the RSN channel itself.

Correct... RSN's have "coverage areas", but teams also have claimed "territory" that sometimes stretches beyond RSN boundaries. A perfect example is my area. FSN South and SportSouth are our RSN's of record in S.C. Dish is willing to pay to show the Braves in the Atlanta Area, but not in my area... DirecTV pays for both. However the Asheville part of our market also gets FS Cincinnati (and Reds games on DirecTV). Much of NC is claimed "territory" by the Braves, Reds, and Nationals/Orioles. So those in the Charlotte DMA get FS South, SportsSouth (Braves games), FS Cincinnati (Reds Games), AND MASN (so they get Orioles and Nationals games).

Until Recently viewers in S.C didn't get Charlotte Bobcats games on DirecTV though, they were only on cable. So it goes both ways.

Hrm... I think I need to "move" to NC... lol

 

[osumike]

It got confusing for a while. He had Dish at one time and then Direct in OH and the RSN games were different. Now he is in WI with Dish and is definitely out of the coverage area for the Tigers.

Exactly. And damn! I awoke a sleeping giant on this subject! But yes, at the same address in NW Ohio, DirecTV showed every tigers game on Fox Detroit, and Dish blacks out every tigers game on Fox Detroit. WHY????? And my other question is will DirecTV show me the tigers games on Fox Detroit in Wisc? Dish does not..

 

[cpalmer2k]

Go to the DirecTV RSN finder and type in your current zip code. It will tell you what RSNs and teams you will get in your current area


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

 

[osumike]

Go to the DirecTV RSN finder and type in your current zip code. It will tell you what RSNs and teams you will get in your current area


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

GREAT.... Brewers, Bucks, Wild, Blackhawks. Ugh..

 

[dishcomm]

I guess I'd really like an answer from DIRT on this one, but maybe someone else knows. Why is it that Dish blacks out certain baseball games that DirecTV will show, on the same channel?? Examples: I am a Detroit Tigers fan. I used to live in NW Ohio, about an hour south of Detroit. I subscribed to Fox Detroit, which carries all the games. When I was a Dish subscriber, EVERY game on that channel was blacked out. I switched to DirecTV, and on the same channel, Fox Detroit, they would show every game. WHY?

So now I live in Wisconsin, cancelled direct, and signed up with Dish again. I have Fox Detroit here also, but again, EVERY game is "not available in my viewing area." WHY?

If I were a DirecTV customer here in Wisconsin, with Fox Detroit, would I be able to get the games here from them? If so, I'm cancelling dish asap.

DIRT???

It is not the provider which determines blackouts. it is the sports leagues...
It is up to each provider to have the proper codes so that unauthorized viewing does not take place.
Here is a link to the MLB territorial map.
http://www.bizofbaseball.com/images/MLB_Blackout_Map1000x733.gif
Here's a larger image
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/MLB_Blackout_Areas.png

 

[dishcomm]

I guess I'd really like an answer from DIRT on this one, but maybe someone else knows. Why is it that Dish blacks out certain baseball games that DirecTV will show, on the same channel?? Examples: I am a Detroit Tigers fan. I used to live in NW Ohio, about an hour south of Detroit. I subscribed to Fox Detroit, which carries all the games. When I was a Dish subscriber, EVERY game on that channel was blacked out. I switched to DirecTV, and on the same channel, Fox Detroit, they would show every game. WHY?

So now I live in Wisconsin, cancelled direct, and signed up with Dish again. I have Fox Detroit here also, but again, EVERY game is "not available in my viewing area." WHY?

If I were a DirecTV customer here in Wisconsin, with Fox Detroit, would I be able to get the games here from them? If so, I'm cancelling dish asap.

DIRT???

Update...According to the MLB team territory map, no part of Wisconsin is within the territory of the Detroit Tigers.
It does not matter if FOX Det is one of your local RSN's...The MLB decides the territories.
BTW, the Tigers DO claim northwestern Ohio as part of their territory. That's why you saw the Tigers games.
You can always sub to MLB.tv

 

[dishcomm]

In the future please use the game finder to find a game. Please let us know if it is not available and we can look into this further.

There number of tv viewers who do not understand the concept of pro sports blackout is quite large.
I think Dish should examine this map, consult with it's publisher to gain permission to distribute it to Dish customers.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/59/MLB_Blackout_Areas.png

 

[dishcomm]

They are. There is an extra cost involved in areas that have overlapping teams, so each provider can be different in those overlapping areas

Beg to differ. Those territories are what they are.
Providers cannot violate them.
Unless there is some secret deal that one provider has while others do not, that is.
In which case, I could see other providers discovering this sweetheart deal and screaming "ME TOO!!!!"
I can assure you, the member clubs protect their territories like a Grizzly sow hovers over her cubs.

 

[dishcomm]

as I posted to the same question in the DIrectv area

once you get outside of the "main" area of the RSN there is an additional fee the providers pay to carry it. (think extended area). I assume the "extended" starts/stops at the OH/MI border
Directv chose to
Dish took the cheap route and wont pay it

same thing in Duluth, MN. Both the Brewers and Twins claim the area (meanwhile across the river in Superior, WI its just the Brewers). Anywho Directv gives you both, dish only the Twins in Duluth

Where can the average person go to see and read the rules on these special deals? I've never heard of them.
Thanks

 

[dishcomm]

Right, but would someone in NW OH paying for multisport then be able to see non-blacked-out FSD games?

Whether or not one subs to the multisport pack is immaterial. If one resides within the territory of a team, those games when televised "should" be available. Now if FS Det is NOT part of your assigned RSN's , if you subbed ot the MSP, FS Det should be not blacking out the Tigers games.
I figure if a team claims your area as within its territorial boundaries, the team's RSN should be part of you local RSN's.
For example.
I reside in the territories of Braves, Nats, Reds and Orioles.
As such. FS South is a local RSN here.....Now The Reds are on FOX Cincy..That RSN is NOT part of the local RSN's here. However the games are assigned to the Sports Alt channels. I see them there.
And of course, MASN which carries the Nats and Orioles, for some reason is also a local RSN here. Weird....
I sub ot the MSP. So I can see the Reds on FS Cincy

 

[osumike]

Update...According to the MLB team territory map, no part of Wisconsin is within the territory of the Detroit Tigers.
It does not matter if FOX Det is one of your local RSN's...The MLB decides the territories.
BTW, the Tigers DO claim northwestern Ohio as part of their territory. That's why you saw the Tigers games.
You can always sub to MLB.tv

But that still doesn't explain, and I'm still not getting an answer to WHY IS IT THAT AT THE SAME ADDRESS, DIRECTV TELEVISED THE TIGERS, AND DISH BLACKED IT OUT? Again, same address, same channel, different providers. That tells me that DirecTV has (exclusive?) rights to televise the game, and Dish does not. And here's more; time Warner cable is the provider at that same address, and they won't show it either. Just doesn't make sense. That's kinda why I don't buy it that it just comes down to a "coverage map", or that team has "claimed that area"...or whatever

 

[dishcomm]

Well I left out a part... in the metro Atlanta area Dish viewers got (and still do?) get those games on SportsSouth. Outside the immediate Atlanta area DirecTV viewers do, but Dish viewers don't. So it is the same scenario, DirecTV is willing to pay... Dish is not.



Correct... RSN's have "coverage areas", but teams also have claimed "territory" that sometimes stretches beyond RSN boundaries. A perfect example is my area. FSN South and SportSouth are our RSN's of record in S.C. Dish is willing to pay to show the Braves in the Atlanta Area, but not in my area... DirecTV pays for both. However the Asheville part of our market also gets FS Cincinnati (and Reds games on DirecTV). Much of NC is claimed "territory" by the Braves, Reds, and Nationals/Orioles. So those in the Charlotte DMA get FS South, SportsSouth (Braves games), FS Cincinnati (Reds Games), AND MASN (so they get Orioles and Nationals games).

Until Recently viewers in S.C didn't get Charlotte Bobcats games on DirecTV though, they were only on cable. So it goes both ways.

Hrm... I think I need to "move" to NC... lol

Hmmm. I live in the Charlotte DMA, well outside the Atlanta metro area and I can watch every single Braves game.

 

[dishcomm]

But that still doesn't explain, and I'm still not getting an answer to WHY IS IT THAT AT THE SAME ADDRESS, DIRECTV TELEVISED THE TIGERS, AND DISH BLACKED IT OUT? Again, same address, same channel, different providers. That tells me that DirecTV has (exclusive?) rights to televise the game, and Dish does not. And here's more; time Warner cable is the provider at that same address, and they won't show it either. Just doesn't make sense. That's kinda why I don't buy it that it just comes down to a "coverage map", or that team has "claimed that area"...or whatever

I cannot answer that question. I can only guess that an error was occurring over at Directv that allowed the games to be in the clear.

 

[cpalmer2k]

Beg to differ. Those territories are what they are.
Providers cannot violate them.
Unless there is some secret deal that one provider has while others do not, that is.
In which case, I could see other providers discovering this sweetheart deal and screaming "ME TOO!!!!"
I can assure you, the member clubs protect their territories like a Grizzly sow hovers over her cubs.

The MLB "territory" claims you refer to on the map are just for blackout purposes. They're not the "home markets" of the teams.

To better understand territories vs broadcasts consider the NFL. Charlotte is the "home market" of the Panthers, meaning they always have to be on TV there. If they play on ESPN or NFL Network those games air on local Broadcast TV in Charlotte, and are blacked out on the cable networks. Other markets (Greensboro, Spartanburg, etc within 75 miles of the stadium) are also subject to the blackout rules and have to show all Panthers ROAD games... they always show home games too, but they are under no obligation to do so.

There are no "sweetheart" deals here.. RSN's are optional channels. Legally the satellite companies can offer these teams (and their RSN's) anywhere in their claimed "territory" they choose to, or choose not to... just like teams in the NFL "Secondary Markets" can decide whether they show the games or not. Back to my previous example... I live in upstate S.C, until the past year or so I couldn't see the Hornets games because DirecTV didn't carry the "FS Carolinas" feed that airs their games. I got nothing at... because the Hawks were blacked out in my area. The MLB situation we're talking about is no different. FS Carolinas is basically Fox Sports South, but with Hurricane Games & Hornets games instead of Atlanta Hawks & NHL games. In my area Charter cable only carries the "Carolinas" feed, so you don't see many of the normal FS South shows. Again this is their choice, because the RSN is optional.

Whether or not one subs to the multisport pack is immaterial. If one resides within the territory of a team, those games when televised "should" be available. Now if FS Det is NOT part of your assigned RSN's , if you subbed ot the MSP, FS Det should be not blacking out the Tigers games.
I figure if a team claims your area as within its territorial boundaries, the team's RSN should be part of you local RSN's.
For example.
I reside in the territories of Braves, Nats, Reds and Orioles.
As such. FS South is a local RSN here.....Now The Reds are on FOX Cincy..That RSN is NOT part of the local RSN's here. However the games are assigned to the Sports Alt channels. I see them there.
And of course, MASN which carries the Nats and Orioles, for some reason is also a local RSN here. Weird....
I sub ot the MSP. So I can see the Reds on FS Cincy

There is no "Must Carry" when it comes to RSN's. Each provider is free to decide which RSN's they carry, and to whom they offer them... within the boundaries of blackout rules of course.

For blackout purposes (again a separate thing here) the Orioles, Nationals, Braves and Reds claim at least part of North Carolina as their "territory" for blackout purposes. DirecTV has decided to offer these games (and the respective RSN's) to their viewers living in the North Carolina DMA where that applies. Checking Dish's Website they also seem to offer MASN in the Charlotte DMA, but don't list Fox Sports Cincinnati. DirecTV subscribers in the Charlotte DMA get Fox Sports South, SportsSouth, MASN, and if they subscribe to Premier or the Sports Pack they also receive FS Cincinnati. In exchange Dish & DirecTV must pay those RSN's a lower fee per subscriber in those areas than what they pay in their home market.


So to sum things up...

Fan IN "Claimed Territory" = Can see games if their provider pays the $$ on a per subscriber basis.
Fan OUTSIDE "Claimed Territory" = Blacked Out

I agree the entire thing is screwed up really... I can ONLY watch the Braves at my house, but a friend who literally lives 10 minutes away from me in NC can see the Braves, Reds, Orioles, or Nationals... Go Figure.

 

[cpalmer2k]

But that still doesn't explain, and I'm still not getting an answer to WHY IS IT THAT AT THE SAME ADDRESS, DIRECTV TELEVISED THE TIGERS, AND DISH BLACKED IT OUT? Again, same address, same channel, different providers. That tells me that DirecTV has (exclusive?) rights to televise the game, and Dish does not. And here's more; time Warner cable is the provider at that same address, and they won't show it either. Just doesn't make sense. That's kinda why I don't buy it that it just comes down to a "coverage map", or that team has "claimed that area"...or whatever

Can you give me the zip code where you got the Tigers on DirecTV, and Dish blacked it out? I'd love to look it up and answer your question. Just need the zip code...

 

[osu1991]

Beg to differ. Those territories are what they are.
Providers cannot violate them.
Unless there is some secret deal that one provider has while others do not, that is.
In which case, I could see other providers discovering this sweetheart deal and screaming "ME TOO!!!!"
I can assure you, the member clubs protect their territories like a Grizzly sow hovers over her cubs.

A very small cable provider owner that runs the system serving our lake community told me how their contract is. We are only in FSN Midwest coverage area for Cards games. They chose to pay just for those games, otherwise they could have declined as they are not in FSN Midwest's area and normally did not carry any other FSN Midwest programming. The Royals coverage worked the same way and they chose not to carry the Royals games.

 

[cpalmer2k]

A very small cable provider owner that runs the system serving our lake community told me how their contract is. We are only in FSN Midwest coverage area for Cards games. They chose to pay just for those games, otherwise they could have declined as they are not in FSN Midwest's area and normally did not carry any other FSN Midwest programming. The Royals coverage worked the same way and they chose not to carry the Royals games.

Exactly... "pay to play" is the name of they game. They have the OPTION to carry them, but also the RIGHT to decide whether to pay to do so..