Rebuilding an Prodelin/Andrew 1.8

[Dee_Ann]

Ok, so I tried to aim at 123w, Galaxy 18 to see if I could find the notorious FSTV.

I used the squealy meter and just aimed it around until I got a really strong signal..
I put my little cheapy handheld meter on it and blind scanned.
I found a bunch of channels that I can not find listed on The List or or Sathint.

I didn't find and of the channels listed for 123' just mysterious unlisted stuff.

How can I find out what I am pointed at?




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[Dee_Ann]

Ugh... Well that was not fun.

Turns out my 2x4 LNBF bracket was way more wonky than I thought it was. While I had the dish pointed in the general direction of 123, it was actually looking at 113w SatMex 6.
I was looking at all the lists for the channels that scanned in but I was only looking at lists that were within one or two places either side of 123w. I didn’t look far enough..
I finally figured it out when I searched for HWAZAN : on Sathint and it showed me a list of potentials, 113 being one. I checked THAT list out and sure enough, that’s what I was aimed at.

Arrrrgh! This 2x4 thing is NOT going to work, at all, not even a little bit.

I either need an original holder or I’ll have to have one made.

After an hour of messing with it I finally, finally hit 121. I got the little welcome to Dish 121 screen on my very crappy little meter.
So I figured now I was very close. I bumped it over a tiny tad and down a tiny tad and finally hit 123.

I connected it into my PC and scanned but did not find FSTV.. Oh well.

This was just an exercise in futility anyway. I have to stay outside with the dogs all day so I needed something to do.

I’m just not going to get anywhere with this, not going to be able to put it into full service until I get a legit, STURDY, proper holder.

 

[Bongu]

One thing that I noticed from your photos is that your LNB is aiming at the center of the dish. That is not where you will find the true focal point. Check the manuals. On the Prodelin 1.8 that I am working with(i replaced my frankenmount) I found an intact LNBF holder and it appears to be aiming at a point about 1/3 of the way up from the lower edge of the reflector. I am a bit further North than you are, but it appears that the elevation is way off from what I am used to seeing, even in the Dallas area.

 

[Dee_Ann]

One thing that I noticed from your photos is that your LNB is aiming at the center of the dish. That is not where you will find the true focal point. Check the manuals. On the Prodelin 1.8 that I am working with(i replaced my frankenmount) I found an intact LNBF holder and it appears to be aiming at a point about 1/3 of the way up from the lower edge of the reflector. I am a bit further North than you are, but it appears that the elevation is way off from what I am used to seeing, even in the Dallas area.

Hmmm. Now I’m confused.

I found this image in the manual, a drawing of an assembled dish.



As to the LNBF bracket problem, I received that fonky 3-way holder I bought.

It came with no directions at all so I spent DAYS trying to put it together in some way that made sense.
I finally found a picture on google of one that looked right.

Then I had to tear it all apart so I could try to adapt it to my dish.

I had no idea what I was doing but I spent a few or three days fiddling with a single bracket trying to find a way to mount it.

I finally came up with this (see pictures)

After having spent many hours studying pictures of an actual Prodelin factory bracket I think I have this one close to the position it should be to hit the focal point.
I found some little thing out of the back of my computer that had holes in them, I had been watching Pawn Stars and some guy brought in an erector set and I thought “Hey that’s what I need to adapt satellite stuff with!”
Then I remembered these things so I dug them out of a drawer and used them (easy to bend) to help hold the bracket in place, just for mock up. I can’t use these, they’re weak and will rust but it gives me a good idea of what direction I need to go with this.. So my dad said he can get me some metal strips that are much stronger but still able to be bent. I also need to do some bending on the arms as they are still mangled up and not right.

I haven’t tried to use this yet and the bolts are super loose but it’s because I was just trying this for looks. I think I’m getting really close to something I can actually use, at least until I can find a real one.

I’m sure I’ll end up changing this up a few more times and I don’t know yet what my dad will dig up for me to use in place of those computer things so I’m sure that’s likely to bring change to it as well.

After I get this single bracket in place then I can try to add the extras. I would like to hit two or three satellites if I could..

 

[Bongu]

I will take some photos of the arms and lnb clamp when I get to that dish again. I get to that install three times a week. I have my eye on some spare arms and may be able to get another real clamp and feedhorn. Keep on plugging away. You will get god results when you finally get the geometry right. Merry Christmas to you and the Satellite Guys folks!

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[nelson61]

I have a couple Andrew 1.8's.

I calculated where the focal point should be.

Then, I bought some 1/2 metal conduit and smashed the ends flat for the support arms.

Used hose clamps for the lnbs and jiggled things around until I maxed out the signal.

Been working fine for years.

 

[gabshere]

I have a couple Andrew 1.8's.
I calculated where the focal point should be.
Then, I bought some 1/2 metal conduit and smashed the ends flat for the support arms.
Used hose clamps for the lnbs and jiggled things around until I maxed out the signal.
Been working fine for years.

do you still have the measurments - thats what i think Bongu is hinting at above - - the way Dee Ann has it setup now it almost looks like a prime focus dish ( arms are all same length) i suspect her bottom arm is too long and left and right arms should be pointed more downward maybe 20 degrees more ( just a guess) oh and post a few pics if you have them

 

[Dee_Ann]

do you still have the measurments - thats what i think Bongu is hinting at above - - the way Dee Ann has it setup now it almost looks like a prime focus dish ( arms are all same length) i suspect her bottom arm is too long and left and right arms should be pointed more downward maybe 20 degrees more ( just a guess)

The arms I have are factory originals. They were badly mangled when I got them, I had to straighten them out (as best I could) but they are original Prodelin arms.

 

[gabshere]

The arms I have are factory originals. They were badly mangled when I got them, I had to straighten them out (as best I could) but they are original Prodelin arms.

Dee_Ann
can you get the whole are assembly to drop about 4 inches or from the side view about 20 degrees lower than you currently have and still maintain this temporary configuration ?

 

[Dee_Ann]

Dee_Ann
can you get the whole are assembly to drop about 4 inches or from the side view about 20 degrees lower than you currently have and still maintain this temporary configuration ?

I see no way to do that without chopping a length of the arm off.


I was looking at the photos of a bracket someone else posted, I can clearly read the part number on the bracket so I know it’s the right part.

In the photo the bracket is laying face down on the cement and all three tabs are touching the cement. They are equal in length. The tabs for the side arms are lined up with the center of the LNB.

Looking at the drawings in the manual, the center line of the LNB is aligned with the side arms.

In the drawing the dish face is perfectly vertical and like that you can see how the LNB is offset.

What I need to do is tip my dish vertical so I can take a photo and compare.


I did my best to bring the tabs of all three arms to as close to the same place and same distance around the LNB as an original would be. I also did my best to make sure the LNB is aimed along a straight line with the side arms as seen in the drawings.
But as I was trying to bend the stuff a bit I had a catastrophic breakage in the plastic LNB holder. Brand new it was..
That’s ok though as I have two more and I guess I can buy some more of them. Rather flimsy though.. I wish they were stronger. Ah, the joys of Chinese craftsmanship.

I was going to connect my meter and give it a go but I discovered that I had left the meter on and the battery was dead as a mackerel.. It’s on charge tonight.

Later today I’ll tip the dish vertical and get a photo of that and also see what I can get on my meter. I would like to see who it works on 83. I did want to use it for 129 (I also subscribe to Dish) but because of where it is in relation to some very annoying trees, there is no way I can see 129 with this dish at this spot. But, something just occurred to me, perhaps this dish can see 61 from where it is! Woot! Well, maybe, maybe not. Most likely it’s going to end up as an FTA dish. I just can’t decide yet..
And there’s also a chance it will likely have several LNB’s on it and maybe even serve dual duty as FTA and subscription..



edit: I found a photo I took from the side last week and I rotated it in a paint program to vertical and overlaid a grid so that you can see that the arms are angled for offset but in THIS picture the LNB is not aimed in the right place, it’s not in alignment with the arms. I have since them changed it up a lot. That was my initial 2x4 experiment that is now gone.

 

[gabshere]

ok that looks better for me lol comparing it from a front view (doesn't work) and i guess that how i was doing it.


I'm almost certain the feedhorn i have will fit your dish. but its ku only, but of course you could fit a C120 flanged lnb to it. ( that might be more expensive than making a lnbf holder yourself and using the lnbfs you have onhand.) post #20 has a picture but its nothing like the original for your dish.
it has several holes for mounting looks like it could be used for a 4 pole polar , three pole polar or a 3 pole offset

 

[Dee_Ann]

Gonna post a few pics from my phone then try to edit with my iPad.

Or, maybe not. Arregh!!

Posted with my iPhone 5 using the SatelliteGuys app

 

[Dee_Ann]

I hate working from my patio.

Ok so I took a photo of the dish but rotated the camera rather than rotate the image after the fact. I guess the end result is the same. Eh.

As for the tilt-o-meter. Is that right? It shows that zero is out towards the LNB and 90 is straight up.
Is that how it's supposed to be? (Go easy on me, I flunked geometry. Or whatever math that is. Angles and things.)
Every time I stick that thing to a dish I get utterly confused. I just don't get it.

And last, it looks like when I put the lower arm through the bottom of that bracket I lose the ability to add on those expander parts so it can see several satellites at once.

Back to the drawing board I guess.


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[Bongu]

Here are some photos of the 1.8 Prodelin I am working with.

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[Bongu]

I hate working from my patio.

--snip--

And last, it looks like when I put the lower arm through the bottom of that bracket I lose the ability to add on those expander parts so it can see several satellites at once.

Back to the drawing board I guess.

You can be creative in using a "beam clamp" on the LNB arms and bending threaded rod to get your other LNB doohickey into the sweet spot for multi satellite on that big Prodelin. search for my posts and you will still find pics of my frankenmount that actually worked pretty well. The only reason I went back to the original clamp was I found a replacement and got the orthos.

 

[Dee_Ann]

Here are some photos of the 1.8 Prodelin I am working with.

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That’s great!

Is there any way I could beg you to take some close up, daytime, hi-res photos of the LNBF bracket from multiple angles?
That would be soooo awesome to see one actually bolted up in use the way it is supposed to be!

Thanks!

 

[polgyver]

That’s great!

Is there any way I could beg you to take some close up, daytime, hi-res photos of the LNBF bracket from multiple angles?
That would be soooo awesome to see one actually bolted up in use the way it is supposed to be!

Thanks!

Hello, Dee_Ann,
The LNBF support which you made from 2 x 4, looked really good.
If you distrust the reliability of wood, so, maybe you could find and use similar chunk of plastic?
The "Q" you got for RT, given the size of dish, is rather small...
It seems the dish is not focused properly.
This could be checked with a few small mirrors, see my recent post.
Lowering the dish's elevation is needed, as well turning the azimuth to get the Sun in focus.
No need for 19 mirrors, just a few would do. Of course, sunny weather is needed (in short supply now )
Reflection from central mirror - on LNBF's face, and - possibly, a piece of cardboard around LNBF - if other mirrors reflect further away.
If the LNBF is aimed to upper side of this dish (as other members suggest), maybe you try to put something (eraser?) in the notch's outer side.
If other reflected spots are not on the LNBF, moving the cardboard back and forth can reveal the real focal spot.

 

[Dee_Ann]

Well it now looks like there is a chance I may have to change from KU to C as it appears that Luken is leaving 83w KU.
I hadn’t a committed plan for this dish but had given serious consideration to using it for my Dish 129 feed. Since I’m paying for Dish and have tree issues I figured I might as well throw the big stuff at the problem.

Thing is, I don’t want to have my 10’ dish wagging around a dozen times a day. In the past I had miserable luck with RTV on 87w. But if they are dropping their S2 that would be great.

As it is now I have two separate systems but they share the 10’ C-band dish, it has a dual output LNBF.

In my hobby/craft room/office, I have a PC with a hauppage tuner in it. It can not operate an HH KU dish. It just won’t do it.
It’s connected to an 8x1 switch and uses a 22khz switch too to tie my C-band dish and several smaller fixed KU dishes into the PC.


In my bedroom I have a MicroHD tuner and it is connected to a KU dish with an HH motor. This tuner has a disk on it and every day, twice a day it records Harvey Toons on PBJ at 2pm and 10:30pm. I’m hoarding cartoons.
On Saturday nights it also records Offbeat Cinema twice AND Harvey Toons.

The MicroHD also shares C-band with the other system. However it can not move the dish.

On Saturday night I watch MeTV on C-band all night so the dish sits on 101 and never moves.
The two systems operate independently of one another even though they have the C-band in common.

Now there will be THREE things going on on Saturday nights on two different satellites that I need to have, at the same time. I watch MeTV in realtime and watch the RTV/PBJ recordings later in the week.
But this won’t be possible anymore using a single C-band dish. I can’t get 87 and 101 at the same time on a single dish.

Another problem is that I can’t allow the PC to control the C-band dish via the G-box. The mytheater app is brain damaged and would just send random commands to the G-box and would send the dish off into La-La-Land and cause it to flop over (before I figured out about limit switches) For no apparent reason mytheater will move the dish at random whenever it feels like it without being told to do anything. So after countless of these events I just disconnected the G-box from the from the PC completely and use the remote control to operate it manually (which is never as it stays on 101)..

That means that there is nothing I can do about automated operation of the C-band dish. It’s essentially a fixed dish.

I rarely watch MeTV during the day but I watch it often at night. Moving it manually twice a day to record PBJ toons will be a hassle and on Saturdays it will be a problem.

I just don’t see how this will work for me. I have to have a second C-band dish if I want to keep doing what I’m doing.
So converting this thing to C-band is probably going to be my next move.
And that, is something I know nothing about.

Now I wish I had a way to go get one of those monster dishes I looked at a few years ago. But I’m sure they’ve been scrapped out by now.
Even if they haven’t been, I’m just not physically able anymore.

I suppose I should begin researching how to convert an offset ku dish into a C-band dish. I only have about 10 days left.

 

[Bongu]

I haven't forgotten about taking some more pictures Dee_Ann. The weather has NOT been very cooperative. Flat roof with PVC membrane makes things too challenging for me to get close enough to take pictures. I will get them when the weather cooperates. Supposed to be -10 here tonight. That is not the "feels like" temp.

If you are thinking of converting to a C-Band, check out the classifieds here, there is a great offset feedhorn there for C-band.

 

[Dee_Ann]

I haven't forgotten about taking some more pictures Dee_Ann. The weather has NOT been very cooperative. Flat roof with PVC membrane makes things too challenging for me to get close enough to take pictures. I will get them when the weather cooperates. Supposed to be -10 here tonight. That is not the "feels like" temp.

If you are thinking of converting to a C-Band, check out the classifieds here, there is a great offset feedhorn there for C-band.

No worries, no hurry. We’re frozen solid down here too. EVERYTHING is coated with a layer of ice and for us down here, it’s the great icepocolypse of the century. Everything has shut down, schools, stores, roads, you name it.
Everyone has lost their minds over a little ice. People here just don’t know how to deal with it. My yard is a frozen hell too. My dishes were iced over, I had a thick layer of ice on all the LNBF’s and the dishes too.
I was getting a lot of signal drop outs and pixelation, I guess the ice was somehow messing with the signal.
I filled a spray bottle with hot water and defrosted everything. It froze back right away but at least the new ice is so thin that it doesn’t bother anything. No new ice now but yesterday’s ice won’t melt until mid-day Saturday but then we get it all over again, but worse on Wednesday.

All week we are in a yo-yo pattern of ice and thaw, ice and thaw..

I’m not doing anything until we get a few days of 50-60f sunny days.

But for the photos, if/when you can get some, that would be much appreciated.

I wish I knew someone with a 3D printer. I could make a new one.

But with the impending deactivation of RTV on AMC9 I really need two C-band dishes.
It’s my thinking that because RTV on SES2 is still an S2 signal which I had a terrible time with in the past, I would be best off aiming my 10’ dish at it and converting the little 1.8 to C-band using a Titanium C1-PLL then point it at SES1 since the MeTV feed on there is pretty strong and stable.

Now I need to figure out how to attach a C-band LNBF to the Prodelin. Still, I am at a loss as to how to go about it.
I have no idea where to start if I go that route. Originally I had sort of decided I was going to use it for subscription Dish HD but as always, FTA stuff changes.
I really wish I had one more normal C-band dish but oh well.. I’ll make do with what I have.