Reasons why you should NOT get a 522.

[ChrisCoop]

Reasons why you should NOT get a 522. (Updated!)

I will be getting my third 522 sometime in the next week. But I'm sure it will have the same problems as the other two. I'm still under warranty so it will cost me nothing to try out the third unit. I figure I will give Dish and the 522 one more try, but to be honest with you, I have very little faith that Dish will come through for me. Here is a comprehensive (but by no means complete) list of the various problems I've experienced with my two 522s. I don't think anything on the list is really a complaint about intended features either (except for maybe the last one on the list). I don't see "no name based recording" as a bug or defect. I'm only listing what I see as software bugs or defects in hardware or design. The purpose of this thread isn't really to rant to other members. Most of you either experience these problems yourself and are upset about them, or love Dish so much that you turn a blind eye and pretend that ALL of the problems with this model don't really matter and that it works well "for the most part." My objective is to thoroughly detail the problems that I've experienced in hopes that some potential Dish customer will think twice (or three times) before ordering a 522. If you would like to add your problems to the thread, please do so. If you would like to refute some of the grievances I've listed, by all means, please do. If you want to threadcrap or tell me I'm just giving Dish a hard time (as I've actually seen others here do!?!) please keep your comments to yourself. I have nothing against Dish and have actually been quite happy with a number of things relating to Dish's service. However, in retrospect, if someone would have shown me a lengthy, detailed, honest list of what I was getting into, I probably would not have ordered a 522 (or Dish Network). And I probably would have been better off because of it. Some will have these problems, some won't. This list is limited to things I've experienced firsthand and does not include some of the other problems I've read about here and elsewhere.

• When watching live TV or a recorded event, sometimes it loses the ability to rewind. Pressing the rewind button or the 10 second skip back button either does nothing or causes the video to play in slow motion.

• When watching live TV or a recoded event, sometimes it loses the audio after returning to play from a pause. You must then fast forward or rewind to get the audio to come back.

• Sometimes when navigating the menus, the color will fade out then disappear and leave a black and white picture both in the menus and when you return to the video.

• When viewing recorded events, sometimes the time in the status bar is replaced with a series of random numbers. It makes it impossible to tell where you are or how much time is left in the program.

• When returning to play after rewinding or using the 10 second skip back, there is often a loud static/beep/popping noise. It is very loud and annoying.

• Since the most recent software update, the unit keeps forgetting the names of the favorites lists. Even the lists that I've never customized ("List 3," "List 4," etc.) are just blank and continually need to be renamed.

• The unit will occasionally reboot on its own at random times for no apparent reason. Right in the middle of a program, the picture just cuts out, the unit reboots, and you have to go through the whole "acquiring signal" process.

• If you have a timer set for a show that's listed on one favorites list, but you are on (or were on the last time you were watching TV) a different favorites list, the timer will launch and record off of the closest (and WRONG!) channel. Example: "Favorites Adam" has channels 1-100. "Favorites Bill" has channels 101-200. You have a timer set to record a show on channel 80 (list "Favorites Adam"), but the last time you were at the TV before turning it off, you were watching channels from "Favorites Bill." The timer will launch, be "stuck" on list "Favorites Bill" and will record the entire length of your timer off of channel 101. Why channel 101? Simply because it's "closest" to the channel the timer was actually supposed to record (channel 80). Not being able to switch favorites lists on its own is one thing, but there is absolutely NO reason why it should deliberately record the wrong thing that just happens to be on the "closest channel." FIXED

• Occasionally the guide will be missing show information for no apparent reason. I can view the guide right now and everything will be as it should, come back in five minutes and the same channels I was just looking at will display "No Info Available." Requires a reboot and the whole "acquiring signal/downloading guide" nonsense. Takes TV away for about five minutes while I wait for that nonsense to pass.

• Sometimes a DVR event timer will apparently start as scheduled (the red record light comes on) but the unit doesn't actually record anything. When this happens you can even change channels while the record light is on and you won't even be prompted about needing to switch to live mode. Nothing will be recorded.

• Sometimes while watching live TV or recorded events, the picture and sound will start to skip and stutter and hiccup. Fast forwarding or rewinding seems to get everything synched up back to normal. When that doesn't work you have to actually turn the tuner off and then back on again to get smooth playback.

• Sometimes the banner info on a recorded event displays incorrect show information. The DVR event screen for the event shows the correct length, description, and title info, but when watching the program the banner and/or info screen is incorrect.

• When "Record Plus" is enabled (Menu - 8 - 6 - Enable) the record light on the front of the unit will NOT come on while recording if you select "Options - Stop Recording Manually". The only way to see that you are in fact recording is to view the DVR Events screen, or try to change channels so you're prompted about "Switching To Live Mode," or pressing Record again so you're prompted with the "Recording In Progress" message. FIXED

• In the DVR Events/Help screen, it says that the DVR list can be sorted by pressing the corresponding sort number (1 for alpha/numeric, 2 for movies, etc.). This is incorrect. Pressing the numbers does nothing. FIXED

• When browsing the guide, and then pressing "info" for a program, after canceling the info window, the right side of the screen gets a black strip running the length of the screen that obviously should not be there. FIXED

• There are forced reboots every night if I want updated guide data. It's not like Dish releases software updates so often that it needs to check every night for updates. Why not once every week or two? Or every month? But disable nightly updates and you lose the ability to get daily updated guide data. The unit should get updated guide data on the fly, separate from checking for "important system updates," so it can update the guide without requiring a reboot every night. Sometimes I'm watching TV at 3:00 AM and get the prompt about system updates. Select "Yes" and I lose TV for five minutes. Select "No" and I miss out on new guide data. And for that matter, why can't it "check for updates" without a reboot? Like just check for the update, and if there is one; reboot. If there isn't one; update the guide (without rebooting) and leave me alone. I think they're just trying to force reboots on people because they know the reboot clears out the memory and "fixes" a lot of the problems these units have.

On the plus side, there is a bug that others have reported that my current unit does not seem to suffer from:

• I finally got around to picking up an optical cable and I can report that when playing through my receiver, the sound does not cut out as I've seen others report. The receiver locks on right away and does not lose the audio stream. This applies to DD shows as well as non-DD, recorded shows as well as live TV.

I don't know how many of my problems stem from hardware, software, or a combination of the two, but I should point out that both of my 522s were new (not refurbished). It was not a case of inheriting someone else's abuse or problems, or of a tech at the service department not doing his/her job. This long list of problems came from boxes straight off of Dish's line. Nice.

Some of the problems I've listed happen all of the time, some only occasionally. Some of them are only minor annoyances while some make the unit unusable. Taken as a whole, the problems I've experienced make the 522 more trouble than it's worth. If I would have known that I was going to have these problems (or knew that the possibility existed) I probably would have went with DirecTV and their Tivo unit. That's probably what I'm going to end up doing now anyways. But I wish it wasn't that way. I'll really miss a couple of channels that are only on Dish. And I like the fact that they're a little cheaper than DirecTV. But I've gotten used to watching TV through a DVR and I don't want to go back to watching without one. Unfortunately, Dish's DVR just doesn't work like it's supposed to (and let's be honest people, it never will). So please, if you're thinking of signing up for Dish to get a 522, or thinking of purchasing one when they become available to existing customers soon, please think again. If your experience is anything like mine, you will end up very, very frustrated and disappointed.

EDIT/UPDATE #1: Please see my posts on page four (while in linear mode) of this thread for an update. It should start here: http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?postid=144119#post144119

EDIT/UPDATE #2: Please see my post on page five (while in linear mode) of this thread for an update. It should start here: http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?postid=152210#post152210

EDIT/UPDATE #3: Please see my posts on page six (while in linear mode) of this thread for an update. It should start here: http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?postid=153084#post153084

 

[Bizzach]

You can't say it "never will" operate like it's "supposed to." That's why there are updates!

Take everything said above with a grain of salt. There's just one pissed-off Dish customer. On the other hand, *I* am a satisfied customer, so it balances out.

Most of the problems that he said up there do actually exist, but 95% of the time, the unit operates wonderfully. Sure, some things are annoying, but not enough to dump Dish or write a scathing report.

Just be aware that this is technology, people! You just have to be patient with it sometimes! It's like buying a new car - there are little things that are annoying, and it might even break down (sh*t happens!), but you still like your new car!

 

[iammike]

If you don't need to view programs on two TV's at once, perhaps a 721 would be a better choice than the 522. I've only had mine for a few weeks now, but the only problem I've experienced (just a few times) from those listed is the sound dropping out after pressing fast forward or skip ahead. I can usually just pause and unpause and the sound comes back. I think the 721 functionality is pretty similar, with the exception of the two tv functionality.

Just a thought.

 

[maximum]

I've only experienced a few of the problems described. Yes, this box is pretty buggy and I hope Dish can get a handle on the bugs soon.
I've read where some people complain that they can only lease the 522 from Dish instead of buy one. Based on the technical problems it has, I wouldn't want to "own" the box anyway. The nice thing about the Digital Home Advantage plan is that if I ever get sick and tired of the gliches I can always stop my service and return the box without a penalty fee.

I've only noticed the color fading recently but it always goes away when I return to full screen video. Wonder if it has something to do with the latest sofware version.

Hope your third one's the charm or at least solves the problems that make it unusable. Good luck.

 

[Toph]

The black and white glitch happened to me for the first time last night. I would guess it is something in L168. Did this happen to anyone in a previous version?

 

[Cascade]

New customer with a 522.
TV2 stopped responding, stuck at "Press select to continue"
Tech seemed to think that it was the UHF remote however when it did work whilst I was browsing the guide it'd suddenly give me the program info for a random channel.

That's just one of many reasons I'm sticking to my ReplayTV - I'm not beta testing that.

 

[maximum]

New customer with a 522.
TV2 stopped responding, stuck at "Press select to continue"
Tech seemed to think that it was the UHF remote however when it did work whilst I was browsing the guide it'd suddenly give me the program info for a random channel.

When I first had my 522 installed it was having the same problem with the TV2 remote. If I used the remote in the same room as the 522 there was no problem. So I extended the UHF antenna with a 6' coax cable so it sits on top of my entertainment center. The TV2 remote works fine from any room in the house now.

 

[itsonthedish]

Found my first glitch... when I was fast forwarding through a program and stopped ffwding... the sound cut out on me and I had to rewind it to the last place I started ffwding to get the sound back.

 

[ChrisCoop]

You can't say it "never will" operate like it's "supposed to." That's why there are updates!

Take everything said above with a grain of salt. There's just one pissed-off Dish customer. On the other hand, *I* am a satisfied customer, so it balances out.

Most of the problems that he said up there do actually exist, but 95% of the time, the unit operates wonderfully. Sure, some things are annoying, but not enough to dump Dish or write a scathing report.

Just be aware that this is technology, people! You just have to be patient with it sometimes! It's like buying a new car - there are little things that are annoying, and it might even break down (sh*t happens!), but you still like your new car!

Wow, we differ on so many points that I almost don't even know where to start. If my new car was not working the way it was supposed to, I would NOT "still like it." I would feel frustrated, and angry, and cheated. And not only would I voice my grievances every chance I got, I would explore my options and see what remedies were available to me. It's actually quite telling that you chose a new car for your analogy. Seeing as how most new cars today are also plagued with problems right off of the line. When did we become so complacent and accepting of crappy products in this country? It's amazing what corporations and apologists, like the ones that post here, are doing to try and get people to accept substandard everything in today's world.

Bizzach, you are an active member of this community. You visit here regularly and have no doubt read many, many posts and threads where people have documented valid complaints about the 522. For you to dismiss my long laundry list of complaints as the ramblings of "just one pissed-off Dish customer" is not only unfair, it's disingenuous. You know that these problems exist. And while they may not be that severe on your unit, you are no doubt also aware that they are severe on many other units. Mine included. Even the tone of your reply makes me scratch my head. It's as if I did something wrong by starting a thread that documents the problems I've experienced. Not only is it my right to start such a thread, I think it's sort of my responsibility. Prospective Dish customers who are going to get a 522 deserve to know what they are, or at least might be, in for. I wish someone would have told me before I went through all of this hassle and headache.

And again, I must point out that many of the problems I've outlined render the unit unusable. This is not a case of someone complaining for no good reason. I fancy myself a tech-savvy person. I can live with a software bug or a quirk here and there. But when the flaws render the unit inoperable or substantively different than what was advertised, I have no choice but to speak up and make others aware.

And updates are NOT meant to resolve issues stemming from software that was poorly written from the ground up. You greatly overestimate the "power" of Dish's software updates. Most of the problems I've outlined have existed since the 522 was launched. There have been several updates in that time. Update after update, why are the same problems still present? As a matter of fact, if you do a search on this very forum, you will find that every software update generally creates more problems than it solves. The latest update (L168) being no exception.

I encourage all prospective 522 customers and those who are interested in the problems with Dish's DVR software to visit the following link for a thorough discussion of Dish software and updates:

When Good Design = Bad Product​

​

iammike, thank you very much for your suggestion. Unfortunately, we do need (want) the DVR features on two different TVs at once. Also, we are subscribers under the DHA plan, so laying out several hundreds of dollars for the model you mentioned is just not something we would be interested in.

Toph, both of my 522s had the black and white problem long before the L168 update. I first noticed it months ago. Sorry.

 

[mrschwarz]

This was a great article. This should be required reading for anyone who designs or write software for a living.

 

[Cascade]

When I first had my 522 installed it was having the same problem with the TV2 remote. If I used the remote in the same room as the 522 there was no problem. So I extended the UHF antenna with a 6' coax cable so it sits on top of my entertainment center. The TV2 remote works fine from any room in the house now.

I thought it may be a weak signal until I tried the remote a couple of inches away from the antenna, still no-go.

 

[Bizzach]

I'm sorry Chris. I don't want to fight.
I was simply trying to let a prospective 522 owner that not EVERYONE hates their box.

You do make good points, and your post was well written. I'll back off on this thread...

 

[pitbull2]

I have only had a 522 for just over a month and I have experienced NONE of the problems listed. I'm not saying that my 522 has been perfect because there have been times that I have set timers and nothing was recorded (it hasn't happend enough for me to try and figure out why yet). But overall, I would recommend the 522 to anyone that is considering Dish. It seems to me that the problems listed are only happening under specific situations since they are not being experienced by everyone. Most people don't actively go looking for flaws in a poduct. It would be in Dish's best interest, however, to track down and solve these issues and make all of their customers happy.

 

[Sapient]

I've had mine now for a few months, and I have experienced only a couple of the most trivial problems (loss of color on the PRV Recordings screen and an occasional 1-2 second sound drop). While I would rather have no problems, I think what I get for the amount I pay is exceptional. With the channels I want and get, my service is at least $5/month cheaper than any other option, so I consider my use of the 522 to be essentially free.

 

[maximum]

I encourage all prospective 522 customers and those who are interested in the problems with Dish's DVR software to visit the following link for a thorough discussion of Dish software and updates:

When Good Design = Bad Product​

​

Good article, but no wonder the author is so disgusted with Dish's DVR receivers -- He's a Mac user. We Windows users are like the blind man's dog (ya have to read the article). We think re-booting is just a normal process of using the system.

In defense of Dish's developers, I'll bet sloppy software and hardware gets out the door due more to pressure from management rather than their inability to create reliable systems. If it's like where I work, management is more interested in speed to market and they figure that faster releases of new features is more important than reliability -- that's customer support's problem.

One thing to consider on your quest for a problem-free system. Yes, it is possible to make a bug free system but you won't like how long it would take to develop and how much it will cost you. Anything is possible, given enough time and money.

 

[ignition]

Maximum said:

"no wonder the author is so disgusted with Dish's DVR receivers -- He's a Mac user"

Living in the San Francisco Bay Area, this explains it all.

I totally agree with Bizzach, But I am not as nice as he.

Contrary to ChrisCoop's assertion, it clear to me his two screeds ARE rants about essentially niggling problems which have been, are being and/or will be resolved. I only know 3 other 522 owners in the Bay area, and like me, none of them have problems. But out of a the reported tens of thousands 522's installed in the last quarter by Dish, there has been no discernible hue and cry by Dish customers demanding that they be taken out.

Echostar recently added its tenth million mark customer, and added over 300,000 new customers in the last quarter (thousands of whom chose the 522).

Compiling a list of your complaints for resolution is one thing. However you stated:

"My objective is to thoroughly detail the problems that I've experienced in hopes that some potential Dish customer will think twice (or three times) before ordering a 522."

I would hope the purpose of this forum is not to provide a sounding board for cranky perfectionists or others with commercial agendas. It seems to me presumptuous for ChristCoop to think others should think twice about getting a 522, when tens of thousands do not share his experience, or his demands for immediate software perfection.

Wallstreet journal financials on EchoStar indicated it now costs Dish over $600.00 to place each 522 in a new subscriber's home. Probably more in ChrisCoop's case.

I for one am very grateful to Dish that I have a satisfactory 522 DVR, and can enjoy it now, even if I have to wait for software improvements.

 

[ChrisCoop]

Bizzach, no fighting and no hard feelings. I enjoy reading your posts and I'm glad (no sarcasm) that you are happy with your 522. Peace, brother.

I have only had a 522 for just over a month and I have experienced NONE of the problems listed. (emphasis added)

I'm not saying that my 522 has been perfect because there have been times that I have set timers and nothing was recorded...(emphasis added)

I did list that as a problem. Please see my 10th bullet.

Most people don't actively go looking for flaws in a poduct.

Maybe they should. It would end up elevating the quality of products for all of us. Imagine if every DVR customer called Dish and pissed and moaned when a timer launched but didn't actually record anything! I bet if that happened Dish might actually take these matters seriously. You said there were times when you set timers but they didn't record anything. I don't mean to pick on you, but how can you just accept that? How can you come on a message board (where prospective customers will turn for information) and praise a product that, by your own admission, does not consistently work the way it's supposed to? Why so complacent? I just don't get it.

I think maximum hit the nail on the head. It's like we've become conditioned to just accept these things. Guide not working right? Reboot. Recordings disappear? Reboot it. Oh, you lost the ability to rewind recordings? No problem, just reboot it. Audio disappeared? Yeah, that happens, just fast forward or rewind some...it should come back eventually. For almost every single defect that should have been addressed by Dish long ago, savvy users have a "solution" or workaround. I would laugh if it wasn't so sad.

One thing to consider on your quest for a problem-free system. Yes, it is possible to make a bug free system but you won't like how long it would take to develop and how much it will cost you.

I know that makes sense as a general rule, but I have to tell you, I've been reading various forums about the DirecTivo unit and the number and scope of complaints are FAR less than what I see for the Dish DVRs. I know that really pisses off people in this forum, but it shouldn't. I think too many people are mad at themselves for sticking by an inferior product, and instead of admitting the truth they turn that anger outwards and try to give Tivo a bum rap. While the DirecTV/Tivo unit may have its drawbacks, it appears that the units and software are, for the most part, rock solid. There's no good reason why Dish's DVRs can't be the same way. I love the little guy, too. But Dish just signed its 10 millionth customer. They are a multi-billion dollar corporation. They are not the "little guys." We are.

 

[shaun-ohio]

doggone, i am getting mine installed on july 5th, im glad i didnt buy it and am on the home digital plan that dish now offers with no commitments.

 

[stratguy]

In my opinion there are 2 very simple solutions to this problem.
1. Send the unit back and buy a PVR that suites your needs of course that would cost you cash.
2. Keep the 522 which they gave you and wait until the upgrades fix all problems.

Now to me it is pretty simple

Bob

 

[Bizzach]

Thanks to all of you guys who support me on this. I'm glad others feel the same way as I do!
Sure, I don't have a $10,000 plasma TV or home theater system, so maybe I'm just used to getting what I pay for... in this case, it's VERY little! I was talking to a co-worker today about this thread. He has a DirecTivo, and while he's very happy with it, he totally understands where I'm coming from. Different strokes for different folks!

If you want an electronic item that'll perform 100% right out of the box, you should go buy a new plasma TV and then complain to Samsung/Philips/Sony/whoever about EVERY single little bug it might have. Like I said, if I were paying that much for a new piece of technology, I'd want it to work beautifully. But in this case, all things considered, I'm happy with Dish and with the 522. 'Nuff said.

This has been a great thread! Thanks for the heated discussion, and again, thanks to all the Dish'ers out there who put up with the bugs - knowing full well they'll be resolved in the short future!