Really close to do it...considering move from DTV to Dish

[dishrich]

OK, I'll bite. How does the Tivo tune the SDV channels without a Tuning Adapter?

Because Comcast does NOT use SDV - period...NEVER has. Why do you think their HD lineups are some of the most skimpy of any cable systems...
As I mentioned, Comcast decided early on to forgo SDV - & it's inherent issues - & is eventually going to migrate at least HD channels to IP transmission, which their X1 platform is already IP capable. Unfortunately, nobody knows if this will spell the end of being able to use Tivo's (for HD) on Comcast...

 

[osu1991]

The problem with Comcast is the converting of all 1080i HD channels to low bit rate 720p mp4. Might not matter as much if they used a decent bitrate but from the long thread on AVS that is not the case.

 

[navychop]

1080i 30 uses not much more than 720p 60.

Of course, if you throw in bit starving....

 

[Jim5506]

1080p24 is even lower.

So logic should have dictated the standards would be 720p60 and 1080p24, but in a concession to CRT interlacing...what is ATSC 3.0?

 

[navychop]

An abomination!

ATSC 3 brings higher compression to OTA signals. It works better with mobile devices and allows UHD signals to be transmitted. It uses IP so some tailoring of ads (snooping) to you is possible. It is totally incompatible with the current system, ATSC 1.

It is currently voluntary, and there is no mandate to include such tuners in TVs or STBs. But with the reduced bandwidth allocated to OTA TV signals, it may well be widely adopted, eventually.

It does offer some new features. I suggest Wikipedia or ATSC.org for more info.

You can't buy an ATSC 3 equipped but if consumer gear today. Maybe in a year.

 

[navychop]

I've edited the above so much, I decided to add a new post.

ATSC 3 uses HEVC, H.265, and is twice as efficient as what is used today. Sadly, like the rest of the world, HDR and WCG are not quite finalized, not quite ready for the real world.

It supports resolutions up to 8192x4320. It breaks with 8VSB and moves to OFDM.

It is actually in some use in Korea. They intend to broadcast the 2018 Olympics in ATSC 3. LG sells some ATSC sets there.

ATSC 3 increases "security" to some extent by adding digital watermarks. This identifies the copyright owner.

ATSC 2 never went anywhere. It would have been backwards compatible with ATSC 1.

 

[Bobby]

The repack will finish by May 2020. ATSC-3 will be important by then because many stations will be sharing frequencies. You may very well find something like ABC and CBS on the same channel. When you add the sub-channels they already have on those stations you may very well see 20 channels per frequency, or more. They need ATSC-3 to accomplish that and still give you a reasonable picture.

 

[ncted]

The repack will finish by May 2020. ATSC-3 will be important by then because many stations will be sharing frequencies. You may very well find something like ABC and CBS on the same channel. When you add the sub-channels they already have on those stations you may very well see 20 channels per frequency, or more. They need ATSC-3 to accomplish that and still give you a reasonable picture.

"reasonable"

 

[Rolling Joe]

1080i 30 uses not much more than 720p 60.

Of course, if you throw in bit starving....

So, if you throw in bit starving, does this have anything to do with the motion juddering I'm seeing on the 30 fps content on Dish channels like AMC and USA (among others)?

 

[navychop]

You need ATSC 3 tuners to accomplish that.

Neither the chicken nor the egg came first. The fox did!

 

[Tony S]

So, if you throw in bit starving, does this have anything to do with the motion juddering I'm seeing on the 30 fps content on Dish channels like AMC and USA (among others)?

Most of the motion juddering is caused by programs originally shot at 24fps that are not converted to 30fps properly (I see it all the time). If the show was originally recorded at 30fps, there shouldn't be any juddering.

 

[Bruce]

The problem with Comcast is the converting of all 1080i HD channels to low bit rate 720p mp4.

Yep and it looks terrible.

While I was doing the free trial for Vue and still had Comcast, i kept switching the inputs on my receiver for the same channel and content, I was amazed that Vue looked so much better since it is 720P also, the Comcast picture looks washed out with no fine detail while Vue looks a lot sharper.with the detail.

 

[Rolling Joe]

Most of the motion juddering is caused by programs originally shot at 24fps that are not converted to 30fps properly (I see it all the time). If the show was originally recorded at 30fps, there shouldn't be any juddering.

I see it all the time as well. Sunday night's episode of "Fear The Walking Dead" on AMC was pretty much unwatchable for me.

On the other hand, over on my Bell TV subscription, "Fear" was completely free of motion juddering. If I'm not seeing it on a different feed, it can't be the conversion. And it's not my H3, as I'm on my second one, with no improvement.

I hope those encoder upgrades Scott mentioned on another thread result in less of it.

 

[Claude Greiner]

If Comcast goes Ip I'm sure TiVo will come up with a new dvr to support it. I don't mind spending money on a new DVR

 

[lparsons21]

If Comcast goes Ip I'm sure TiVo will come up with a new dvr to support it. I don't mind spending money on a new DVR

I wouldn't bet on that. Tivo isn't on the best track these days with their hardware. More and more the cable companies are buying Tivo software powered boxes not produced by Tivo. Much discussion about Tivo's future in the Tivo forums.

 

[navychop]

Yes. It's been mentioned here the likelihood of TiVO getting out of the hardware business. But at the least, I'd expect them to offer s/w support for IP. And later, ATSC 3.

 

[ncted]

I see it all the time as well. Sunday night's episode of "Fear The Walking Dead" on AMC was pretty much unwatchable for me.

On the other hand, over on my Bell TV subscription, "Fear" was completely free of motion juddering. If I'm not seeing it on a different feed, it can't be the conversion. And it's not my H3, as I'm on my second one, with no improvement.

I hope those encoder upgrades Scott mentioned on another thread result in less of it.

Huh. I noticed judder on a number of cable channels when I first got DirecTV back in 2016. I assumed it was just a mpeg4 thing as I had been primarily using OTA for the previous two years. It makes sense that content filed in 24 fps and then converted to 30 fps would have some judder if they don't intentionally compensate for it. The question is, why aren't they compensating for it?

 

[Rolling Joe]

Huh. I noticed judder on a number of cable channels when I first got DirecTV back in 2016. I assumed it was just a mpeg4 thing as I had been primarily using OTA for the previous two years. It makes sense that content filed in 24 fps and then converted to 30 fps would have some judder if they don't intentionally compensate for it. The question is, why aren't they compensating for it?

This motion judder began about eight months ago. Perhaps compensating for it would require adding bandwidth they don't have or are unwilling to use. Who knows? I just finished watching the first two episodes of "Top of the lake: China Girl" on Sundance. Severe judder in nearly every scene. Completely unacceptable.

If the OP of this thread hasn't taken the plunge yet, he might want to reconsider.

 

[ncted]

This motion judder began about eight months ago. Perhaps compensating for it would require adding bandwidth they don't have or are unwilling to use. Who knows? I just finished watching the first two episodes of "Top of the lake: China Girl" on Sundance. Severe judder in nearly every scene. Completely unacceptable.

If the OP of this thread hasn't taken the plunge yet, he might want to reconsider.

Interesting. I started watching that last night. I didn't see any judder, but I am on EA, so I am not watching the same signal you are.

 

[Rolling Joe]

Interesting. I started watching that last night. I didn't see any judder, but I am on EA, so I am not watching the same signal you are.

Assuming encoders are the cause, maybe they have a different set for the EA. Meanwhile, on FX I see no judder. Last night's AHS: Cult was judder free.