Random Thoughts

[salsadancer7]

There is one thing that can bring a sport to it's knees...when the public thinks games are fixed. Steroids, violence, sex scandals, drugs, and many other things are all bad, but they don't directly affect the integrity of the game the same way game fixing does.

If the public doesn't think a game is on the up and up, that everyone is playing to win, and is being impartially refereed, you don't have a sport anymore. That's exactly what we all love about sports...the uncertainty of it all. The idea that perhaps one day the New York Rangers will actually win a game again.

Players gambling on games threatens the integrity of the games itself. Players taking steroids is bad, wrong, call it whatever you like. But at least the players are still trying to win.


Sandra

Excellent post!:up

 

[cosmo_kramer]

There is one thing that can bring a sport to it's knees...when the public thinks games are fixed. Steroids, violence, sex scandals, drugs, and many other things are all bad, but they don't directly affect the integrity of the game the same way game fixing does.

If the public doesn't think a game is on the up and up, that everyone is playing to win, and is being impartially refereed, you don't have a sport anymore. That's exactly what we all love about sports...the uncertainty of it all. The idea that perhaps one day the New York Rangers will actually win a game again.

Players gambling on games threatens the integrity of the games itself. Players taking steroids is bad, wrong, call it whatever you like. But at least the players are still trying to win.

Apparently you didn't read my whole post. The rest of it that you didn't quote argues a comparison of Rose's actions against PED users from a prior post, not whether gambling by athletes is proper or not...

 

[SandraC]

Apparently you didn't read my whole post. The rest of it that you didn't quote argues a comparison of Rose's actions against PED users from a prior post, not whether gambling by athletes is proper or not...

I'm not exactly sure what you mean in this post. My post was to disagree with your point that gambling on baseball is nowhere near as bad as using PED's. My post clearly says why I feel gambling is far worse.


Sandra

 

[cybok0]

I disagree. While I’m not condoning gambling, but taken in the context of Rose’s gambling on baseball, it is no where near as bad as the PED scandal is, even at this point. Pete Rose’s sins pale in comparison to what these players have done. He bet on baseball because he had a gambling problem, not because he was involved in rigging games. It hasn’t been proven that he had any influence in determining the outcomes of these games in a negative way that he would benefit from.

Again, I’m not saying what Rose did was right, but he never bet against the Reds, and another sign that he had a problem was the fact that overall he lost more than he won, even with all his “inside information”.



Was Pete Rose a Good Gambler? - Economics Blog - Zubin Jelveh - Odd Numbers - Portfolio.com

I feel that players on PEDs have done more to affect the results on the field than any gambling scandal has, or probably ever could. The actions of these players has probably affected post-season awards, player salaries, and who knows, maybe even pennant races.

As long as the player or manager/coach isn't betting on his team to lose, then I really don't care if they gamble or not.

I also don't care if players take "Roids" or not. it's their body, they are only hurting themselves.

 

[HD MM]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean in this post. My post was to disagree with your point that gambling on baseball is nowhere near as bad as using PED's. My post clearly says why I feel gambling is far worse.

Sandra

I think Cosmo mentioned that Pete did nothing in addition to gambling to increase his gambling odds. If that's the case, gambling isn't that bad.

However as you say, if the game is finagled with in any way to alter the outcome, then that is VERY BAD.

 

[cosmo_kramer]

I'm not exactly sure what you mean in this post. My post was to disagree with your point that gambling on baseball is nowhere near as bad as using PED's. My post clearly says why I feel gambling is far worse.

OK, let's try again.

I agree that a gambling scandal that alters the outcome of games (like the 1919 Black Sox scandal) would be worse than what the juicers of today have done. My post was a reaction to a prior post that Pete Rose's gambling activity was as bad or had a more negative impact than PED usage. What I claimed in that post is that it's clear that Rose was not part of a scandal that rigged the outcomes of games for his and other's profit. He had a serious gambling problem, was not very good at it, and I believe he was properly punished for it.

To equate what Rose did with today's steroid users and compare the effects each had on the games in question is wrong.

 

[SandraC]

OK, let's try again.

I agree that a gambling scandal that alters the outcome of games (like the 1919 Black Sox scandal) would be worse than what the juicers of today have done. My post was a reaction to a prior post that Pete Rose's gambling activity was as bad or had a more negative impact than PED usage. What I claimed in that post is that it's clear that Rose was not part of a scandal that rigged the outcomes of games for his and other's profit. He had a serious gambling problem, was not very good at it, and I believe he was properly punished for it.

To equate what Rose did with today's steroid users and compare the effects each had on the games in question is wrong.

All sports have far more stringent rules regarding gambling than they do PED's. Whether you agree or not, the sports look at gambling as more of a threat to the integrity of the game than PED's.

This is because of the threat that a game can possibly be fixed. That would bring a sport down in a hurry. It's been proven PED use, even when it's a scandal, doesn't affect the very existence of the sport.


Sandra

 

[cosmo_kramer]

All sports have far more stringent rules regarding gambling than they do PED's. Whether you agree or not, the sports look at gambling as more of a threat to the integrity of the game than PED's.

This is because of the threat that a game can possibly be fixed. That would bring a sport down in a hurry. It's been proven PED use, even when it's a scandal, doesn't affect the very existence of the sport.

Holy crap, I essentially just said that, and yet you ignore the main point of my post!! I give up.

Salsa, you are right, she just has to get the last word in.

 

[SandraC]

Holy crap, I essentially just said that, and yet you ignore the main point of my post!! I give up.

Salsa, you are right, she just has to get the last word in.

Sandra

 

[SamCdbs]

My point in bringing up Rose was not to debate Rose, although it is certain that he bet ON his own team and thus never effected a game in any way, but to show what a hypocrite Bud "Light" (Kenesaw Molehill) Selig is. It is impossible to support the penalty against Rose and his one mistake and then have either guilty knowledge or willfull ignorance relative to this issue and do nothing about it.

Selig should ban these cheats for life and LET THE UNION STRIKE if it does not like it. The players in such a strike will be lucky if they can appear in public w/o physical violence being aimed at them. Its the right thing to do.

And, if Selig knew, or had willfull ignorance, of this cheating and still told the voters of all of these cities to vote for the stadium taxes, he is guilty of fraud himself.

And, if any player is "clean" and wants to do the right thing, then that is easy. Demand the union release the leagues from the contracts in this area, and if they will not, resign. 50% +1 resignations = no union and thus no reason to keep it quiet any more. Its the RIGHT thing to do. No lawyers. No contracts. No arguing. Just DO THE RIGHT THING. Those that do not are as guilty as those that took the drugs.