Power Inserter Voltage

[Tom Speer]

Stuart said 16V. I don't know anything more, except that the SWM LNBs seem to accept a wide range of input voltages. They probably have a certain wattage requirement and will draw more current as the voltage goes down, which makes the voltage go down more. At some point there is just not enough power for the LNB to operate.

 

[Jimbo]

Slightly different question in the same area :
I currently am using a 21V PI with my current 2/3 recvr set up ...
I have a HR24, a C61k Client (I don't count that as a recvr, but they do) and currently now using a HR54 ....

I never removed the external PI, in case I some time remove the HR54 for any period of time, the rest would still work.

Does this set up have 42v on it with the HR54 and the PI21v connected ?
Is that any trouble ?

Been this way for quite a while.

 

[raoul5788]

Slightly different question in the same area :
I currently am using a 21V PI with my current 2/3 recvr set up ...
I have a HR24, a C61k Client (I don't count that as a recvr, but they do) and currently now using a HR54 ....

I never removed the external PI, in case I some time remove the HR54 for any period of time, the rest would still work.

Does this set up have 42v on it with the HR54 and the PI21v connected ?
Is that any trouble ?

Been this way for quite a while.

I think I read that in this case the internal PI from the HR54 is disabled.

 

[Jimbo]

I think I read that in this case the internal PI from the HR54 is disabled.

Ok, so it doesn't Add addl voltage, good to know.

 

[Tom Speer]

DirecTV splitters prevent more than one power inserter from being active. Only one port (the red port, #1) passes power up to the LNB. The others are blocked for DC. If you are using the IRD port on the PI21 or PI29, it is also blocked for DC, so the power from any device on that port is isolated.

If you were actually able to connect two power sources together, they would be in parallel, and would not double the voltage. They would probably fight each other and burn something out internally. That won't happen because they have pretty well made the system idiot proof, unless you connect a splitter up in a really dysfunctional manner.

 

[raoul5788]

DirecTV splitters prevent more than one power inserter from being active. Only one port (the red port, #1) passes power up to the LNB. The others are blocked for DC. If you are using the IRD port on the PI21 or PI29, it is also blocked for DC, so the power from any device on that port is isolated.

If you were actually able to connect two power sources together, they would be in parallel, and would not double the voltage. They would probably fight each other and burn something out internally. That won't happen because that have pretty well made the system idiot proof, unless you connect a splitter up in a really dysfunctional manner.

What if you place the PI in line with the HR54? What happens then?

 

[lorrrrrenzo]

So this weekend I successfully used my 12v power inserter. The dish is about 150 feet away due to a tree issues

The question is...does it work?

. I adjusted the voltage to 21 at the dish. The buck converter fit perfectly in the P21 housing and easily was connected to the coax block.

 

[Tom Speer]

What if you place the PI in line with the HR54? What happens then?

As I said previously, the IRD port is blocked for DC. The PI won't pass any power from an upstream device. When I did the voltage tests above, that was exactly what I was doing, inserting the PI beween the HR54 and the line to a splitter, and up to the LNB. THe HR54 in that configuration is not supplying power.

 

[raoul5788]

As I said previously, the IRD port is blocked for DC. The PI won't pass any power from an upstream device. When I did the voltage tests above, that was exactly what I was doing, inserting the PI beween the HR54 and the line to a splitter, and up to the LNB. THe HR54 in that configuration is not supplying power.

Ah, I see now where you already answered it. Thanks.

 

[arlo]

This is interesting and have been keeping up with the thread.
The OP asks if a 12 VDC system can be used to power his SWM. But no mention of the string of components he has a need to power. Comments are going on a tangent.
Straight from receiver to the dish? Any switches, etc. in the mix?

The DIRECT TV PI21R2-16 power inserter states it can output 21 VDC....Volts Direct Current. At up to 1.2 amps/25.2 Watts current draw. Easy. Enough to power a system in the specified installation parameters.
Different setups require different power inserters. Different PI series inserters for different installations.
So the PI-8 and others like it deliver a regulated 29 VDC.
So. What are we working with? Take a peek:

https://www.swm8.com/swm-power-inserter.php

It's an RV. I didn't read if the coax needed to be run in the woods 300 feet. Probably not from any RV I've ever seen with a dish hanging outside on a tripod. Not considering roof mounted Traveler types of self-aiming units.
OK.

Firstly. All of the components. Switches, LNBF's need at least the voltage specified for them.
My tangent. My buddy's RV is 100% solar. Of course the option to plug in to an RV park outlet.
The inverter and MPPT controllers are very efficient. Very! We just upgraded to lithium batteries. Kept the deep cycle batteries too. And 2 additional easel mounted 300 watt ground mounted panels. 5 panels total. It's a toy hauler so they have the storage room. Nice setup. They run the system smart. We converted everything that can be run off of 12/18-24 VDC to eliminate wall warts and brick supplies. Used the better quality eBay boost converters for his TV, sat. To keep load off of the inverter and the obvious why boost voltage to have a power supply to reduce it again.
And I've actualy done the same thing at home for my modest solar to power my fridge and tv, router, modem and a few other things. RV bulbs in the table lamps. Runs all night just fine.

Allrigtey. The LNBF's, switches all have their own internal voltage regulators. They may state they require 29 volts. But may actually (I don't know) regulate that voltage down to 18 volts internally.
Try it. Any man worth his beans needs at least a mediocre multimeter and the smarts to use one.
A coax splicing connector, a short jumper from that to the LNBF, switch, etc.
Cut open to expose the center conductor and outer braid. And measure the voltage getting to the powered device.
If voltage gets too low the system is going to glitch or crap out and not work right or at all.
I suspect a lot of that excess 29 volts is getting dissipated as heat. Right?
10 feet of coax measure 29 volts at the tip and under load. At 100 feet measures, oh lets just say, 22 volts. The system is going to be happy. So will an installer. Not having to pee around with 47 power supplies.

The better boost converters will do the job. Take a 12-13.2 battery voltage and send it out at a higher voltage with adequate wattage. You're golden. Measure the voltage at the endpoint. Start out low and increase it to specs. Or if it works just fine at a little lower voltage. Roll with it.
Or get a high efficiency solar inverter or power bank and call it a day. Not one of those truck stop/wally world jobs.
Yeah.

 

[Stuart Sweet]

Only other thing to be aware of is that the PI-21 hasn't been made in about a decade. Any one you buy today is attic stock. I don't know about you but I don't trust stuff that old in critical parts of the install.

 

[harshness]

What if you place the PI in line with the HR54? What happens then?

The PI itself will block any DC on the IRD output (for the same reason that it can't pass DC out the IRD side).

Even if you went out of your way to use a all-port-passing splitter, the voltages are all in parallel and as such, they will not add.

It is relatively foolproof.

 

[raoul5788]

The PI itself will block any DC on the IRD output (for the same reason that it can't pass DC out the IRD side).

Even if you went out of your way to use a all-port-passing splitter, the voltages are all in parallel and as such, they will not add.

It is relatively foolproof.

This was already explained.

 

[Tom Speer]

Only other thing to be aware of is that the PI-21 hasn't been made in about a decade. Any one you buy today is attic stock. I don't know about you but I don't trust stuff that old in critical parts of the install.

Any discussion of stock pi21s is mostly a discussion for those of us who have PI21s lying around or still in our systems. The PI21 was never specified for SWM8, SWm116 or SWM30 switches, and I doubt they would provide enough power. I was trying to provide factual information about actual voltages under load, and voltage drop in the coax. And point out that the PI's in some of the Genies aren't any better than the PI21.

 

[Tom Speer]

BTW, I still have a PI21, unused, in its original box that I bought as a spare, in case mine ever failed. Not much use for it anymore.

 

[raoul5788]

Any discussion of stock pi21s is mostly a discussion for those of us who have PI21s lying around or still in our systems. The PI21 was never specified for SWM8, SWm116 or SWM30 switches, and I doubt they would provide enough power. I was trying to provide factual information about actual voltages under load, and voltage drop in the coax. And point out that the PI's in some of the Genies aren't any better than the PI21.

IIRC the swm switches required at least 24 volts, some needed 29.

 

[harshness]

Any discussion of stock pi21s is mostly a discussion for those of us who have PI21s lying around or still in our systems.

For reference, the big e-tailer out of Seattle offers new PI21s. Just because brand S chooses not to stock something doesn't mean that it is no longer available.

 

[slice1900]

Ok, so it doesn't Add addl voltage, good to know.

That's not how electricity works, if you connect multiple sources of x volts you still get x volts, but you can draw more amps. You need diodes to do so - if you look at my .sig below I list:

4xPS242000A via HRFPX4 & PS2x8

What I'm doing is using four 24v power supplies connected to an HRFPX4 which is Sonora gear that has built in diodes which combines the output from four power supplies into a single output. That's connected to a PS2x8 with its outputs connected to the polarity locker, amp and DSWM30s.

That gear only needs two of Sonora's 2A 24v power supplies worth of power to operate, the reason I'm using four is for redundancy. Protects against the loss of any one power supply, but also have each pair powered by a separate outlet served from a different electrical panel.

 

[Jimbo]

That's not how electricity works, if you connect multiple sources of x volts you still get x volts, but you can draw more amps. You need diodes to do so - if you look at my .sig below I list:

4xPS242000A via HRFPX4 & PS2x8

What I'm doing is using four 24v power supplies connected to an HRFPX4 which is Sonora gear that has built in diodes which combines the output from four power supplies into a single output. That's connected to a PS2x8 with its outputs connected to the polarity locker, amp and DSWM30s.

That gear only needs two of Sonora's 2A 24v power supplies worth of power to operate, the reason I'm using four is for redundancy. Protects against the loss of any one power supply, but also have each pair powered by a separate outlet served from a different electrical panel.

I'd say thats Way over what I'm doing ... I use and watch my TV daily, but its not worth That much.
Were talking the signal getting to the TV, Yes, the TV Is worth it.

 

[lorrrrrenzo]

This is interesting and have been keeping up with the thread.
The OP asks if a 12 VDC system can be used to power his SWM. But no mention of the string of components he has a need to power. Comments are going on a tangent.
Straight from receiver to the dish? Any switches, etc. in the mix?

The DIRECT TV PI21R2-16 power inserter states it can output 21 VDC....Volts Direct Current. At up to 1.2 amps/25.2 Watts current draw. Easy. Enough to power a system in the specified installation parameters.
Different setups require different power inserters. Different PI series inserters for different installations.
So the PI-8 and others like it deliver a regulated 29 VDC.
So. What are we working with? Take a peek:

https://www.swm8.com/swm-power-inserter.php

It's an RV. I didn't read if the coax needed to be run in the woods 300 feet. Probably not from any RV I've ever seen with a dish hanging outside on a tripod. Not considering roof mounted Traveler types of self-aiming units.
OK.

Firstly. All of the components. Switches, LNBF's need at least the voltage specified for them.
My tangent. My buddy's RV is 100% solar. Of course the option to plug in to an RV park outlet.
The inverter and MPPT controllers are very efficient. Very! We just upgraded to lithium batteries. Kept the deep cycle batteries too. And 2 additional easel mounted 300 watt ground mounted panels. 5 panels total. It's a toy hauler so they have the storage room. Nice setup. They run the system smart. We converted everything that can be run off of 12/18-24 VDC to eliminate wall warts and brick supplies. Used the better quality eBay boost converters for his TV, sat. To keep load off of the inverter and the obvious why boost voltage to have a power supply to reduce it again.
And I've actualy done the same thing at home for my modest solar to power my fridge and tv, router, modem and a few other things. RV bulbs in the table lamps. Runs all night just fine.

Allrigtey. The LNBF's, switches all have their own internal voltage regulators. They may state they require 29 volts. But may actually (I don't know) regulate that voltage down to 18 volts internally.
Try it. Any man worth his beans needs at least a mediocre multimeter and the smarts to use one.
A coax splicing connector, a short jumper from that to the LNBF, switch, etc.
Cut open to expose the center conductor and outer braid. And measure the voltage getting to the powered device.
If voltage gets too low the system is going to glitch or crap out and not work right or at all.
I suspect a lot of that excess 29 volts is getting dissipated as heat. Right?
10 feet of coax measure 29 volts at the tip and under load. At 100 feet measures, oh lets just say, 22 volts. The system is going to be happy. So will an installer. Not having to pee around with 47 power supplies.

The better boost converters will do the job. Take a 12-13.2 battery voltage and send it out at a higher voltage with adequate wattage. You're golden. Measure the voltage at the endpoint. Start out low and increase it to specs. Or if it works just fine at a little lower voltage. Roll with it.
Or get a high efficiency solar inverter or power bank and call it a day. Not one of those truck stop/wally world jobs.
Yeah.

I have three different off-grid solar situations (RV and 2 homes). I originally started this thread as my mountain property had few options for dish placement. The dish only got signal 150' from the cabin. I was having issues with the receiver resetting and I thought it could be due to a voltage drop from the P21. Shopping for a P29 I was curious if I could just run a buck voltage converter ($10 on Amazon) using the 12v from my system (and it was cheaper than a P29). I had the P21 on hand so I used the housing and coax block with the new converter (which was exactly the same size as the one it replaced). Input comes from a 12v cigarette plug, output was set to get 21v at the dish. Looks factory and works perfect. All my solar systems have pure sine inverters running off trojan or LifePo4 batteries with MPPT controllers. May seem silly to not just plug in a P29 but it gives me more power to run my Keurig lol.