Pocket DISH and HD

[Peter Parker]

i thsi is the wrong forum please move it.

I hae a pocket DISH and like it a great deal. But I have noticed that if I record to my 622 from any station that the receiver calls HD I cannot move the program to the PocketDIsh even if it is an SD program. Is there a way around this. I checked and I have the latest firmware.

 

[BFG]

you type this on a cell phone or something?

 

[BFG]

The only way around it is to make sure the 622 is recording the sd channel. Once it's been recorded theres no software on the 622 unfortunetly to convert it down to sd so it can go on a pocket dish, but maybe that could be done

 

[n0qcu]

Use the S-video or composite cables and record it to the pocketdish in real time.

 

[8bitbytes]

Porgramming from an HD labelled channel cannot be transferred, regardless of actual content.

Recording directly to the PocketDish is your only option from an HD Channel.

 

[Peter Parker]

Thanks for the advice. I did not think that there was a way to get it to record HD but I thought taht terhe might bea way to get iit to realize that the program is SD.

 

[David_Levin]

SD recordings on an HD channel have been upscaled to Hi-Def. By the time they hit your house they are hi-def from a bit rate perspective. The PocketDish just can't handle it.

Current generation PocketDish can't handle h.264 either. So, expect more trouble if Dish ever starts converting SD to mpeg4 (probably still a few years away).

 

[zitro]

Whatever happened to the new generation of PocketDish portables? Wasn't the initial speculation for a Holiday '06 release?

 

[JohnL]

SD recordings on an HD channel have been upscaled to Hi-Def. By the time they hit your house they are hi-def from a bit rate perspective. The PocketDish just can't handle it.

Current generation PocketDish can't handle h.264 either. So, expect more trouble if Dish ever starts converting SD to mpeg4 (probably still a few years away).

David,

First SD recordings on HD channels are NOT be scaled up to HD. The actual resolution for HD is either there or it isn't. Most HD TV series are recorded on 35mm film which is higher resolution than HD. The film master is then remastered to either 1080i or 720p and then broadcast. SD content is NOT upscaled into HD, SD content (720x480) can be scaled to be broadcast in a 1080i or 720p format but the results are simply NOT pretty. Garbage in equals garbage OUT. You simply can't start with 1/4 of all of the HD pixels missing and expect even decent results when upscaling SD into quasi HD.

High Bit rate does NOT mean a channel is HD or SD. A HD channel using MPEG4 compression results in bit rates that are about half of the bit rate for the same channel using MPEG2, but the resulting PQ is the same. Again a High Bit rate means little to nothing if that Bit Rate can't resolve a great picture, the efficiency of the modulation scheme (8PSK, QPSK), as well as the efficiency of the Compression scheme has a lot to do and it some cases MORE to do with PQ, than a RAW measurement of a Channels Bit Rate.

High Bit rates just mean more used BYTES of storage, Dish has purposely disabled the PocketDish's ability to store HD programing, specifically the result of the Content owners DEMAND that they do so.

The Pocketdishs' inability to store HD programing is the result of this demand, and less about the technology involved.

John

 

[8bitbytes]

The Pocketdishs' inability to store HD programing is the result of this demand, and less about the technology involved.

John

Well, also because at 10gb per one hour episode, you couldn't get much on the PosketDish in HD anyway.

 

[David_Levin]

High Bit rate does NOT mean a channel is HD or SD.

High Bit rates just mean more used BYTES of storage, Dish has purposely disabled the PocketDish's ability to store HD programing, specifically the result of the Content owners DEMAND that they do so.

Why are you arguing? That's the point. SD on a hi-def channel is coming in at a high bit rate (720 or 1080). That's why the pocket dish can't handle it.

Where did you hear that the content owners made this demand? Please provide a reference.

The Pocketdishs' inability to store HD programing is the result of this demand, and less about the technology involved.

No, it is about the technology. The scaler in the Pocketdish cannot handle the bit rate of a 720/1080 stream (nor can it decode h.264). And, as was also pointed out. The HDD doesn't have the storage. Are you an Engineer? I Am. I've designed 3 hi-speed, radiationed hardened memory controllers for satellites.

 

[Smith P.]

David, please check this page for example and retract your statement "nor can it decode h.264".
It does H.264 playback, higher models can record video in H.264.

 

[David_Levin]

David, please check this page for example and retract your statement "nor can it decode h.264".
It does H.264 playback, higher models can record video in H.264.

The page you referenced makes no mention of h.264. There are different variants of mpeg4. h.264 is one of the most advanced. Just because a device says mpeg4 doesn't mean it'll play h.264.

Notice also that the max resolution is listed as 720x480 @ 30 f/s (NTSC), 720x576 @ 25 f/s (PAL). It can't handle a hi-def frame (1280x720 or 1920x1080).

 

[David_Levin]

By the way. The new Archos models do support h.264 (with OPTIONAL software plug-ins). It's specifically called out:

http://www.archos.com/products/video/archos_604wifi/tech_specs.html?country=global&lang=en

But, it still says "up to DVD resolution" (no Hi-Def). Throughout the spec MPEG-4 AAC/H.264 is listed separately from MPEG-4 (they are not considered the same thing).

 

[Smith P.]

Hmm, I recall ppl mocking with PD files before Feb reported there was MPEG-2 stream. Seems you right - sure MPEG-4 could encapsulate more then just H.264 video.
If owners of high end AV700 could tell us, what video compression in those PD's MPEG-4 files ?

 

[8bitbytes]

If owners of high end AV700 could tell us, what video compression in those PD's MPEG-4 files ?

I have loaded and played xvid and divx files on my 700E. I have not recorded any mpeg4 encoded video yet. Will give a go tonite.

 

[David_Levin]

8bitbytes,

I believe xvid (and maybe) divx are also considered variants of mpeg 4. If you're going to try it make sure you choose an encoder that specifically supports h.264.

Also take note of the max supported resolution.

 

[tnsprin]

8bitbytes,

I believe xvid (and maybe) divx are also considered variants of mpeg 4. If you're going to try it make sure you choose an encoder that specifically supports h.264.

Also take note of the max supported resolution.

So is VC-1 (mpeg4 that is). At the moment Archos lists only the following for x04 models. Perhaps this may change in the future. And no one that I know of has said what the Pocket dish branded versions will support.

MPEG-4 (ASP@L5 AVI, up to DVD resolution) With optional plug-ins:

- H.264 up to DVD resolution and AAC sound;

- MPEG-2 MP@ML up to 10 Mbps (up to DVD resolution) and AC3 stereo sound;

- VOB

 

[gasman882001]

Whatever happened to the new generation of PocketDish portables? Wasn't the initial speculation for a Holiday '06 release?

I would like to know this also. I have been waiting for them to come out to purchase one but have not heard anything. It is even getting hard to find the old ones for purchase. I have been looking for one of the 7 inch models with no luck unless I want to put out a lot of $$$. Figured I would wait and spend my money on the next generation.

 

[steve4810]

Please let me resurrect this topic.

I Got my 622 two weeks ago. Before that I had tried to live with the USB1.1 transfer rates for my AV700 but found it mostly usless for "quick grabs" before leaving home so the 622 came with high expectations.

Alas! Now I have 38 HD channels that carry 75+ percent of my favorite shows.

Looking at my records I see that I have yet to own my PD for one year.

Is it now just a drink coaster?

Pocket Dish = $300 for 4.5 hrs of TV?

You guys seem to have the technology down so maybe can you tell me how much challenge there would be to do a software update to the 622 to allow HD to SD conversions for PD or USB drive storage?

I feel a real red-faced rage comming on if Mr Ergen figured the selling an SD only device for use on a 622 that will never download its HD content to the PD is a fair deal.

Steve

P.S. Other uses for the PD (XVID, etc) are not an acceptable solution for me. The same goes for SDing my shows and living with them on my flat panel in case I may want to download them some day or using "real time" analog video transfers. - This is not the deal I thought I made with E#.