Ozzie states some interesting comments...

[SamCdbs]

Differences:

1 - There are plenty of people in the USA, and in minor league baseball, who speak Spanish. Puerto Ricans, many Mexicans, and, of course, most all Americans from "Hispanic" miniority groups are at least marginally bilingual (the Americans far beyond that), and able to help players from other Latin countries. There are, by contrast, a tiny number of Japanese or Korean speakers in the USA generally or in MiLB.

2 - English and Spanish are both European languages. Same alphabet, many cognate words, same sentance structure. The amount of time one must put in to get to any particular level of functionality is far less than a totally dissimilar Asian language.

3 - Japan and Korea are First World countries, with standards of living not far from that in North America, and with functioning baseball leagues of their own. Players must be lured with money and perks to leave that for the USA. The Spanish Carribbean is a dirt poor place. The alternative for a 18 year old from the Dominican Republic to making it in baseball is a hard short life of poverty.

 

[DodgerKing]

And I cannot say that I don't disagree.

There is a difference because they ARE different. Comments like this only show how stupid he can be at times.

First, Japanese players are already pro players who are usually the best in their league and have been playing for years at a much higher pro level than those in the Dominican. Dominican players are mostly amateurs who still have a lot of developing to do.

Second, many teams to not have players or personnel who can speak Japanese, so an interpreter is required. Every single team has several players who can speak Spanish. Why have an interpreter if one is not needed?

If he feels there is inequity, then why not comment on the fact that a little island produces much more MLB players than another chain of islands with a larger population and much more skilled players.

 

[DodgerKing]

There is NO doubt he LOVES attention. But I will take what Ozzie says over that blowheart Schilling says ANY DAY of the week. Ozzie has seen it BOTH as a player AND a manager. Something Schilling has NOT done.

Really? At least Schilling has some logic behind his comments. At least he can support what he says with facts. Ozzy just makes some stupid comment of unfairness without realizing that there actually IS a difference and because of this difference the effects are also different.

People see inequity and assume that there is intentional racism, without taking time to think why these NEEDED difference exist.

Again, one group has an interpreter because there is NOBODY else on the team that can interpret for them. The other group does not need an interpreter. Heck, why do they not allow English interpreters, they are the largest group (using Ozzie logic). In reality, if any group has a gripe it should be the influx of the Dutch players. They are increasing in number and are not allowed an interpreter. I can guarantee you that most teams do not have players that speak Dutch.

 

[DodgerKing]

Nope...most Japanese players have not. This has nothing to do with the union, it's has to do with his point, and I agree, that why should anyone be treated any differently. Bad communication is bad communication, regardless of the language. Either get interpreters for everyone or teach english for everyone.

Because they are DIFFERENT

 

[DodgerKing]

well I do. Most teams have spanish speaking players and coaches that also speak english. How many teams have coaches that speak Japanese? For those teams to be required to hire a spanish interpreter is asinine. Ozzie has abandoned common sense on this one.

When has Ozzie ever used common sense?

 

[DodgerKing]

And btw, who's to say the Spanish speaking players around the league DON'T have a translator available to them? I know for a fact Fausto Carmona had a Spanish to English interpretor. Korean native, Sin Soo Choo also has a translator. Maybe Ozzie's club doesn't have a Spanish interpretor, because he THE COACH HIMSELF speaks Spanish so there's no need!

Good point, and possibly true

 

[DodgerKing]

Here is one more issue of inequity between the Spanish speaking players and the Japanese speaking players that Ozzie conveniently left out that give the Spanish speaking players a huge advantage. Those times when a coach needs to go out to the mound and talk to the pitcher about strategy. When a Spanish only speaking player is pitching, almost every team has at leas one other player in the infield or the coach himself that can interpret for the pitcher or even interpret for one of the infielders who doesn't speak English. Can the same be said for a Japanese speaking player or pitcher that doesn't speak English. Good luck trying to find another infielder or coach that can accurately translate the strategy to that player. The interpreter is not allowed to go out with the coach, giving this Japanese player and the team a huge disadvantage.

 

[salsadancer7]

Really? At least Schilling has some logic behind his comments. At least he can support what he says with facts. Ozzy just makes some stupid comment of unfairness without realizing that there actually IS a difference and because of this difference the effects are also different.

1st and foremost, Schilling can ONLY give a players perfective of the game. Ozzie can give a players, coach and manager's perspetive. So THAT part of the above is dubious at best because he can give only ONE perfective. Ozzie is just as opinionated as Schilling.....but Ozzie is liked by all coaches and players alike. The same cannot be said about Schilling.

People see inequity and assume that there is intentional racism, without taking time to think why these NEEDED difference exist.

....can you tell WHERE he has stated or insinuated racism in his comments? Preferential Treatment, yes...race no. So THAT part of your statement is nullified.

Again, one group has an interpreter because there is NOBODY else on the team that can interpret for them. The other group does not need an interpreter. Heck, why do they not allow English interpreters, they are the largest group (using Ozzie logic). In reality, if any group has a gripe it should be the influx of the Dutch players. They are increasing in number and are not allowed an interpreter. I can guarantee you that most teams do not have players that speak Dutch.

From what I am trying to understand what Ozzie is saying, is that in situation where there NO ONE that can interpret, whether we are talking about coaches, managers or players that do not speak spanish, there is no one to interpret and the latino ballplayers is left to fend for himself.

And MOST of the Dutch baseball players have come from the Lesser Antilles region of the Caribbean(Aruba, Curacao & Bonaire) where the main language is something called "papiamento". But ALOT of them speak English(had two freshmen on a team of 18 and under that I coached last year). As of now, the only player that I know of that was born and originally from the Netherlands is in the majors is/was, Rick VandenHurk who was a Florida Marlin. And he spoke good english.

 

[DodgerKing]

1st and foremost, Schilling can ONLY give a players perfective of the game. Ozzie can give a players, coach and manager's perspetive. So THAT part of the above is dubious at best because he can give only ONE perfective. Ozzie is just as opinionated as Schilling.....but Ozzie is liked by all coaches and players alike. The same cannot be said about Schilling.

Which only makes his irrational comments even worse.

....can you tell WHERE he has stated or insinuated racism in his comments? Preferential Treatment, yes...race no. So THAT part of your statement is nullified.

You are correct. He did not make that claim. It is more about inequity of two groups based on language.

From what I am trying to understand what Ozzie is saying, is that in situation where there NO ONE that can interpret, whether we are talking about coaches, managers or players that do not speak spanish, there is no one to interpret and the latino ballplayers is left to fend for himself.

How often does that occur? You spoke of Ozzie's perspective as a manager. Can we also speak of his perspective as a Spanish speaker. Since he speaks both Spanish and English, I doubt he has ever experienced a situation in which there is no one around to interpret for the Spanish speakers. Since he can interpret himself and all.

And MOST of the Dutch baseball players have come from the Lesser Antilles region of the Caribbean(Aruba, Curacao & Bonaire) where the main language is something called "papiamento". But ALOT of them speak English(had two freshmen on a team of 18 and under that I coached last year). As of now, the only player that I know of that was born and originally from the Netherlands is in the majors is/was, Rick VandenHurk who was a Florida Marlin. And he spoke good english.

Most do speak English, as do most of the Latin and Japanese players as well. Doesn't this contradict the point you made above about that SITUATION in which no one is around to interpret? These Dutch players will encounter this to a much greater extent than the Latin players. Every single team has at least one Spanish speaker on the team. Few teams have a Dutch speaker.

Anyway, my point was more of one to show how irrationally ridiculous his stupid comment was. Both groups are treated different because the situations ARE different. As I stated, the number of interpreters already present is different. The the playing ability of those that get signed from their respective countries is different as well.

 

[salsadancer7]

Which only makes his irrational comments even worse.

WHY does it make it worse? Could it be that these are some of the things HE experienced as a player and some of the things his players that he has coached have told him. Are you now assuming that these things might have happened and his players either current or former are lying?

How often does that occur? You spoke of Ozzie's perspective as a manager. Can we also speak of his perspective as a Spanish speaker. Since he speaks both Spanish and English, I doubt he has ever experienced a situation in which there is no one around to interpret for the Spanish speakers. Since he can interpret himself and all.

Did you know that when he came into the minor leagues, he spoke very little english? He struggled his whole baseball trying to improve his english...and from what I read, mostly on his own. So yeah, he had a situation or two where he hoped he used the correct words to get his message across.

Most do speak English, as do most of the Latin and Japanese players as well. Doesn't this contradict the point you made above about that SITUATION in which no one is around to interpret? These Dutch players will encounter this to a much greater extent than the Latin players. Every single team has at least one Spanish speaker on the team. Few teams have a Dutch speaker.

That is you misconception my friend. ALOT of the latino players that come from small towns in Latin America DO NOT speak english. The players that were born in big cities in latin america do. And please do not use the Dutch as an example because there is no major influx of Dutch players into the majors.

Anyway, my point was more of one to show how irrationally ridiculous his stupid comment was. Both groups are treated different because the situations ARE different. As I stated, the number of interpreters already present is different. The the playing ability of those that get signed from their respective countries is different as well.

It is "irrationally ridiculous his stupid comment" because it more than likely something that YOU have not experienced and he and more than likely some of his players have. But hey, IF it has not happened to you, then it MUST be 'dumb' or 'stupid'.

 

[Mr Tony]

R I can guarantee you that most teams do not have players that speak Dutch.

The Twins do
old Circle me Bert can translate for them

 

[cosmo_kramer]

As already stated, most Japanese players go straight to the majors, necessitating the need of a translator. But, that doesn't mean they will rely on that forever, at least with on-the-field communications. Most will make the attempt to learn English as well, Dice-K for example...

From an interview last year:

How hard working on English? “I’m very well aware of all the difficulties and communication because of the language barrier, is a source of stress for the coaches and for the manager. It’s just another obstacle to having good communication. So I’m aware of that, and recently, bit by bit, admittedly, I’ve been taking steps to study a little bit of English every day.”

Full Count » Daisuke speaks to the media … in English

 

[DodgerKing]

WHY does it make it worse? Could it be that these are some of the things HE experienced as a player and some of the things his players that he has coached have told him. Are you now assuming that these things might have happened and his players either current or former are lying?

Because it is even more foolish for a leader to speak out irrationally

Did you know that when he came into the minor leagues, he spoke very little english? He struggled his whole baseball trying to improve his english...and from what I read, mostly on his own. So yeah, he had a situation or two where he hoped he used the correct words to get his message across.

There were still people around who spoke both English and Spanish, so a special interpreter was not needed. Isn't that the point Ozzie was trying to make, one of double standards?

Of course there is a double standard because the situation calls for such. Once teams have several players that speak both Japanese and English, then Japanese interpreters will no longer be needed.

That is you misconception my friend. ALOT of the latino players that come from small towns in Latin America DO NOT speak english. The players that were born in big cities in latin america do. And please do not use the Dutch as an example because there is no major influx of Dutch players into the majors.

So? Most do. Again, you are diverging from the issue. Even if most did not, there are already interpreters around, so there is no need for special interpreters.

It is "irrationally ridiculous his stupid comment" because it more than likely something that YOU have not experienced and he and more than likely some of his players have. But hey, IF it has not happened to you, then it MUST be 'dumb' or 'stupid'.

Only goes to show how foolish he really is. He is incapable of seeing reality through his own irrational perspective. I encounter people like this all of the time. What they experience, or I should say how they interpret what they experience, is no where close to reality.

The truth of the matter is, there are Spanish to English interpreters on every team, so there is no need for the team to hire one. Japanese interpreters are a different situation. If he could see that he would not have made such a stupid comment. If is own experiences blind him from being able to understand this reality, then I do have to question his own sanity and perspective.

The truth of the matter is, the few Japanese players that come over to play MLB are already at the professional major league level and are much older in age with much more experience. Therefor there is NO NEED for them to play in the minors. (You are not going to put them there just to learn English). Most Latin players are drafted as youth without the same level of experience and skill, and thus must play in the minor to develop these skills. If he could see that he would not have made such a stupid comment. If is own experiences blind him from being able to understand this reality, then I do have to question his own sanity and perspective.

 

[Sparkman]

Here's the OTL from Monday with the discussion of this:

[ame="http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=5431884"]OTL Discussion: MLB's Language Barrier - ESPN Video - ESPN[/ame]

 

[DetFan]

I'd taake him here in detroit any day of the week. I can actually understand him far better than Leyland. Leyland sounds like has food in his mouth every time he speaks to the Media..OH WAIT he usually does, forgot about that.

 

[salsadancer7]

Because it is even more foolish for a leader to speak out irrationally.

Again, why? Because it is something you disagree with(not you in particular, but in this case, I guess that includes you). You know it's funny when someone expresses an opinion that you agree with....then they have every right to express themselves....it is their right. But the moment you don't agree with it, then it is either "stupid" or "irrational". Yep, we LOVE firey coaches/managers when it is someone you like, when it is not....they are the names quoted about. Hey, I am guilty of the same things too, but at least be man enough to admit it.

There were still people around who spoke both English and Spanish, so a special interpreter was not needed.

And you can confirm that for a fact in every single minor league system for every single team?

Only goes to show how foolish he really is. He is incapable of seeing reality through his own irrational perspective. I encounter people like this all of the time. What they experience, or I should say how they interpret what they experience, is no where close to reality.

You know the true agenda and dislike when someone is now telling them that their OWN experiences are irrational or wrong. You are now telling what they is "now here close to reality". So in other words, you are now doing what you are accussing other of doing? ..."interpret what they experience, is no where close to reality".

If is own experiences blind him from being able to understand this reality, then I do have to question his own sanity and perspective.

There you go again, telling people that their thoughts and experiences are wrong. Very dangerous of sounding elitest and thinking YOUR thoughts are better than others because YOURS are based on reality because your opinions are based on "sanity and perspective".

The truth of matter is you just don't like him....simple as that..just admit it. I have gone on my rants the last few days about Shanna-douche, but on my very 1st post, I made it clear that I did not like him. Same as the other guys, Schilling...I don't like him, and I said it upfront.

Let's just say...you said your peace...and we will not change each other's mind....

 

[salsadancer7]

I'd taake him here in detroit any day of the week. I can actually understand him far better than Leyland. Leyland sounds like has food in his mouth every time he speaks to the Media..OH WAIT he usually does, forgot about that.

I LOVE Leyland!!! We was very much loved down here .....:up

 

[salsadancer7]

Here's the OTL from Monday with the discussion of this:

OTL Discussion: MLB's Language Barrier - ESPN Video - ESPN

I will have to see it at home....firewall at work won't let me....

 

[DetFan]

I LOVE Leyland!!! We was very much loved down here .....:up

I'll trade you Leyland for Ozzie and Quentin??

 

[salsadancer7]

I'll trade you Leyland for Ozzie and Quentin??

LOL!! Well, I am in Miami, so I am Marlins fan. I tell you what, you can have outfielder Cameron Maybin, pitcher Andrew Miller, catcher Mike Rabelo and minor league pitchers Eulogio De La Cruz, Dallas Trahern and Burke Badenhop and you give us Miguel Cabrera back...? Whaddaya say?!