Over The Air Scanning Questions (PSIP data missing post here)

[JaydeeD]

Well I got the new software, when doing an auto scan, it will pause at every frequency where there should be a channel, but no PSIP on any channel except PBS and FOX

When doing the antenna pointing method and inputting the RF channel # it shows a good strong signal, so apparently on top of all my channels telling me in e-mails that it will most likely be years before they upgrade to HD, they are not transmitting PSIP either

Here is a rundown

Channel 11-1 (FOX) (RF 8) (KFFX)

Was mapped, NO HD, comes in good. Auto scan has PSIP, RF scan shows signal 93. This channel does not respond to any e-mails about future HD------PSIP GOOD
---------------------

Channel 19-1 (CBS) (RF 18) (KEPR)

Was mapped, NO HD, can only receive when thier analog channel on 19 is off the air (analog 500,000 watts, digital 3000 watts--analog keeps digital from locking in because of how close the frequencies are) Auto scan stops and continues. RF scan shows signal 0-80. This channel says they have no plans for HD, and if I want to watch them to just watch the analog feed, very rude.
-----NO PSIP
-------------------------

Channel 25-1 & 25-2 (NBC) (RF 26) (KNDU)

Was mapped, NO HD, have never been able to recieve. Auto scan stops and continues. RF scan shows signal 0-80. This channel say possible upgrade to HD in 2-3 years. Also says they think I probably cannot recieve because of the proximity to thier analog feed on 25.------NO PSIP
-----------------------------

Channel 31-1 & 31-2 (PBS) (RF 38) (KTNW & KWSU)

KTNW (31-1) was mapped, NO HD. Auto scan found info for 31-1 and added 31-2. Recieve both very well. Didn't bother with RF scan. No answer to HD upgrade questions. PSIP GOOD
--------------------------

Channel 42-1 (ABC) (RF 44) (KVEW)

Was mapped, NO HD. Recieve very well. Auto scan stops and continues. RF scan shows signal 99. This station also says possible HD in 2-3 years----NO PSIP

ALL of these channels except fox come from a tower 10 miles north of me. I have a seperate antenna for the fox as it is VHF and comes from the east about 50 miles

 

[TheForce]

Every station has to have PSIP info. They can't go on the air without one and couple other things. They do not need to use all the features but it has to have channel mapping info. That is part of the standard and there are no questions about it. The problem is that sometimes PSIP data gets corrupted and some receivers do not like it. Most times all they need to do is reboot the PSIP generator.

I would like to have regulation documentation of what you claim. Specifically, "They can't go on the air without it"

In my own studies, I recognize that the FCC has indeed adopted the PSIP standard as part of the ATSC standard but it is considered a subset of the ATSC requirement and has yet to be formally required as part of the signal in regulation. As late as April 2004 The FCC was receiving comments from interested citizens and stations regarding this as a required part of the broadcast signal. The FCC closed the receipt of these comments in May. I have not heard that the FCC decided PSIP has been formally required yet as a regulated part of the broadcast. PSIP is not alone in this subset adopted standards that is not yet a requirement, but is under consideration for addition to the regulation. DD5.1 can also be considered an adopted standard but not a requirement, as one example.

WGBH/NCAM has made a formal request for the FCC to make PSIP a required standard in Docket 00-168 back in April of 2003.

However, there is another part of the PSIP conflict that is regulated and could cause many stations who are not using it now to be in violation. This is the part of PSIP that sets the descriptor for Closed Caption. If a station is not in compliance with the Closed Caption regulation on their ATSC channel they could be fined. Interestingly, the system to set these descriptors is PSIP. I believe a technical loophole to forcing your local station to implement PSIP as stated in the subset standard would be to report the station for a violation of the CC regulations. Their recoarse after paying the fine would be to implement PSIP. Mission accomplished!

In reality, there are still quite a few stations around the country who not only don't do PSIP but may tell their inquiries that they don't plan to until the FCC makes it mandatory in the regulations.



Sean- FYI as you requested: In Jacksonville Florida we have WJXX DT10-1 and 10-2 ABC affiliate that does not transmit PSIP
Also Station WTLV DT 13-1 NBC affiliate does not transmit PSIP

Both of these stations are under the same management, a duopoly.


CKNA- I plan to give the above stations till Fall to implement PSIP here and then I will use a subtle approach with their engineering people and management as to query them about why they are in violation of the CC regulation. If they are smart they will give PSIP generating equipment increased priority. Of course, if the FCC finally acts on this, it will be a done deal.

 

[smodak]

93%-98% but no lock

Sean,
With the new software I am picking up a number of new channels with a strength between 93-98%. But when I actually watch the channel it does not lock (says no sigal received on channel such and such ) though the satellite icon remains green on the voom box (it turns red for the channels I do not receive). Is it the PSIP problem everybody is talking about? What's the fix?

 

[bryan27]

So what you are saying is that when you did your scan NBC came up and replaced the NBC that had your PG information. So now you have no PG information on NBC? (I am just using NBC as an example). Is this what is happening?

Sean, just wanted to let you know that is exactly what happened to me when I scanned today. On the VOOM guide it had WPXIDT, but the scanned name was WPXI. The new scanned name replaced VOOM's WPXIDT name and the guide had "no info" for the channel. A few hours later the guide info showed up on the newly named WPXI.

I also want to add that the VOOM OTA signal strengh bar will show a signal on analog channel numbers. So people may punch in an RF number for an analog channel, see an 81 signal strength and wonder why it didn't get scanned in the channel guide because it is actually an analog channel.

 

[Sean Mota]

Sean,
With the new software I am picking up a number of new channels with a strength between 93-98%. But when I actually watch the channel it does not lock (says no sigal received on channel such and such ) though the satellite icon remains green on the voom box (it turns red for the channels I do not receive). Is it the PSIP problem everybody is talking about? What's the fix?

No. If there's no PSIP data in the stream, it would have never made it to your PG. It looks like one of two things: Either you need to re-aim the antenna or you need a stronger antenna to pick up those.

Disclaimer: I would not put too much credit on that number 93-98%. I still don't understand the number. It is very inflated.

 

[Sean Mota]

Sean, just wanted to let you know that is exactly what happened to me when I scanned today. On the VOOM guide it had WPXIDT, but the scanned name was WPXI. The new scanned name replaced VOOM's WPXIDT name and the guide had "no info" for the channel. A few hours later the guide info showed up on the newly named WPXI.

I also want to add that the VOOM OTA signal strengh bar will show a signal on analog channel numbers. So people may punch in an RF number for an analog channel, see an 81 signal strength and wonder why it didn't get scanned in the channel guide because it is actually an analog channel.

Those two observations are excellent to know.

 

[smodak]

No. If there's no PSIP data in the stream, it would have never made it to your PG. It looks like one of two things: Either you need to re-aim the antenna or you need a stronger antenna to pick up those.

Disclaimer: I would not put too much credit on that number 93-98%. I still don't understand the number. It is very inflated.

Sean,
So, that means even if I pick up a channel in the scan, I might not receive the video? I thought in another thread somewhere you mentioned that only channels which can be locked by the box (8 times, sufficient signal strength etc.) are picked up by the scan.

http://www.satelliteguys.us/showpost.php?p=148851&postcount=1

Anyone else scanning at above 90% but not picking up the actual channel?

 

[RogerD]

I played some more with the OTA scan. The problem I reported that the PG would not come in for channels not found in most recent saved scan corrected itself after I did a cold reboot (with actual power cord unplug). Interestingly after the cold reboot, a few new channels I picked up from the scans disappeared from the channel list. Strange.

-RogerD

 

[Sean Mota]

Sean,
So, that means even if I pick up a channel in the scan, I might not receive the video? I thought in another thread somewhere you mentioned that only channels which can be locked by the box (8 times, sufficient signal strength etc.) are picked up by the scan.

http://www.satelliteguys.us/showpost.php?p=148851&postcount=1

Anyone else scanning at above 90% but not picking up the actual channel?

No, you should receive the video. There's something wrong because the scanning recognized that there was a signal with the PSIP data stream requirement; it was put in your PG but somehow it is not receiving any video right now.

I did not go back to the thread to see your particular situation but there are three things to check:

1 - the channel is live and sending signal still. Either have another digital receiver or check if any of your friends is getting it.

2 - adjust (or re-aim) your antenna to see if that makes a difference. Sometimes a few degrees in rotation makes a difference.

3 - If (1) or (2) did not make a difference. Send me an email to Sean_Mota@satelliteguys.us and I will enquire why?

 

[lostcause]

I think I'm having the problem being talked about here. From what I understand, I should be getting the ABC News channel on 10-2 here in Miami. When I scan, it detects it just fine. When I try to watch it though, I just get a black screen with no sound.

Any fix for this?

 

[iceshark]

I am getting a picture on three PBS channels after scan but no sound.
In Seattle area anyone else having this quirk?

 

[TVH]

DIGITAL~DAN, or anyone...

I do have an older DST-3000 that I want to use with the OTA antenna set up for my Voom box. I will be using the DST-3000 on a second TV. The Voom box is on my primary TV. I need to split the OTA signal from the antenna. I am using the Voom stealth antenna with in-line amplication.

Can someone please let me know what type of splitter I need to buy (from Radio Shack, etc...). I had a older splitter at home and tried it out. When I connected it, the power supply for the amplifier heated up to a point where I was afraid it would cause a melt down. Maybe I am using a wrong type of splitter. Since I am at work, I do not remember what the specs of the splitter I have now.

Any tips on getting the right splitter will be appreciated.

Thanks,
Tony.

 

[DIGITAL~DAN]

TVH,I used a regular splitter that has one input and two outputs and has no frequiency limits.It works fine for me but I am using a channel master 4221 4 bay bowtie antenna with no amplifier and pick up channels from over 80 miles away.If I were you I would try a regular splitter and hook it up after you hook
up the amplifier and see how that works.

 

[TVH]

DIGITAL~DAN,

Thanks for the reply. I'll go and buy a new splitter with no frequency limitation. Hopefully this will help with the heat issue. The one I have now does have frequency limitations. Maybe this is why my amplifier conflicts with it by heating up?

Tony.


-------
DIGITAL~DAN,

Is this what you are using? Looks like frequency range is between 5 to 1100 Mhz and output to two 5 dB.

http://www.radioshack.com/category.asp?catalog_name=CTLG&category_name=CTLG_007_002_001_006&Page=1

2-Way Bi-Directional Splitter

$10.49 Brand: RadioShack
Catalog #: 15-2582 Model: 15-2582
(Pricing and Availability may vary outside
the contiguous 48 United States.)

 

[DIGITAL~DAN]

TVH,The splitter I have says input on one end and says output on both outputs .If it says anything else it is probley the wrong one.I looked at radioshack.com and could not find it online but I know that they have some........DIGITAL~DAN

 

[TVH]

DIGITAL~DAN,

I wonder if I can use the diplexer that the installer gave me to split the antenna feed? any thoughts on this?

Thanks,
Tony.

 

[DIGITAL~DAN]

I will look at the splitter when I get home tonight and see what it says on it .I will post what I find, as to wheather the diplexer will work I dont think It will because they are designed for combining sat and uhf/vhf siginals into one line going into the house and then using another splitter inside the house to split the siginals before you hook them up to the SAT IN.and ANT IN. on the receiver

 

[TVH]

Looking forward to your findings DIGITAL~DAN...

 

[jnardone]

Hi:
I spent a couple of hours last night scanning for OTA's in several directions and I picked up 24 new channels that come in clearly w/sound and video. 3 of these were additional sub-channels for channels that VOOM already had in the "list" for my ZIP code and 21 of them are not on my list. All 24 new channels list "no info" in the program guide. Sean - I sent you an email with a list of the channels that VOOM needs to add to the "list" for my ZIP code and I also called VOOM today to see if they coulc just add to the list over the phone. The first CSR told me "FCC regulations prohibit VOOM from providing programming information for channels that are not listed for your ZIP code". I didn't think that this was true so I asked to talk to a supervisor. The supervisor seemed to think that I was calling to complain that I could not receive channels that were in my program guide (I guess that is what a lot of people call about) but after a while she understood that I needed channels added to VOOM's list for my ZIP code. She said that she did not know if that was possible but that someone would call me back within 3 days. Shouldn't she have known that this was possible? It is possible isn't it? The channels are not much good without the guide information. Don't get me wrong, I am glad to be receiving them but I also feel like if VOOM had its act together when it launched I would have been enjoying 24 additional local channels for the past 7 months.
Thanks,
Joseph

 

[Sean Mota]

Hi:
I spent a couple of hours last night scanning for OTA's in several directions and I picked up 24 new channels that come in clearly w/sound and video. 3 of these were additional sub-channels for channels that VOOM already had in the "list" for my ZIP code and 21 of them are not on my list. All 24 new channels list "no info" in the program guide. Sean - I sent you an email with a list of the channels that VOOM needs to add to the "list" for my ZIP code and I also called VOOM today to see if they coulc just add to the list over the phone. The first CSR told me "FCC regulations prohibit VOOM from providing programming information for channels that are not listed for your ZIP code". I didn't think that this was true so I asked to talk to a supervisor. The supervisor seemed to think that I was calling to complain that I could not receive channels that were in my program guide (I guess that is what a lot of people call about) but after a while she understood that I needed channels added to VOOM's list for my ZIP code. She said that she did not know if that was possible but that someone would call me back within 3 days. Shouldn't she have known that this was possible? It is possible isn't it? The channels are not much good without the guide information. Don't get me wrong, I am glad to be receiving them but I also feel like if VOOM had its act together when it launched I would have been enjoying 24 additional local channels for the past 7 months.
Thanks,
Joseph

got it.