OTA question for a clueless person (me!)

[sktrus]

StealthTenna,

thank u. I checked. Channel Master is selling it at $29.

STEALTHtenna 50

Channel Master STEALTHtenna (CM3010HD) is a Digital HDTV Outdoor TV Antenna and picks up UHF, VHF, FM and HD signals with a signal range of 50 miles.

www.channelmaster.com

I learned something that always puzzled me. Real channel vs virtual channel.The following is pasted from internet:

(The virtual channel number is the number you see that is displayed on the screen of the television screen.
The real channel broadcast number is the actual channel frequency in use by a the TV station to broadcast the TV signal.

The frequency spectrum is broken down into 3 bands.

VHF Low band. Real channels 2-6

VHF High band. Real channels 7-13

UHF band. Real channels 14 and up.)

So, let's say CH 4 existed before jump from analog to digital broadcasting. They kept using it, but they changed the frequency to a higher number. perhaps, it is an FCC ruling.

 

[sktrus]

It may be hard to see, but that's because it's so modest. I suspect it's only designed for metro use. Seems to be for sale and going for around $30.

If sktrus is having low signal strength problems, certainly taking his Terk whatever it is out of the attic, as you suggested, will be helpful. Plugging in the power supply for it's amp will be even more helpful!

Thanks for the input TheKrell;
My assumption (which was wrong!) regarding Terk55 in the attic was that it wasn't preamp. I assumed the antenna should use external power to be considered preamp or amplified. Some good folks here corrected me. The coax comes from antenna to the home run and is attached to a power injector. this power injector is wired to a power plug.
My experiment with different connections to airtv adapter failed. I am making wild assumption here. The antenna (terk 55) was installed 18 yrs ago before we switched from analog to digital. So, does it mean that antenna is obsolete now? I am determined to see this as a challenge and will keep pushing it!

Here's the pic of terk55 power injector (located in the homerun room, not where the antenna is). The power cord is visible underneath.

 

[Bobby]

thank u. I checked. Channel Master is selling it at $29.

STEALTHtenna 50

Channel Master STEALTHtenna (CM3010HD) is a Digital HDTV Outdoor TV Antenna and picks up UHF, VHF, FM and HD signals with a signal range of 50 miles.

www.channelmaster.com

I learned something that always puzzled me. Real channel vs virtual channel.The following is pasted from internet:

(The virtual channel number is the number you see that is displayed on the screen of the television screen.
The real channel broadcast number is the actual channel frequency in use by a the TV station to broadcast the TV signal.

The frequency spectrum is broken down into 3 bands.

VHF Low band. Real channels 2-6

VHF High band. Real channels 7-13

UHF band. Real channels 14 and up.)

So, let's say CH 4 existed before jump from analog to digital broadcasting. They kept using it, but they changed the frequency to a higher number. perhaps, it is an FCC ruling.

Before the latest higher UHF channel selloff last year it was decided that the VHF Low channels were difficult to receive when analog went to digital. So, in your example, when your analog channel 4 went to digital it was moved to, maybe, channel 36. Now, channel 36 is the 'actual' channel that transmits the signal but you will tune to that channel on 'virtual' channel 4. They did this so as not to confuse the viewer with a new channel number for the same station. I really think that was a big mistake. As with everything else people get used to something new and they would have gotten used to new channels numbers quickly. Instead it did nothing but get confusing by have actuals and virtuals. Oh well, it is what it is...

 

[navychop]

TheKrell: Agreed.

I used my StealthTenna in Burke, a suburban area.

 

[navychop]

thank u. I checked. Channel Master is selling it at $29.

STEALTHtenna 50

Channel Master STEALTHtenna (CM3010HD) is a Digital HDTV Outdoor TV Antenna and picks up UHF, VHF, FM and HD signals with a signal range of 50 miles.

www.channelmaster.com

I learned something that always puzzled me. Real channel vs virtual channel.The following is pasted from internet:

(The virtual channel number is the number you see that is displayed on the screen of the television screen.
The real channel broadcast number is the actual channel frequency in use by a the TV station to broadcast the TV signal.

The frequency spectrum is broken down into 3 bands.

VHF Low band. Real channels 2-6

VHF High band. Real channels 7-13

UHF band. Real channels 14 and up.)

So, let's say CH 4 existed before jump from analog to digital broadcasting. They kept using it, but they changed the frequency to a higher number. perhaps, it is an FCC ruling.

That is NOT the StealthTenna I had years ago. Totally different. Mine looked like a bat wing. But TheKrell is probably right- not good in rural areas.

All old analog antennas will work fine with digital, HD and UHD signals. Unless they are corroded or otherwise physically damaged. People that say otherwise remind me of a salesman in Best Buy, early into flat screens, telling a customer not to buy a plasma because it would need to be recharged in a few years.

 

[sktrus]

All old analog antennas will work fine with digital, HD and UHD signals.

Yep, I was wrong again. It wasn't an antenna issue when broadcasters went from analog to digital. I had a small tv I used in my cabin with a rabit antenna. I applied and was sent a digital converter box for that particular tv. The other tvs in the main house were fine since I was using Satellite service.

The Switch from Analog to Digital TV | Nielsen

Sam Sewall, Research Executive, The Nielsen Company On June 12, 2009, the FCC required all high-power analog U.S....

www.nielsen.com

 

[TheKrell]

That is NOT the StealthTenna I had years ago. Totally different. Mine looked like a bat wing.

Perhaps you had a real batwing antenna like I did.

This one is the Winegard Sensar III RV antenna. I had an unamplified Sensar II and it worked great on the roof for years before the damnable plastic mount broke. It never did get Baltimore stations reliably, though, which is why I switched to the deep fringe antenna I reported above. I can now get all Washington stations at 100%, all Baltimore stations at near 100%, WMPT in Annapolis at near 100%, and even some Hagerstown stations with what the Hoppper reports as "fair" signal strength. Lots of dropouts on Hagerstown stations so "fair" is not really watchable.

My experiment with different connections to airtv adapter failed. I am making wild assumption here. The antenna (terk 55) was installed 18 yrs ago before we switched from analog to digital. So, does it mean that antenna is obsolete now? I am determined to see this as a challenge and will keep pushing it!

I think the analog to digital transition didn't affect the problems you are seeing with the Terk, other than the issue many of us have encountered, which is that you could watch a snowy picture farther away than you can with ATSC where you might get little to nothing on your TV. IIRC they reduced the power for digital transmission, why I don't know.

Refresh my memory. Did you try running that antenna directly into a TV and have the same issues? If so, then it's not your AirTV adapter. Did you try taking that power injector out of the coax line, to see if there is any change? The amplified antennas I have used in the past basically don't work at all without power, i.e. the signal doesn't pass through the amp very well when it isn't on and working.

 

[sktrus]

Refresh my memory. Did you try running that antenna directly into a TV and have the same issues? If so, then it's not your AirTV adapter. Did you try taking that power injector out of the coax line, to see if there is any change? The amplified antennas I have used in the past basically don't work at all without power, i.e. the signal doesn't pass through the amp very well when it isn't on and working.

Well, I couldn't do your first suggestion.The main tv is not close to where the ant. coax and Hopper 3 are. They r away in a small homerun room under stairs on the same basement floor. All the cables to tvs r behind drywalls.

But, I ordered barrel connectors from Amazon. I will extend the coax cable and run it into tv's antenna input. (I have few unused ones. Rg6, Rg 59, does it matter?)
Yes, I took the coax from injector and attached to airtv tuner. Without preamp capability, I got nothing. Everything I thought of and tried resulted with zero!.

 

[Altitudinous]

RG6.

 

[sktrus]

RG6.

Thanks. In case some are interested in knowing the difference.
I am sure learning a lot here.

Difference Between RG6 and RG59

RG6 vs RG59 Coaxial cables, commonly called 'coax', are the cables that are commonly used for video and satellites installations. There are many kinds of cables to suit different applications, among which are the RG59

www.differencebetween.net

 

[sktrus]

I attempted again today with all 3 usb ports. Settings show that OTA tuner has been detected when I insert the airtv tuner. But, scanning does nothing. I tried to do something. Turned Hopper 3 off, pulled the tuner out of usb. after turning Hopper on, went to settings/ota channels. I noticed exactly the same message "An OTA Tuner has been detected."

Now, why is Hopper showing that when tuner is not attached? Or, does it mean that Hopper has the capability to be able to scan for OTA channels after inserting tuner?

Hopper 3 software version is U936. Do I need to call Dish cust. service to have them reset my system for any reason?

 

[Bobby]

No don’t call DISH. You have been trying this and that so much that Hopper is probably confused at the moment. Simply unplug the Hopper from AC power for a minute and then plug it back in. That should clear the anomaly.

 

[sktrus]

No don’t call DISH. You have been trying this and that so much that Hopper is probably confused at the moment. Simply unplug the Hopper from AC power for a minute and then plug it back in. That should clear the anomaly.

Thanks Bobby, I appreciate it.

 

[Ray M]

I got an antenna from amazon to work for my OTA, since I can get my local stations from OTA can I cancel my dish local package and still get a working guide on the Hopper for those stations?

 

[sktrus]

I got an antenna from amazon to work for my OTA, since I can get my local stations from OTA can I cancel my dish local package and still get a working guide on the Hopper for those stations?

Hey Ray; Read Bobby's post #3 on page 1. I believe Dish provides the guide with OTA channels.

 

[Ray M]

Hey Ray; Read Bobby's post #3 on page 1. I believe Dish provides the guide with OTA channels.

I am paying $12 a month for locals (NBC, CBS, Fox, ABC, and PBS) I can get these OTA but then I have two tuners for viewing and recording is not enough, also I was told that if I canceled the Local package I would loose the local guide for those channels without a guide I cannot record.

 

[pattykay]

I got an antenna from amazon to work for my OTA, since I can get my local stations from OTA can I cancel my dish local package and still get a working guide on the Hopper for those stations?

If you already have guide data on those OTA stations now, then yes, that guide data will continue to work even after you drop the locals. As you may already be aware, Dish does not provide guide data for every subchannel, or even for the main channel on some OTA stations. However, if Dish does provide guide data for the station, then that data works whether the receiver has a subscription or not.

 

[sktrus]

I am paying $12 a month for locals (NBC, CBS, Fox, ABC, and PBS) I can get these OTA but then I have two tuners for viewing and recording is not enough, also I was told that if I canceled the Local package I would loose the local guide for those channels without a guide I cannot record.

I am tired of that fee every month, too. But, I admit I like being able to use Prime time recording. Yeah, that tuner lets u record 2 at the same time or watch one and record the other (with ota). And u have to pick shows to record individually. (I learned all these from others).
Now, we have folks here who use ota. I am pretty sure they will answer u soon.

 

[pattykay]

Before the latest higher UHF channel selloff last year it was decided that the VHF Low channels were difficult to receive when analog went to digital. So, in your example, when your analog channel 4 went to digital it was moved to, maybe, channel 36. Now, channel 36 is the 'actual' channel that transmits the signal but you will tune to that channel on 'virtual' channel 4. They did this so as not to confuse the viewer with a new channel number for the same station. I really think that was a big mistake. As with everything else people get used to something new and they would have gotten used to new channels numbers quickly. Instead it did nothing but get confusing by have actuals and virtuals. Oh well, it is what it is...

I agree. They should have made the stations rebrand themselves with the new channel numbers. People say that it would have been too confusing to the viewers for all of the channels to suddenly get new channel numbers. Well, the time of the analog-to-digital transition would have been the perfect time to make that change, since people were already having to change the equipment that they were using to receive those locals. (Adding a digital-to-analog converter box, or subscribing to a lifeline basic cable package, for example.) So, make all of the changes all at once. Instead, they made it even more confusing on the channel scans, when it showed that it was receiving one channel number (actual channel) but then that channel appears on a completely different channel number (virtual channel) in the guide. (Even though the virtual channel is the old, familiar channel number.) Newer receivers now just show a progress bar when they scan, rather than showing the actual frequency being scanned, to help lessen this confusion. Even that progress bar makes it look like it is finding the stations in the wrong order, though.

The argument about not wanting to confuse the OTA viewers by making them learn a new channel number is a false argument. Let's not forget that the vast majority of viewers were receiving their locals from cable providers. So, not only were those viewers not affected by the need to use new equipment to receive their locals (thus lessening the confusion factor) but they have already been used to the cable provider putting many of those channels on channel numbers that do not match the actual channel number, for a long time before the digital transition ever started. Even if the station had to change its on-air branding to a different channel number, the cable channel number would not have changed. As long as viewers still knew to continue to tune to cable channel 2 to watch Fox programming (for example) then it would have been easy to get used to those channels now suddenly referring to themselves with a different channel number. Or, the stations could have dropped the channel numbers from their on-air branding altogether, and just called themselves something like "Fox San Francisco" instead. One last thing: those same cable viewers had to learn new channel numbers for all of their channels (not just the broadcast ones) every time the cable company felt like changing their channel lineup around. So, making OTA viewers learn new channel numbers for the broadcast stations at the time of the transition would have been no different from that.

Can you tell that the decision to use virtual channel numbers is one of my pet peeves? Okay, rant over.

 

[sktrus]

Good afternoon folks;
Wednesday, Dec 12th and the latest from me.

I received the barrel connectors from Amazon and did the following with a pleasant outcome clapping)

Remember the Terk 55 antenna has power injector where the coax cable ends. So, I connected a barell connector to the short cable coming from this injector. Then, an RG6 cable (spare cable from a box) to the barrel con. And the other end of this RG6 cable was inserted to an antenna input on a tv ( I brought from kitchen). I used the tv's (Vizio) scan feature. I couldn't believe tv found 43 stations!!.
I checked all of them. (The lowest number 5, the highest 67. Stations NBC 5.1 and 5.2 r coming from Cincinnati, 70 mile distance!) All networks and PBS from Lexington,KY (the closest market to me) and sub channels were available. Sure, some r 480i, some cropped. But vast majority are watchable. Even Fox looked realy good. Weird. It was the worst 18 yrs ago. for some reason CBS (WKYT-27) and its subs r slightly pixilated, but the sound is fine.

Not counting 3 shopping stations and 4 public tv stations (same, coming from different transmitters) I am able to get 36 stations. To be honest, I was shocked.

My questions to experts:

1- The antenna I ordered is coming soon. Is it foolish to replace what I have (terk55 in the attic) thinking I can get better signal for CBS?

2- The current antenna is hanging horizontally with a bracket from one of the roof rafters. It is not on a mount.Should I leave it alone or is it possible to slightly rotate to get CBS? I hate to lose some stations just to get unpixilated CBS.

3- Some here at forum r saying that a splitter degrades the picture quality. I have 4 tvs at home. Just wifey and I. No more than 2 tvs will be used at the same time (with ota and a splitter , no hopper 3 usb). I am thinking about getting a 4 way coax splitter. What should I be looking for? I'd rather spend few more bucks to getter better quality product. (This is just in case I cancel Dish in the future.)

4- Why is Hopper3 not receiving any ota station? Is it the Hopper or airttv tuner causing trouble?
If I had my choice, I would use ota with Hopper 3 to be able to record. Anything I should do?

As always, I appreciate your desire to offer suggestions. Thank You.