Iceberg said:you mean MeTV.
yes I also forgot out here we get the remap from the ktsc 45. ksax is our primary ota abc.
which stinks because no abc in hd
OTA EPG Info Incorrect or Displaying 'Digital Service'
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yes I also forgot out here we get the remap from the ktsc 45. ksax is our primary ota abc.
which stinks because no abc in hd
KSAX isnt in HD?
dang...
side note...I noticed your loc says Willmar. Are you able to pick up the low powered stations (from UHF TV Inc) there?
dang...
side note...I noticed your loc says Willmar. Are you able to pick up the low powered stations (from UHF TV Inc) there?
Iceberg said:
yes very well near 100. but i'm only se about 5 miles for the tower. I'm just using a little cheap rca yagi about 20 feet up and cheap rca antenna amp mainly because my coax run is about 100 feet . The only thing strange is ksax on low power UHF tower is analog on 30 so I pick up
that one and kcco direct
looks like Hubbard owns 30 so thats why it hasnt been upgraded to digital (the rest are owned by UHF TV Inc)
I just thought of something which places this with the broadcaster. I am retired now, but did setup for hd and the PSIP information. For the stations in this market, Wilkes-Barre/Scranton, the ones showing Digital Service send no extended description on thier PSIP. Those who do show up (16-2 and 44-2 and 3) use full description.. Others do the minimum, just the show name. BUT DIsh should pick up the show name and, if present, show description from the PSIP and not just show DIGITAL SERVICE if no description is show. My opinon is DISH does not know the PSIP format. But, again, this should correct itself as the FCC has ruled that all stations must show full description. The main stations (the -1 ones) simply get the information DIsh is given by the broadcasters program guide company for -0.
Dish effectively ignores ALL of the PSIP data transmitted by the stations except for the TSID. They take the TSID and attempt to match it up with the data they receive from Tribune Media. The stations presumably supply guide data to Tribune for ALL of the channels they broadcast. In turn, Dish only buys the guide data for stations they re-broadcast, hence why we never see guide data for local, independent stations (Dish doesn't carry them).
For the -1 channels, Dish does re-map the data. We've basically confirmed this during contract disputes when Dish replaces the satellite channel data with their "message" -- it gets repeated on the -1, OTA channel. The other sub-channels have the proper guide data. During contract disputes, Dish simply doesn't take the add'l steps to "block" those (if any).
In instances of channels reading "Digital Service" for stations that Dish does carry -- the whole point of this thread -- there is a mis-match of the TSIDs. The station is transmitting one TSID and Dish is looking for a different one. When they don't get a match, they default to "Digital Service". For some of us, this has been going on for months if not years. Some argue "the station is sending the wrong data" and that they should fix it.
For the -1 channels, Dish does re-map the data. We've basically confirmed this during contract disputes when Dish replaces the satellite channel data with their "message" -- it gets repeated on the -1, OTA channel. The other sub-channels have the proper guide data. During contract disputes, Dish simply doesn't take the add'l steps to "block" those (if any).
In instances of channels reading "Digital Service" for stations that Dish does carry -- the whole point of this thread -- there is a mis-match of the TSIDs. The station is transmitting one TSID and Dish is looking for a different one. When they don't get a match, they default to "Digital Service". For some of us, this has been going on for months if not years. Some argue "the station is sending the wrong data" and that they should fix it.
Our Local KSCW station 033-1 has always had the correct guide info until a few weeks ago. At that time a new channel 031-1 was added, a local Univision channel. Ever since then the CW channel has had the Univision guide info. Really screws up my timers for Supernatural and Smallville. Emailed Dish and I got the standard reboot recommendations, when that didn't work they had me send all my receiver info to them and they said they would forward it to the techs, no fix yet.
This crap is still not fixed. Unbelievable.
Here's an e-mail I sent to both Dish's 'feedback' email and 'quality' email:
Hehe, sent almost a year ago....
Here's part of an e-mail exchange I had with the engineers at the above station ... over 2+ years ago !!
They CALLED Dish Network (and yes, they do have a 'special' phone number) to get this sorted out. Look where we still are today...7/9/09
Good morning Mr Stone
Could you help with a Dish Network related problem ?
When WPTD (and WPTO) switched off analog, you also switched your sub-channels around. 16(14)-5 became 16(14)-1. Not sure if anything else changed based on the messed-up guide I currently receive but I do know that my daughter has tried to record "Curious George" at least twice off of 16-2 (??) but ends up with a different program.
Dish or whoever they get their guide data from hasn't updated things on their end yet. As I understand it, Dish's receivers that are also OTA-capable do not use the PSIP data sent by stations either. From a customer's standpoint, their support people simply won't listen when this is attempted to be explained. Any errors in the guide data will be blamed on the station. I haven't hooked up my old digital set-top to confirm this but I presume you have correct guide data for all of the sub-channels.
My understanding of the guide data is that Dish's receivers do "read" the "TSID" and then cross-reference or map that to guide data they purchase, which is in turn displayed on our receivers. Does that make any sense to you ? I could be completely wrong, of course.
Anyway, I presume that stations have more *direct* access to the engineering side at Dish Network and can get things done quicker and maybe easier. Can you help ?
That makes sense, too, as I know how dish gets the data for the ones they carry, BUT the PBS in this market has multi channels and only ONE, the main, is carried on DISH, but DISH has program data for ALL of their sub channels. Dish must be doing something.
In what market does Dish carry ANY sub-channels ? None that I know of. In the case of a local station that carries, say "NBC" on -1 and "WB" on -2, that doesn't count as they are unique networks.
Thats the issue I have now that 45 decided to remap to 5-45. Dish carries the actual channel (KSTC 45) and the TSID info is there. They just need to change it to point to the right channel.
Heck my DTVPal (which Dish made) works just fine and shows the right guide info....yeah I know the Pal gets the TV listings elsewhere
what do you mean that doesn't count? If its subchannel its a subchannel. Doesnt matter if its Fox, Cw, My, Telemundo, or a public access channel. As long as DIsh carries it, its a subchannel
But if you want an example, here in Minneapolis they carry both the "main" PBS (KTCA2) 2-1 and TPTLife which is 2-3 (when it was analog it was on 17)
Best example I can think of a subchannel that isnt a "network" per se is in the Belo owned NW markets (sans Portland) they carry Northwest Cable News which is a subchannel on Belo stations
Let me be more specific: IF the sub-channel is a stand-alone network and Dish carries it, it's a different scenario. My local PBS has (5) total channels. Dish only carries (1) (the -1). My local ABC is 22-1 and they have CoolTV on 22-2. Dish only carries the -1. My local CBS has the main channel, -1, and "Weather Now" on -2. Dish doesn't carry the -2.
I guess it depends on the market. Here in Minneapolis Dish carries subchannel info for a few channels
2-2 The MN channel (subchannel of PBS)
ironically 2-3 which Dish carries on 17 (from example above) doesnt show guide info
23-2 CoolTV (although the guide is off by an hour)
11-2 which is just weather 24/7 so this one makes no sense
Then the 2 KSTP/KSTC issues. They use to have guide info for
5-2 which was news repeats and repeats of other locals shows and 45-1 which was KSTC 45
Now that they moved to 45-5 (formerly 5-2) and 5-45 guide info shows digital service. These 2 are just a repoint of the TSID info
2-2 The MN channel (subchannel of PBS)
ironically 2-3 which Dish carries on 17 (from example above) doesnt show guide info
23-2 CoolTV (although the guide is off by an hour)
11-2 which is just weather 24/7 so this one makes no sense
Then the 2 KSTP/KSTC issues. They use to have guide info for
5-2 which was news repeats and repeats of other locals shows and 45-1 which was KSTC 45
Now that they moved to 45-5 (formerly 5-2) and 5-45 guide info shows digital service. These 2 are just a repoint of the TSID info
Here is what doesnt make sense. According to another site DIsh shuld be providing the EPG for all the PBS in your market (assume Dayton). Here is the list for your market
OTA Program Guide Data:
2-01 WDTN TSID 0x08E1, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 5252/7427)
2-02 WDTN2 TSID 0x08E1, Subchannel 02 (DISH Channel 14682)
7-01 WHIO TSID 0x08E3, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 5251/7426)
7-02 WHIO2 TSID 0x08E3, Subchannel 02 (DISH Channel 14946)
16-01 WPTD TSID 0x08E5, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 7431)
16-03 WPTD3 TSID 0x08E5, Subchannel 03 (DISH Channel 14244)
16-04 WPTD4 TSID 0x08E5, Subchannel 04 (DISH Channel 14245)
16-05 WPTD5 TSID 0x08E5, Subchannel 05 (DISH Channel 14246)
16-06 WPTD2 TSID 0x08E5, Subchannel 06 (DISH Channel 14247)
22-01 WKEF TSID 0x08E7, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 5250/7425)
26-01 WBDT TSID 0x08FF, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 7429)
26-02 WBDT2 TSID 0x08FF, Subchannel 02 (DISH Channel 15301)
45-01 WRGT TSID 0x08E9, Subchannel 01 (DISH Channel 5253/7428)
45-02 WRGT2 TSID 0x08E9, Subchannel 02 (DISH Channel 15012)
No, no, no ... I'm not referring to guide data (yeah, I know, that's the topic of this thread but we went off-track slightly
). Using your example, does Dish CARRY or RETRANSMIT "CoolTV", channel 23-2, in your area ? I presume the answer is 'no'. Presuming they do carry channel 23-1 (no idea what it is), you likely in turn get guide data for 23-2.
WPTD has been messed up for years. I can only presume that Dish is looking for a different -- or WRONG -- TSID.
How do they differentiate the sub-channels since the TSIDs are the same ?
22-2, WKEF, CoolTV, is missing (as is the guide data for it).
Dish receivers can receive DTV over the air (either by it being built in or a add-on). Since the 2nd generation of digital receivers, all digital receivers (other than DISH) receive and can display EPG. This is nothing that DISH has to send for the sub channels. The receivers have to get that information tied to the guide. Probably a very simple item.. IF GuideIno(ThisStation)="Digital Service" then GuideInfo(ThisStation) = OTAReceiver(thisStation).GuideInfo. In other worlds, if this stations guide info is "Digital Service" then use the program guide from the PSIP of this digital over the air station. I just do not know how the FCC allows this since they REQUIRE it for digital receivers.
I've read this many, many times and don't doubt that it's true, but do you have a link to the actual FCC 'rule' ?
