OPPO UDP-203 4K Blu-ray Player

[gadgtfreek]

Excuse me, but $1200 isn't going to be a commercially viable product. I can't imagine sufficient sales to support such a price point.

They have had a BDP 95 and 105 at that price point for several generations...

Im going the route as mentioned above, Oppo 203 and I put Roku Ultra on preorder. Will prob sell the Xbox S, as much as I like it for streaming it has been buggy for discs so I dont use it, and it takes up a lot of room. I may sell the Panasonic too, not sure.

I am going to use the HDMI in on the Oppo for the Directv box.

 

[harshness]

Here's my specific concern ( and this is just a guess ) HDCP by its purpose is to prevent a connection flow that the HDMI input on the 203 is purposed to do, one source, one sink and nothing in between.

Are you sure about this "one source, one sink" criterion?

The primary purpose of HDCP as I understand it is to insure that none of the sinks, however many there might be, can make durable copies of the content.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Glad to see Oppo as acknowledged to need people have for SDR BT2020 10 bit and seem to be offering that among other things. As well as my HDfury works, just another device in the chain...

 

[TheForce]

Are you sure about this "one source, one sink" criterion?

Yes, but the exception was for the AVR which technically is multiple sinks on the inputs but the exception was granted ( I assume) because the sinks are only active one at a time. The idea that HDCP prevents daisy chaining of devices between the source and the display. Technically, one could gain access to the digital signal after the inserted device input where the HDCP would be removed. For example, a UHD player could receive an upstream video source and store it decrypted, then save a copy for later playback.

If the 203 operates in a no touch pass through mode, then the thing should work but the inbound video would not be able to be manipulated by the player. It would appear like a female to female HDMI coupler.

Some people were trying to do this with the HD Fury, but I don't believe anyone was successful. Instead, they were only able to use it in pass through mode and the HD Fury became an expensive information analyzer. The theory was to decrypt the UHD signal and convert it to a different sampling rate by fooling the source with sending a display EDID artificially. I discovered that doesn't work a couple years ago when trying to record VUDU 3D content in frame packed. It can only be done by decrypting the signal with the analog hole. People I know with the HD Fury for signal conversion finally removed it as doing absolutely nothing except an info display inserter.

 

[harshness]

For example, a UHD player could receive an upstream video source and store it decrypted, then save a copy for later playback.

Theoretically, this can't happen. In order to receive HDMI certification, the sink device CANNOT store the content it receives through its HDMI input(s).

As I understand it, HDMI+HDCP can support dozens of devices all displaying at once as long as each and every device reports back (directly or indirectly) that it can't record and it can handle the negotiated display mode.

Muxlab makes a HDCP compliant matrix switcher that will drive eight displays. Black Box and BluStream (Australia) also offer multi-sink solutions that include HDCP 2.2 support. The existence of such products would seem to invalidate the idea that multiple displays under HDCP aren't supported.

 

[TheForce]

Theoretically, this can't happen. In order to receive HDMI certification, the sink device CANNOT store the content it receives through its HDMI input(s).

That's not accurate. You are stating HDCP and writing HDMI. I have an HDMI device in my computer right now that has HDMI input that is an HD recorder card. What it can't do is record HDMI sources that are HDCP encrypted. If your HDMI has HDCP encryption, it is possible to strip the HDCP with the analog hole method and then make the copy. Audio, will also get stripped with these signal flows, but you can add it back as DD5.1 using a toslink source and the card will accept that as well. You can do a little more reading on this with a search on the Blackmagic Declink hardware.

I originally began to research a way to record my purchases of 3D VUDU content I bought just in case VUDU went out of business. So, I installed a collection of hardware to do this. It was not easy but it works. Unfortunately, due to the decompression and recompression in the process the PQ suffered with a noticeable softness. However, I have all my VUDU content stored on a hard drive now. It's watchable but a reminder of how much lower quality we had with the analog HD video. 4K would really take a big hit, I'm sure. As for storing VUDU content- I have since learned that either the PS3 or the XBOX360 can download the VUDU movies to local storage, but I haven't tried it yet. That would certainly be much easier than my Blackmagic card system.

Muxlab makes a HDCP compliant matrix switcher...

I'm not saying it isn't technically possible, just returning to the original statement, unless the specs say it supports HDCP 2.2, I won't assume it does. As Ilya said, the official final specs aren't out yet. But, if OPPO can accept HDCP 2.2 input from that Roku 4K HDR box then the combo would be a very nice package. Personally, I assume nothing unless it is stated. One thing is certain, a licensing agency is free to make exceptions to their requirements all they wish.

 

[harshness]

I have an HDMI device in my computer right now that has HDMI input that is an HD recorder card. What it can't do is record HDMI sources that are HDCP encrypted.

That's how it is supposed to work with HDMI devices that don't support HDCP. To class a device that can record and doesn't support HDCP with those that cannot record and do support HDCP is folly. You've painted the entire landscape of HDMI/HDCP as a 1:1 source to sink relationship and that's simply not the case.

If your HDMI has HDCP encryption, it is possible to strip the HDCP with the analog hole method and then make the copy.

Probably not with any recent consumer class set-top devices that support HDCP.

I'm not saying it isn't technically possible, just returning to the original statement, unless the specs say it supports HDCP 2.2, I won't assume it does.

That's a whole different issue from what you can or cannot do with HDMI or HDCP.

One thing is certain, a licensing agency is free to make exceptions to their requirements all they wish.

Not as long as one licensee has contract they can't. They can issue new versions and invalidate the keys of those who violate their contract but they can't change a specific version after they've issued licenses for it.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Well, Oppo digitals site has no blu-ray players for sale, and they are going new for $900 on Amazon, so me thinks the presale is about to begin.

I went ahead and sold my hd fury so I could get the jump on everyone else that may have the same idea LOL.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Soon. Will be able to strip HDR and maintain 2020 10 bit color.

 

[jevans64]

That one, the third from the top, and 11 stacks down, has my name on it. It is about time since I have a stack of 15 4K movies waiting to be watched.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Ive pretty much come to the conclusion I like UHD with WCG only, HDR stripped, so the 203 is going to be my only option. HDR on my display looks good at times, other times it causes issues, just isnt worth it. Coupling the Panny with a Fury to strip HDR works great, but cost is high and it adds more crap to your video chain.

Oppo should be able to support 4k/24 BT 2020 with no HDR, so I am just waiting.

 

[teachsac]

Ive pretty much come to the conclusion I like UHD with WCG only, HDR stripped, so the 203 is going to be my only option. HDR on my display looks good at times, other times it causes issues, just isnt worth it. Coupling the Panny with a Fury to strip HDR works great, but cost is high and it adds more crap to your video chain.

Oppo should be able to support 4k/24 BT 2020 with no HDR, so I am just waiting.

Completely understand where you are coming from. HDR10 is way too inconsistent across titles. Maybe DV will be more consistent. Like Joe, SDR WCG looks much better consistently than HDR10.

S~

 

[gadgtfreek]

It sucks because I see bright spots in movies, where you know HDR is working, but other odd things like black level mastering and gamma are wonky, and then how displays are acting in HDR mode. Plus you have fox mastering HDR on LCD's, how is that supposed to apply to OLED.

With the Panny and the Fury, it was real nice because my pro cal was intact and things looked great. Shame, but I have experimented enough at this point, know I like the format, but just have to hold off on HDR for now. Maybe in a couple of years this will be worked out.

What amusing is more folks are realizing that, but you have to be careful where you say it, because when you say you dont like HDR at AVS, man people will jump on you. I chalk that to reference vs preference.

 

[TheForce]

Ive pretty much come to the conclusion I like UHD with WCG only, HDR stripped, so the 203 is going to be my only option. HDR on my display looks good at times, other times it causes issues, just isnt worth it. Coupling the Panny with a Fury to strip HDR works great, but cost is high and it adds more crap to your video chain.

Oppo should be able to support 4k/24 BT 2020 with no HDR, so I am just waiting.

I agree that HDR is over sold and under delivered; that it is also inconsistently applied. Fortunately, my projector ( Sony VPL VW-665ES) allows me to set BT2020 color gamut and HDR ON or OFF. With latest firmware, it also detects the HDR meta data, displays it's presence in the info menu and offers an HDR slider to adjust it but when present, I need to set the slider all the way to maximum anyway. I have presets for UHD with HDR and UHD without HDR. So when I watch 4K content, I pick whether I want the HDR to impact the presentation or not. Plus I have a preset for the projector that is used for 4K with BT709 or 8 bit color. All You Tube content is 8 bit and no HDR on any 4K content.

Last evening I watched an Amazon new release Grand Tour that was in UHD and my projector detected HDR. Mostly the content looked perfect and then there were a couple scenes where the color in the flesh tones clipped, as in illegal color range. Made the guy's face look like he had serious third degree burn spots from being in a fire, then the next scene he was fine. This was an Amazon Production. As the program continued there were more scenes that had some of the color clipped. This is a case where setting the HDR to off at the projector, yet keeping BT2020 fixed all scenes. The bright scenes with some bright highlights were a tad less bright in the highlights with the HDR off, but overall average looked the same. the advantage of HDR was very subtle and only seemed to affect the contrast between the bright highlights and the average. But when it clips, something was missed in the edit.

 

[gadgtfreek]

With HDR ON on my Roku Ultra, the Grand Tour looks but it is obvious some of the colors are blown out.

 

[TheForce]

Right now, my opinion of the state of the art WRT HDR is that the guys in production are still learning and when they play with it, we have to guess where to set things. When it right, it adds a little improvement to the image quality, but when done wrong it looks disastrous. I will continue to test and if there are problems, it is easy to set the HDR to OFF and watch a slightly limited contrast range. The loss with HDR off is not that much from what I have seen. But, the new expanded color gamut with BT2020 and the resolution upgrade of UHD over 2K HD is very much welcomed.

Given a choice to improve HT entertainment- I would want 3D 4K over HDR. Sony Reality Creation upscale of 3D looks great, but native 4K 3D would be even better!

 

[gadgtfreek]

S&V with a little sneak peak. Gotta think this thing is close.

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/oppo-does-ultra-hd#E35QS1f0kg06LmgR.97

While its exact price is still under review, the UBD-203 should launch at between $500 and $600. The player looks to be about the same size as the company’s smallest current BD player, BDP-103, making it slightly shorter than Oppo’s upscale BDP-105. It wouldn’t be surprising if Oppo comes out with a premier UHD model (a UBD-205, perhaps?) at a later date, but we don’t anticipate more than the UBD-203 for now.

Unlike the current Samsung and Philips players, but like the pricier Panasonic DMP-UB900, the Oppo offers a front-panel display. (Our review of the Panasonic will be posted in the coming weeks.)

In addition to Ultra HD discs (including HDR10 high dynamic range, with a later firmware update promised for Dolby Vision), the UBD-203 will play back Blu-ray, Blu-ray 3D, DVD, DVD-Audio, SACD, and audio CD. It will decode audio-only formats as well: AIFF, WAV, ALAC, APE, and FLAC. It also plays DSD (Direct-Stream Digital) audio files in stereo DSD64/128 or multi-channel DSD64. It will decode all current audio formats for audio on video, up to and including Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio, and output them either in PCM or bitstream. When set for a bitstream output it will support sources carrying immersive audio formats such as Dolby Atmos and DTS:X.

There are two HDMI outputs, one for audio only and the other for both audio and video (allowing for a separate audio connection to older AVRs and pre-pros that can’t pass UHD). Two USB 3.0 ports on the back panel (and a third on the front) allow for media file playback. The latter are fed by 32-bit digital to analog converters from AKM of Japan.

Built-in Wi-Fi or wired Ethernet can also connect to a user’s home network to access media files stored on computers and home servers. There’s also an HDMI 2.0 input for external streaming devices and set-top boxes, and both digital and analog 7.1-channel audio outputs.


Read more at http://www.soundandvision.com/content/oppo-does-ultra-hd#Vdbh2IDHsVmP54Qe.99

 

[gadgtfreek]

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/dmpub700-201612114390.htm

So what are other 4K UHD BD players getting wrong? Full credit has to go to Stacey Spears of the reference Spears and Munsil test disc fame, although we were alerted to the problem by film producer and Home Cinema Choice columnist Jon Thompson. Currently SpectraCal‘s chief colour scientist, Spears discovered that Samsung’s UBD-K8500 deck is using the wrong chroma resampling method for BT.2020 4:2:0 content found on 4K Blu-ray discs, resulting in a marginally softer picture.

Here’s the nitty-gritty. In BT.709 4:2:0 content, chroma is co-sited with luma in the horizontal direction, and interstitially in the vertical direction. With BT.2020 however, chroma has been specced to be co-sited vertically too. Manufacturers who don’t realise this will be applying BT709 maths for BT2020 material such as UHD BD, causing chroma to be shifted vertically by half a pixel (+0.5 vertical Y-C delay). Here’s an illustration of the difference between Rec.709 and Rec.2020 4:2:0 chroma layout (diagrams inspired by a Panasonic presentation):

BT.709 4:2:0 BT.2020 4:2:0
To be fair, this loss in chroma resolution is unlikely to be noticed by most viewers, due to the ultra-high resolution of 3840×2160 content, and the fact that our eyes are inherently less sensitive to chroma than luma information anyway (which is the underlying basis for 4:4:4 to 4:2:2 or 4:2:0 chroma subsampling). Nevertheless, it’s reassuring to see a brand like Panasonic pay full attention to the specs to deliver the cleanest, most pristine picture that’s faithful to the director’s intentions. According to a reliable industry source, it is this Chroma Bug 2020 bug (as coined by Spears) that’s causing OPPO to temporarily hold back the release of its UDP-203 UHD Blu-ray player while waiting for a firmware fix.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Oppo presale is live, ships in 2-3 days. Ordering mine now. Seems DV is coming later and it is confirmed HDR to SDR BT2020 output.

 

[gadgtfreek]

Well, they had some cart issues, I guess demand, but got mine done with 2 day shipping. Cant wait!