OFFICIAL DISH / FOX ORDEAL DISCUSSION THREAD

[gokamoto]

It seems that the Fox-Cablevision dispute may actually end up helping Dish with its Dish-Cablevision dispute over MSG. Fox pointed out the hypocrisy of Cablevision asked for arbitration with Fox while Cablevision refused to accept arbitration with Dish.

But late in the day Tuesday, Cablevision issued a statement agreeing to submit to arbitration in the Dish case, making the company’s position consistent in both disputes and, executives said, undermining the News Corporation charges of hypocrisy.

In making the concession to accept arbitration in a deal to sell programming to Dish, MSG seemed to be taking a stand that could potentially cost the company money because it would most likely receive fees considerably lower that it could achieve by withholding its programming to pressure Dish.

Cablevision-News Corp. Fight Intensifies - NYTimes.com

 

[chum1976]

In an interview that I heard yesterday with Dennis Swanson, who is with Fox, it seems that sports has something to do with them asking so much money. They want to be able to bid against ESPN for things like College Football, NFL, MLB, and Nascar. Dennis Swanson did mention about loosing some collegiate sports to ESPN, recently.
The radio host then mentioned that nobody would get a deal like ESPN's. I think he mentioned that they get $4 per subscriber. He said ESPN was just in the right place at the right time. I'm not sure what the deal is, or when it was signed with ESPN, or even why they got such a great deal with the providers, but it sounded like this was one of Fox's major concerns.

Our local FOX news sports reporter said the same thing. They want to compete with ESPN and I dont blame them. Infact in the long run it may be better for everyone if FOX/ESPN can compete against each other on a more level playing field.

 

[spiketoo]

Maybe this question has already been covered in this thread, but at 198 pages I wouldn't begin to know where to find it. Regarding the NBA League Pass, if the feed for a team's home game is provided by one of the Fox RSN's(let's say the Lakers on Fox Sports West), will you be able to watch those games on LP this season or not and will they be in HD? I've read conflicting reports on how this is all going to shake down and with the season starting next week I need to decide whether I should keep Dish or go to DIRECTV, who I know will have all the games in HD for certain.

All I can tell you is how it currently is for hockey's Center Ice pkg. You'll get the FSN feed but only in SD. Your home team will be blacked on LP as the league states you must get your home market on your local RSN (which is not available if a FSN in dispute). There a few HD feeds from a couple of FSNs not in dispute as well as a few CSNs. Go with D* - that's what I'm doing this weekend for hockey.

 

[TheKrell]

They want to be able to bid against ESPN for things like College Football, NFL, MLB, and Nascar.

I cannot express how much contempt I have for this idea. Fox wants to charge customers outrageous fees in advance so that they can potentially outbid ESPN? Ha! Dish should go direct to the source, outbid Fox AND ESPN for these sports events, and then dictate terms to Fox.

 

[Brent72]

All I can tell you is how it currently is for hockey's Center Ice pkg. You'll get the FSN feed but only in SD. Your home team will be blacked on LP as the league states you must get your home market on your local RSN (which is not available if a FSN in dispute). There a few HD feeds from a couple of FSNs not in dispute as well as a few CSNs. Go with D* - that's what I'm doing this weekend for hockey.

That's kind of how I figured it was going to be. I guess if the dispute with Fox isn't settled by Nov. 1st I'll have no choice but to switch from Dish to Direct because all the Lakers games are on Fox Sports West and I want them in HD.

 

[Devastator665]

Things do not look for NBA if the Center Ice package shows any precedent. The key to understand is that any channel that is part of the dispute is currently NOT available in any form of HD on Center Ice. I can't fathom that HD feeds would be available for NBA but not NHL.

I complained on 4 different occasions to Dish about the Center Ice and how unfair it is that they charge the same price for a package that is completely watered down. They finally gave me 171$ credit for it... at least they said they would... (waiting for my next statement)

In any case, I think anyone who has a season ticket, or is planning to get one needs to complain about this! Some of the sales people don't know anything and say "oh its not effected by the dispute" but it CLEARLY is. Don't settle for it.. Tell dish you will eat the ETF if necessary to switch to a competitor. Even if its a bluff (it worked for me)

 

[Supershooters]

I cannot express how much contempt I have for this idea. Fox wants to charge customers outrageous fees in advance so that they can potentially outbid ESPN? Ha! Dish should go direct to the source, outbid Fox AND ESPN for these sports events, and then dictate terms to Fox.

DISH does enough dictating already!

 

[Ghpr13]

I might be off base here, but I think what should change is that any channel that has paid advertisements on it should be limited to what they can charge carriers. I not talking about promos for upcoming shows on that channel, but channels that have real commercials. Those channels are "double dipping" as I see it. They get money from running commercials, and money from the carriers for the same programming. The problem now being, as with Fox, they will be able to sell commercial time for a higher rate because they are forcing carriers to expand the number of subscribers by asking for their programming to be in lower cost tiers, yet, they then want to charge the carriers more for the privilege of carrying their programming because of the number of subscribers who get it.
Let's go back to when subscribing to pay TV meant no commercials, because you are paying to view those channels.

Ghpr13

 

[Brent72]

Things do not look for NBA if the Center Ice package shows any precedent. The key to understand is that any channel that is part of the dispute is currently NOT available in any form of HD on Center Ice. I can't fathom that HD feeds would be available for NBA but not NHL.

I complained on 4 different occasions to Dish about the Center Ice and how unfair it is that they charge the same price for a package that is completely watered down. They finally gave me 171$ credit for it... at least they said they would... (waiting for my next statement)

In any case, I think anyone who has a season ticket, or is planning to get one needs to complain about this! Some of the sales people don't know anything and say "oh its not effected by the dispute" but it CLEARLY is. Don't settle for it.. Tell dish you will eat the ETF if necessary to switch to a competitor. Even if its a bluff (it worked for me)

So, just to clarify, they gave you a $171 credit for Center Ice because the games aren't in HD? How much was the package to begin with? I've already been charged 2 installments of $44.75 for League Pass and when the games start next week if they're not in HD(which I'm sure they won't be) I will definitely be contacting them for either a large credit or a full refund.

By the way, one of my friends called customer service and got the exact same "the NBA package isn't affected by the Fox/Dish dispute" line. Clearly they have no idea what's going on.

 

[Devastator665]

What happened was I simply explained (while talking to an online rep) that Center Ice was clearly effected by the dispute, which the agent surprisingly agreed with that time. I said that DirecTV was offering NHL center ice for the same price but all games were in HD as well as home and away feeds, and I rambled a bit more about how I was on the brink of paying the ETF and switching and out of the blue she said I'm sorry about your frustration I can give you 171 dollar credit. I should note that I payed the 171 early bird price for NHL center ice before the season even began so I felt really ripped off. Again it is also worth noting that its not even just lack of HD but the NHL master feeds that they have to provide look like VHS quality, I mean absolutely terrible (worse than streaming a bad quality online at times)

I think the key to getting a credit is persistence and knowing your facts. It is like the old saying goes "Squeeky wheel gets the oil." Of course it helps to get an agent that actually does understand that the dispute is clearly effecting the package.

Unfortunately until the NBA season starts it might be difficult to put an argument together since technically your reacting to the unknown.

Hopefully this ridiculous dispute gets fixed soon. Dish Network has to be feeling the pressure, and Fox is doing a heck of a smear campaign. Hopefully the Cablevision thing helps get the Dish dispute resolved as well.

 

[6467CardsFan8206]

I agree with you. These disputes are ridiculous, and are not necessary, but I hope this thing can end real soon, because, I'm missing my sports, too!

 

[The Fat Man]

How much do you pay for The Movie Channel per month? Black out all of the private information and show me how much you pay for The Movie Channel.

It doesn't matter how much I pay, if I don't want an offering, and Dish gives me an option to not have it, it shouldn't be up to a network to change my and Dish's agreement. THAT'S IT! END OF STORY! YOU MAKE NO SENSE WITH ALL THIS BOUNCING AROUND!

 

[cparker]

I switched. And to anyone considering it because of the sports affected, please also keep in mind when making your decision that these disputes can happen to any provider. I made sure I explained that to my wife before we made our final decision. "We could go to D* only to find them in a similar position in the future."

I really don't think the strong arm tactics by either party involved in the dispute are helping anyone. Especially subscribers. Oh it's great that "capitalism in action" is out there and "it's just business" is out there, but it affects a lot of people. There's all this talk of carriage rights and retransmit rights, but never any mention of subscriber's rights. Know why? Because we basically don't have any.

Maybe THAT's what needs to change. In medicine there's a "Patients Bill of Rights" that has been adopted by every medical facillity I know of in some form or another. Maybe subscribers ... whether cable, satellite, whatever, also need to band together as a coalition to lobby for subscriber's rights. A coalition of subscribers would be a HUGE lobby force as it's almost everyone in the US. Maybe we need to take the system and put it to work for US.

And yes, I'm volunteering to quit my job and be a lobbyist for the coalition. I mean, what the heck, I already have contacts enough to get started. So anyone that wants to kick in to the Subscriber's Coalition coffers..... I mean.... I'd still have to replace my salary at least .... feel free to start sending me money.

Seriously though.... think about this (not the ME part... the coalition lobby part).... it's not a bad idea.

 

[Greg Bimson]

It doesn't matter how much I pay, if I don't want an offering, and Dish gives me an option to not have it, it shouldn't be up to a network to change my and Dish's agreement. THAT'S IT! END OF STORY! YOU MAKE NO SENSE WITH ALL THIS BOUNCING AROUND!

"Programming is subject to change"

It's right there in the agreement you signed with Dish Network. So it doesn't matter if a network does "change my and Dish's agreement"; the agreement you signed gives Dish Network the right to change programming in any package.

 

[Lifterguy]

While I sort of like the idea of a subscriber's coalition, I think the challenge would be getting subscribers to agree on what they want. Some will want a rate cap. Others would want all channels to be sold ala-cart, while others might push for a ban on cable & satellite companies owning the channels that they distribute. Those ideas (and many others that have been discussed here) all have their merits - and their downsides. I suggest first drafting your Subscriber's Bill of Rights - be prepared for the blow-back from those who don't like at least some element of it - evaluate the feedback and revise your Bill of Rights (if necessary) and then see how many people you can get to sign-on. If you have a solid plan of action and enough people behind you, there's a chance (slim) that our corporate controlled government will take notice and do something.

 

[dalgoda]

Just a stupid question

Hey Guys,

Please don't chew me up and spit me out if this has already been asked....

But...why isn't any of this bothering DirecTV at the moment? I mean, I'm a Dish customer and I want all of this to be ironed out as soon as possible because I feel like I'm not getting what I am paying for. The Disney/ABC deal seems to be on the back burner now while all of this FOX stuff is going on. But, both things bother me greatly when I pay that monthly bill.
I look at DirecTV (which I consider the dark side) and wonder why they still have everything and Dish doesn't?
I don't mean to ask a dumb question, just need some understanding.

 

[lparsons21]

At the moment, D* doesn't have any contracts that are expiring, which explains why they aren't having issues right now. But they have had them, and if what is going on now with E* and Cablevision, will probably have some in the future. That said, Charlie is more aggressive in these things and it oft times results in more drama.

As to D* 'having everything', they don't by a long shot. Yes they have more sports, but they are missing a pretty big chunk of national HD channels (like AMC, BBCA, etc).

 

[DodgerKing]

At the moment, D* doesn't have any contracts that are expiring, which explains why they aren't having issues right now. But they have had them, and if what is going on now with E* and Cablevision, will probably have some in the future. That said, Charlie is more aggressive in these things and it oft times results in more drama.

As to D* 'having everything', they don't by a long shot. Yes they have more sports, but they are missing a pretty big chunk of national HD channels (like AMC, BBCA, etc).

With the exception of Versus (which few subs even cared about), I don't recall any other issue with Direct and a network, particularly as big as this. Dish is the only provider I know of that has an issue with 3 different networks at the same time (ACB, Fox, and MSG)

 

[lparsons21]

With the exception of Versus (which few subs even cared about), I don't recall any other issue with Direct and a network, particularly as big as this. Dish is the only provider I know of that has an issue with 3 different networks at the same time (ACB, Fox, and MSG)

Hence the 'drama' comment!

But given the level of talks these days, with more than one content provider and more than one distributor, you can expect more of these contentious types of 'negotiations' not less, imo.

 

[StonesCat]

Dish is kind of like the crazy stock that goes up and down, Directv is kind of the flat-line long-term safe solution. You just have to choose whether you want some excitement with new channels and new channels in HD, with the possibility of some channels going away, or getting one or two in HD once in a while, or every couple years when a new sat goes up. But, probably not losing much. I choose Dish's variety, some choose Directv's stability.