Not 190,000 - Not 115,000 - Maybe only 90,000

[navychop]

From this link:

Transformers HD-DVD
Week Ending 10/21/07 = 89,871 Units (First Week sales as reported in VideoScan First Alert) ...Paramount isn't disputing

"In an overreaching effort to make a press claim - the #1 high def title position for any format - for Transformers, they've gone beyond exaggeration. Here's the dumb lie: they've claimed to sell 100K in one day and 190K in one week. Exact point of sale data from 3 retailers that make up 62% of the high-def market show sales of 73K units for the week. Being very generous, they could possibly reach 125K-130K, which would barely set a record for HD-DVD. And they couldn't have flooded rental stores since Blockbuster doesn't stock HD-DVD. It’s an outrage. They think they can say whatever they want and that no one will call them on it. They need to be called on it."


The quote is from a Blu-ray competitor. But the facts are there.

Read the article. Much more there than I quoted here.

 

[John Kotches]

From this link:

Transformers HD-DVD
Week Ending 10/21/07 = 89,871 Units (First Week sales as reported in VideoScan First Alert) ...Paramount isn't disputing

"In an overreaching effort to make a press claim - the #1 high def title position for any format - for Transformers, they've gone beyond exaggeration. Here's the dumb lie: they've claimed to sell 100K in one day and 190K in one week. Exact point of sale data from 3 retailers that make up 62% of the high-def market show sales of 73K units for the week. Being very generous, they could possibly reach 125K-130K, which would barely set a record for HD-DVD. And they couldn't have flooded rental stores since Blockbuster doesn't stock HD-DVD. It’s an outrage. They think they can say whatever they want and that no one will call them on it. They need to be called on it."


The quote is from a Blu-ray competitor. But the facts are there.

Read the article. Much more there than I quoted here.

1. The three retailers make up 62% of sales over time not for every title. To interpolate the aggregate sales to be valid for a single title's sales is a bit of a reach.
2. An extrapolation of an interpolation?
3. Blu-ray says whatever they want too. Both sides have been playing fast and loose with the facts
4. Is HD-DVD dead yet? It's been announced at least 4 times by the Blu-ray side that it's dead. Yet here we are talking about significant sales of an HD-DVD title.

 

[navychop]

Did you read the article? Videoscan First Alert is the source for just under 90,000 selling the first week, not any Blu-ray supporter.

And how did that SEC investigation into "incorrect" reporting of Shrek 2 sales turn out?

 

[diogen]

To summarize, Deadline Hollywood Daily (I've seen tabloids with much better language; as an example: "Hey, Barbara & Diane: You're Obsolete.") quotes VideoScan First Alert with just 90K discs of Transformers sold.

In other words, it took just 90K discs to make the BD gang switch its tune from "We Won Again!" to calling Para's announcement a "big ass, fat, stupid lie" while this tiny number cuts BD share of sold discs from 70% to 50% while they were giving away as much as they were selling. Hillarious.

I'll say it again: The BD had to give away as many discs as it sold to defend 50% of the market from an assault of 90K discs of one title.

If this is all it takes to f*ck BDA, just Microsoft has enough money to give away for years to keep this status quo and Sony bleeding.

The HD DVD band must have done something right...

Diogen.

 

[mike123abc]

Another thing to note is that 300 would still be the biggest 1 week seller. With more 300 BD copies selling alone than Transformers.

 

[vurbano]

From this link:

Transformers HD-DVD
Week Ending 10/21/07 = 89,871 Units (First Week sales as reported in VideoScan First Alert) ...Paramount isn't disputing

"In an overreaching effort to make a press claim - the #1 high def title position for any format - for Transformers, they've gone beyond exaggeration. Here's the dumb lie: they've claimed to sell 100K in one day and 190K in one week. Exact point of sale data from 3 retailers that make up 62% of the high-def market show sales of 73K units for the week. Being very generous, they could possibly reach 125K-130K, which would barely set a record for HD-DVD. And they couldn't have flooded rental stores since Blockbuster doesn't stock HD-DVD. It’s an outrage. They think they can say whatever they want and that no one will call them on it. They need to be called on it."


The quote is from a Blu-ray competitor. But the facts are there.

Read the article. Much more there than I quoted here.

The facts are there eh??? And you are sure of it. This time.

From this link:

"Though there was no hot new Blu-ray Disc release, consumers continued to buy more Blu-ray Discs than HD DVDs for the week ended Oct. 21, albeit by a slim 51% to 49% edge. Paramount says Transformers sold 190,000 units its first week in stores, but Home Media Magazine market research and studio estimates puts the actual number of units that sold through to consumers closer to 115,000. "

Well this says that your first source for the 115,000 based on THEIR OWN RESEARCH is TOTALLY unreliable and you should NEVER post anything from them again. You had better hope that the 90K figure is right before the rest of your credibility reaches the sewage treatment plant.

 

[CochiseGuy]

From this link:

Transformers HD-DVD
Week Ending 10/21/07 = 89,871 Units (First Week sales as reported in VideoScan First Alert) ...Paramount isn't disputing

The quote is from a Blu-ray competitor. But the facts are there.

Read the article. Much more there than I quoted here.

Yes, there certainly is much more there. But first, a big Sigh of Sadness, Navy. What is it about owning a PS3 that seems to quickly convert the owner into a fanboi eager to spout any and all FUD? I suspect it is too much time spent on Blu-ray.com, aka Blu Propaganda Central. Seriously - I've spent enough time browsing that site to see it appears to result in brain damage. :yikes

You know, I could take the time to explain how Nielson First Alert works - it is select data from a select group of retailers to project a preview of actual results from complete data. Or. here - Nielson Videoscan says it better themselves, in their "Videoscan Overview PDF" - which you can obtain from this link to a post in the AVSForum Nielson thread:

We call the system that delivers the first wave of data the First Alert system. First Alert is designed to provide our clients with a preview of things to come. It can be equated to “early box office.” It should be noted that chart positions and unit volume can change significantly between First Alert and the Complete data available the following week.

But, why attempt to refute such a post with fact & reason?

Much better to respond fanboi to fanboi, FUD to FUD. :devil:

So, OK - here it is: From that same Niki Finke article:

One Blu-ray studio then provided me with 3rd party substantiation: an internal email from Nielsen's Videoscan giving the point-of-sale data which Paramount isn't disputing:

Transformers HD-DVD
Week Ending 10/21/07 = 89,871 Units (First Week sales as reported in VideoScan First Alert)
---
300 HD-DVD/DVD Combo Pack
Week Ending 8/5/07 = 56,191 Units (First Week sales as reported in VideoScan First Alert)
---
300 Blu-ray
Week Ending 8/5/07 = 107,351 Units (First Week sales as reported in VideoScan First Alert)

What????? Blu-ray only sold 107,351 copies of '300' in the first week?

But wait - Blu-ray claimed they sold 163,000 copies:

300 Sells 163K on Blu-ray

Posted August 8, 2007 by Josh

Warner Bros. Earlier this week, Warner Home Video announced that their high definition releases of '300' sold a combined total of 250,000 units during its first week of sale. Today, a blog post by USA Today writer Mike Snider indicates that the sales ratio was 65-to-35 in favor of Blu-ray, indicating around 163,000 copies of '300' on Blu-ray were sold. While the HD DVD version of the film boasted extras not available on the Blu-ray, consumers overwhelming chose the Blu-ray version with its PCM audio track and scratch-resistant coating.

Blu-ray inflated their sales of '300' by over 52%! Blu-ray - the Big Lie!

 

[navychop]

Keep dreaming, boys. Paramount claimed way more than they really sold. And their credibility has tanked.

Why would they make such exaggerated claims? Because they are desperate? Because they think they needed whatever positive PR they could get, even if it only lasted for a short while? Because they know they're losing?

Anyone seeing such overblown claims shot down so quickly might gather that Paramount knows they're on the losing side, and buy Blu-ray.

Blu-ray outsells HD DVD 2 to 1 YTD. And looking at the releases each will make thru the 4th quarter- it'll stay that way or likely tilt further toward Blu-ray. No amount of creative counting and emotional attacks will change that.

 

[John Kotches]

Did you read the article? Videoscan First Alert is the source for just under 90,000 selling the first week, not any Blu-ray supporter.

For those retailers that report videoscan sales results. Many retailers don't participate in videoscan.

You haven't shown any actual proof of sales numbers. You've shown estimates, interpolations and extrapolations.

And how did that SEC investigation into "incorrect" reporting of Shrek 2 sales turn out?

It doesn't particularly bother me. Maybe I should buy some stock so that it affects me materially.



Cheers,

 

[roachxp]

Another thing to note is that 300 would still be the biggest 1 week seller. With more 300 BD copies selling alone than Transformers.

300 has more copies out on HD DVD then Blu-ray, but 300 is a free packin with all new players since mid September and won't count on the videoscan numbers. Just like SM3 won't count on the new PS3 because it's a packin freebie.

 

[CochiseGuy]

Keep dreaming, boys. Paramount claimed way more than they really sold. And their credibility has tanked.

Why would they make such exaggerated claims? Because they are desperate? Because they think they needed whatever positive PR they could get, even if it only lasted for a short while? Because they know they're losing?

Anyone seeing such overblown claims shot down so quickly might gather that Paramount knows they're on the losing side, and buy Blu-ray.

Blu-ray outsells HD DVD 2 to 1 YTD. And looking at the releases each will make thru the 4th quarter- it'll stay that way or likely tilt further toward Blu-ray. No amount of creative counting and emotional attacks will change that.

Nope, creative accounting or emotional attacks will change anything - but one little factoid will. HMR's estimate of 115k units and First Alert's report of 89,871 units are NOT for Transformers' first week of sales - they are for the first week that Transformers was available for sale.

Confused?

Transformers was released on Tuesday, 10/16, so the first six days of sales from Tuesday through Sunday are included in those reports. The 7th day it was on sale - Monday, 10/22 - is not.

Clearly, Transformers did not sell another 100k copies on Monday - I think it's clear Paramount incorrectly said "sold" when they should have said "shipped". But, now the claim of 89,871 sales for the first week of Transformers is completely bogus.

 

[vurbano]

Nope, creative accounting or emotional attacks will change anything - but one little factoid will. HMR's estimate of 115k units and First Alert's report of 89,871 units are NOT for Transformers' first week of sales - they are for the first week that Transformers was available for sale.

Confused?

Transformers was released on Tuesday, 10/16, so the first six days of sales from Tuesday through Sunday are included in those reports. The 7th day it was on sale - Monday, 10/22 - is not.

Clearly, Transformers did not sell another 100k copies on Monday - I think it's clear Paramount incorrectly said "sold" when they should have said "shipped". But, now the claim of 89,871 sales for the first week of Transformers is completely bogus.

Stop confusing them with facts and logic.

 

[vurbano]

From this link:

Transformers HD-DVD
Week Ending 10/21/07 = 89,871 Units (First Week sales as reported in VideoScan First Alert) ...Paramount isn't disputing.

Yes they are. They are still claiming 190,000. The bigger story is HMM's lousy research which they admit was off by a whopping 25,000 units. (115,000-90,000) How anyone could treat this rag that uses language like this as a reliable source is beyond me:


UPDATE: Two rival Blu-ray studios which prefer to remain nameless tell me they've caught Paramount / DreamWorks in a "big ass, fat, stupid lie" regarding press releases about the numbers of just released Transformer HD-DVD units sold.

Whats next? Yo mama comments?

 

[John Kotches]

Yes they are. They are still claiming 190,000. The bigger story is HMM's lousy research which they admit was off by a whopping 25,000 units. (115,000-90,000) How anyone could treat this rag that uses language like this as a reliable source is beyond me:


UPDATE: Two rival Blu-ray studios which prefer to remain nameless tell me they've caught Paramount / DreamWorks in a "big ass, fat, stupid lie" regarding press releases about the numbers of just released Transformer HD-DVD units sold.

Whats next? Yo mama comments?

In fairness; the phrase in quotes is coming from the Blu-ray studios not the writer.