That solution seems to be both simple and cost-effective enough for me to try it. Thanks again. :up
No HD Locals = Free Premium Chans
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That solution seems to be both simple and cost-effective enough for me to try it. Thanks again. :up
Not much since you are locked in the contract for the next 24 months, they knew you were bluffing, why you did not get anything special
As for the OTAs, first look at your line of sight condition, if there are hills and large trees between your house and the towers, that could be why you can not get good OTA signals. If not then something is wrong with your existing old antenna.
I wouldn't even bother to craw into the attic yet, if you don't see line of sight issue, simply use a cheap indoor UHF antenna and first try to see if you can get anything just indoor, move it higher and close to the window facing the towers, if not move it outdoor put it on the roof with clear shot to the towers. Since they are only 30 miles away you should lock on easily unless your local stations are on low power.
I would first verify and eliminate all those factors before doing a final installation.
Not much since you are locked in the contract for the next 24 months, they knew you were bluffing, why you did not get anything special
As for the OTAs, first look at your line of sight condition, if there are hills and large trees between your house and the towers, that could be why you can not get good OTA signals. If not then something is wrong with your existing old antenna.
I wouldn't even bother to craw into the attic yet, if you don't see line of sight issue, simply use a cheap indoor UHF antenna and first try to see if you can get anything just indoor, move it higher and close to the window facing the towers, if not move it outdoor put it on the roof with clear shot to the towers. Since they are only 30 miles away you should lock on easily unless your local stations are on low power.
I would first verify and eliminate all those factors before doing a final installation.
I live in Illinois so the biggest hill in the area is shorter than I am, haha, and trees are fairly sparse since 90% of the land seems to be corn and/or soybean fields. Also I bought an "HDTV ready" set-top antenna at Walmart just a few days ago and promptly returned it because it didn't pick up much more than snow, no matter where I put the darn thing. So I'm pretty sure I'm ready for the next step up.
Come on man! I had him climbing up into the attic in the summer with rabid squirrels!
Actually, you'd be surprised at how hilly some places in Illinois can be. Especially parts of western and southern Illinois. Hilly enough to affect what stations you can and can't pull in. Of course, the orientation of your antenna, home, and towers makes a big difference too.
As a couple of examples, the bluffs along the Illinois river actually block a significant amount of the signal from Quincy's CBS channel, KHQA. Similar bluffs south of Peoria block a big chunk of the Peoria stations too. You can see it from the signal maps on TVFool.com.
I've got a friend that lives in a nearby 'hollow'. His home is significantly below the 'lay of the land'. He had to put up a sizable tower for his OTA antenna to be able to pick up anything. He'd argue that Illinois certainly does have hills that matter to OTA HD.
When you're looking at antennas, do consider UHF vs VHF. The DB's are for UHF only. So check TVFool and make sure that the stations you're trying to pick up are in the UHF band (14-69), and not VHF (2-13). If you're looking at the same stations I do (WRSP,WICS,WAND, & WCIA), they're all UHF.
Some stations are moving after the Feb conversion. WCFN is one of them. They're moving from UHF 53 to VHF 13. This one is of interest to me because WCFN and WCIA re-broadcast eachother's programming on the HD subchannel. So at least in the Springfield area, the WCIA CBS-HD feed on WCFN's subchannel should get a lot stronger when they move to the VHF band. So I've been told by a little bird, anyway. KHQA in Quincy is another one moving from UHF to VHF.
As a couple of examples, the bluffs along the Illinois river actually block a significant amount of the signal from Quincy's CBS channel, KHQA. Similar bluffs south of Peoria block a big chunk of the Peoria stations too. You can see it from the signal maps on TVFool.com.
I've got a friend that lives in a nearby 'hollow'. His home is significantly below the 'lay of the land'. He had to put up a sizable tower for his OTA antenna to be able to pick up anything. He'd argue that Illinois certainly does have hills that matter to OTA HD.
When you're looking at antennas, do consider UHF vs VHF. The DB's are for UHF only. So check TVFool and make sure that the stations you're trying to pick up are in the UHF band (14-69), and not VHF (2-13). If you're looking at the same stations I do (WRSP,WICS,WAND, & WCIA), they're all UHF.
Some stations are moving after the Feb conversion. WCFN is one of them. They're moving from UHF 53 to VHF 13. This one is of interest to me because WCFN and WCIA re-broadcast eachother's programming on the HD subchannel. So at least in the Springfield area, the WCIA CBS-HD feed on WCFN's subchannel should get a lot stronger when they move to the VHF band. So I've been told by a little bird, anyway. KHQA in Quincy is another one moving from UHF to VHF.
If the only digital signal you're picking up is the PBS station from Urbana, then you've probably got a VHF-only antenna. All the rest of our locals are UHF. I bought a simple UHF antenna from Antennas Direct, mounted it to top eave on my house and I can pick up everything except PBS with 90-100% signal strength. I didn't really care about PBS in HD, so I just got the UHF antenna.
It is not just a hill you can see, must consider the entire area from your house to the towers. You already have a few folks in your area getting solid signals with small UHF antennas. Make sure to eliminate all other factors before buying that 8' outdoor beast
Here is some info on indoor antennas and antennas in general.
EV's Best Top Rated HDTV Indoor Antenna Review Test Round-Up Guide - AVS Forum
There are quite a few indoor antennas that can do pretty well at medium distance.
I have a Channel Master 4220 Double BowTie on the roof with a Channel Master Titan 7777 amplifier and do well 45 miles from the towers, bad immediate tree problems but flat land.
I had an xg91 up there with the CM7777, but it didnt do so well when the leaves of spring came.
I also had a DB2 up there and it did practically as well as teh CM 4220 with the same amp....and also a Winegard 4400.
If I was to recommend a 4 bay antenna it would be the Channel Master 4221 or the AntennaCraft Gray-Hoverman.
I generally much prefer the 2 or 4 bay Bowtie antennas (over 8 bay) for their broader beamwidth and easier mounting and placement while still giving excellent gain over the UHF spectrum.
If you would like to just try something cheap out (although the CM4220 CM4221 and DB2 are pretty cheap too), you can go to Radio Shack and get the bottom of the indoor antenna rack, Classic Single BowTie plus youlll have to pick up a 300 ohm to 75 ohm Matching Transformer Balun. That little antenna is a cheap little gem of a UHF antenna.
EV's Best Top Rated HDTV Indoor Antenna Review Test Round-Up Guide - AVS Forum
There are quite a few indoor antennas that can do pretty well at medium distance.
I have a Channel Master 4220 Double BowTie on the roof with a Channel Master Titan 7777 amplifier and do well 45 miles from the towers, bad immediate tree problems but flat land.
I had an xg91 up there with the CM7777, but it didnt do so well when the leaves of spring came.
I also had a DB2 up there and it did practically as well as teh CM 4220 with the same amp....and also a Winegard 4400.
If I was to recommend a 4 bay antenna it would be the Channel Master 4221 or the AntennaCraft Gray-Hoverman.
I generally much prefer the 2 or 4 bay Bowtie antennas (over 8 bay) for their broader beamwidth and easier mounting and placement while still giving excellent gain over the UHF spectrum.
If you would like to just try something cheap out (although the CM4220 CM4221 and DB2 are pretty cheap too), you can go to Radio Shack and get the bottom of the indoor antenna rack, Classic Single BowTie plus youlll have to pick up a 300 ohm to 75 ohm Matching Transformer Balun. That little antenna is a cheap little gem of a UHF antenna.
its all about the homemade coat hanger 2x4 antenna. its ugly, looks like a medival torture device(or one of madonnas play toys) but it works. oh yeah, and cost less the a bigmac meal to make. click the link to watch how to make it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWQhlmJTMzw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EWQhlmJTMzw
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A lot of information on this antenna on the SG.US site in this thread: http://www.satelliteguys.us/hd-over-air-ota/119733-very-good-2-00-homemade-antenna-hdtv.html
I made one form my OTA which broadcasts from 30+ miles away in moderately hilly country. It is ugly, but works very well.
I live in the Champaign-Urbana area and I pick up all the networks (except for FOX) with an old "rabbit ear" antenna hanging off the back of the receiver. Even sticking a paper clip into the antenna input would get you WCIA and probably others. I've tried a variety of amplified "special" antennas, but I keep finding that the rabbit ears work the best.
Good luck!
Good luck!
Just a small update to the HD locals issue: I haven't gotten a chance to get the fancy UHF antenna from Radio Shack yet, mostly because we don't have one (except in Mattoon, everyone in this viewing area should know where that is). However I did go to Walmart and pick up a Philips VHF/UHF combo (basically rabbit ears and a flat-panel UHF antenna, and up to 50dB amp), it was only $30, and 50' of quad-shield RG6 coax (supposed to be $20, ended up getting it for free, but that's another story, haha).
So basically I try this thing sitting on my entertainment center, I get some fuzzy SD and one PBS HD. Nothing I haven't seen before. Then I take it outside (totally not rated for this kind of use, btw) and sit it on a table on my front porch. This picks up a LOT of digital (CBS, ABC, FOX, CW, 2PBSs) but 1) got a lot of macroblocking and 2) this little thing would fry in the rain. So finally I crawl up into my attic and sit it on a pile of boxes, basically getting it as high as possible. I scan again, and my result is CBS-HD, myCFN-DT (seems to be standard def), 2ABC-HDs, FOX-HD, CW-HD, and PBS-HD (don't know where the other one went, haha). Signal stregnths actually range from the low 60s to the high 70s, with the highest reading so far being 82 for the CW channel.
I am fairly happy with the result, especially considering the equipment I'm using. The only thing that bothers me is the lack of NBC-HD. Where is WAND-DT? I thought it was UHF from a roughly northern direction, same as everything else, but maybe not? The SD version comes through (though somewhat snowy), but there is NO signal for the HD. Not a 20%, or 10%, it reads as 0% as if it weren't there. What gives?
Anyway, thanks for everyone's suggestions from earlier in the thread, and if anyone from this viewing area has some more info on WAND, I'm anxiously awaiting your help. :up
So basically I try this thing sitting on my entertainment center, I get some fuzzy SD and one PBS HD. Nothing I haven't seen before. Then I take it outside (totally not rated for this kind of use, btw) and sit it on a table on my front porch. This picks up a LOT of digital (CBS, ABC, FOX, CW, 2PBSs) but 1) got a lot of macroblocking and 2) this little thing would fry in the rain. So finally I crawl up into my attic and sit it on a pile of boxes, basically getting it as high as possible. I scan again, and my result is CBS-HD, myCFN-DT (seems to be standard def), 2ABC-HDs, FOX-HD, CW-HD, and PBS-HD (don't know where the other one went, haha). Signal stregnths actually range from the low 60s to the high 70s, with the highest reading so far being 82 for the CW channel.
I am fairly happy with the result, especially considering the equipment I'm using. The only thing that bothers me is the lack of NBC-HD. Where is WAND-DT? I thought it was UHF from a roughly northern direction, same as everything else, but maybe not? The SD version comes through (though somewhat snowy), but there is NO signal for the HD. Not a 20%, or 10%, it reads as 0% as if it weren't there. What gives?
Anyway, thanks for everyone's suggestions from earlier in the thread, and if anyone from this viewing area has some more info on WAND, I'm anxiously awaiting your help. :up
Glad to hear you're having some luck pulling in the stations. Living in Mattoon, I'd think you'd be able to get all of the majors, FOX & ABC out of Springfield, NBC out of Decatur, and CBS from Campaign. The only problem you'd run into is the fact that their signal directions are all different for you.
WAND broadcasts from a tower on the northeast side of Decatur.
See map:
TV Fool - Online Coverage Maps
You ought to be able to get it quite well in Mattoon, unless you live on the south/southeast side in that signal hole.
I live in Jacksonville, at the far west side of that map. As you can see, I'm in the purple, which is fringe. But I'm able to consistently get mid 80's for WAND (on my 722's scale) during the day, which climbs to mid 90's once the sun sets. If it's night and overcast, it sometimes hits 100.
Another note... The signal meter on the 722 isn't all that useful at finding 'fringe' channels. The lowest signal I've ever seen on a DTV channel that was actually being displayed (rather than the 'No signal' display) was 58. It was constantly pixelated and breaking up. By about 64 or 66, the picture is almost viewable. and anything at 68 or above is (usually) perfect. So the values you will see are either 0, or 58-100, with 58-66 being 'iffy', and 68+ being perfect.
It's not able to tell you that a station is 'there' but not viewable. In other words, if you need a 68 to receive WAND, and it's receiving it at '50', you'll not know it because it'll just say 0. I don't even know why they bothered with a range of 0-100 when it's only useful from 58+.
WAND broadcasts from a tower on the northeast side of Decatur.
See map:
TV Fool - Online Coverage Maps
You ought to be able to get it quite well in Mattoon, unless you live on the south/southeast side in that signal hole.
I live in Jacksonville, at the far west side of that map. As you can see, I'm in the purple, which is fringe. But I'm able to consistently get mid 80's for WAND (on my 722's scale) during the day, which climbs to mid 90's once the sun sets. If it's night and overcast, it sometimes hits 100.
Another note... The signal meter on the 722 isn't all that useful at finding 'fringe' channels. The lowest signal I've ever seen on a DTV channel that was actually being displayed (rather than the 'No signal' display) was 58. It was constantly pixelated and breaking up. By about 64 or 66, the picture is almost viewable. and anything at 68 or above is (usually) perfect. So the values you will see are either 0, or 58-100, with 58-66 being 'iffy', and 68+ being perfect.
It's not able to tell you that a station is 'there' but not viewable. In other words, if you need a 68 to receive WAND, and it's receiving it at '50', you'll not know it because it'll just say 0. I don't even know why they bothered with a range of 0-100 when it's only useful from 58+.
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Start trying small adjustments in antenna direction and in attic placement. There is a perfect direction and a sweet spot to set the antenna in.
I actually live in Beecher City (small town about 12 miles from Effingham) and we are actually much closer to Decatur (about 42 miles as the crow flies) than Champaign (about 70 miles). Yet WCIA-DT comes in strong and clear, and no WAND-DT at all. On the TVFool maps you pointed out, I am somewhat on the fringe of both stations, yet if anything, WAND should be the stronger of the two.
So I'm still confused.
So I'm still confused.
Yes, it sounds like you should be able to get both WAND & WCIA by just pointing the antenna north.I actually live in Beecher City (small town about 12 miles from Effingham) and we are actually much closer to Decatur (about 42 miles as the crow flies) than Champaign (about 70 miles). Yet WCIA-DT comes in strong and clear, and no WAND-DT at all. On the TVFool maps you pointed out, I am somewhat on the fringe of both stations, yet if anything, WAND should be the stronger of the two.
So I'm still confused.
Have you run a signal analysis on TVFool yet?
Fill this (TV Fool - TV Signal Locater ) out and take a look at the results. That will tell you from which directions you should expect to receive the channels, as well as the actual channel numbers that you will see. It's been invaluable to me in setting up my antenna.
As the other poster said, there is an element of chance and black magic to setting up an antenna. Especially when you're setting it up inside. The signal can go from 'nothing' to 'everything' just by moving it 2 inches. Literally. If I move my antenna as little as 2 or 3 inches from where it is, I start to lose channels.
There will probably be a sweet spot or two somewhere in your attic, you've just got to find it. You may just need to spend a little more time tinkering with the setup.
Good luck!
I have run that before, that's how I knew all the chans I'm interested in are UHF from the north. But for what it's worth, here's the info for WAND-DT from my address (according to that TVFool signal locater):
WAND-DT
Channel : Real - 18 Virtual - 17.1
Network : NBC
Signal: Xmit - 49.35 Rx - -91.4 Path - LOS Distance - 53.0 mi
Azimuth: True - 357 degrees Magn - 359 degrees
Height: -100dBm - 6.0 LOS - 17.5
Can anyone decifer this into some info I can actually use?
