"someone else"....Um I don't think so..That somemone else would have to be paid for his work.. Dish won't pay. So the money has to come from somewhere. If it's a DNSC job, fine. they are hourly. If it's a contratcor that returns he is not going to get paid for a new install. He will get creamed financially on that job. No, the original tech must be made to cover his own junk.
No Ground Wire On New Dish Installation
- Thread starter frodozz
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Ok um, "dude", is it?...How about I give you a chance ot edit your post to take out the following statement: "Installers do not like to put in correct grounds
I get real cranky when I see generalized statements that have no basis in fact and are just the rantiungs of a pissed off person who knows no better. Now if you don't want to get flamed, I suggest you rephrase that real quick..I 'll give you a clue. Try inserting the word "some" before the word "installers"...have a wonderful day.
In order for an acceptabole NEC ground the ater system must be ALL copper. So a water pipe ground is not possibbole in your home. In fact I am shocked that your water service is Poly butylin pipe... With the cold temps there, that line must be pretty deep..Anyway, the main elctrical GND is the best one. Typically we ground to the #6 GND wire that goes from the meter to the GND rod nearby. We do not have to dig around looking fo rthe house GND rod..Actaully according to local code, itis a violation to bury the GND rod..That's local code..
OK...If lightining hits the dish the last thing I would worry about is the charge going across the cable. Trust me the cabole will not be able to contain that much current. The cable will melt and the enormous power of the lightining would most certainly damage the home in other ways.
I GND everry system. That's by the book and I believe in it. But what I know about lighting and it's potential as one of the most powerful forces of nature makes me chuckle when a customer asks about the Dish and lightining.
Now that raises an interesting question. Is attaching a groundwire to a light fixture a suitable ground as per NEC?
Yes it is..as long as the fixture is properly bonded and has a ground screw it is an acceptable NEC ground. We got that straight from the DNSC by the book QC head honcho.
I am friends with two master electricians and one journeyman .I asked..Trust me I pick their brains all the time.
Like the generalizations that you seem to make quite a bit about customers?
I notice that *some* installers really get nasty when they post about customers and it makes me cranky. If you don't like them then why do the job?
No offense intended and I am certainly not trying to start a war, but I think you have forgotten the old story of the pot and the kettle....
dishcomm
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Indian trail,NC
Posts: 1,812
Quote:
Could not have written beter myself..I'd like to add that customers seem to be getting more and more high maintenence as the moths pass by..Especially ones that run out an dbuy HD tv's and Home theatre sytems. The kicker is these people sepnd withut doing any reaserch on the product. Then when they get it home thye can't handle it. They call Dish and bitch like little school girls and demand a tech be sent to help ..Of course free of charge..The CSR's issue bogus trouble calls because the customer can't figure out how to change the tv input so their little cupcake can play gamecube..So they call dish and whine like little school girls....Invariably if a customer mebtions cancelling the CSR's set Trouble calls(non pay) and we have to go kiss these people's asses.....This kind of crap is going to backfire on both satco's because good consciencious techs are going to leave the business and what will be left are $12/hr schlubs who don't give sh*t abiout the customers or the customers home . Nor will they give two hoots about the qulality of their work..Mark my words, the satcos wil pay dearly for their shortsightedness....attention customers..Caveat emptor .....and you get what you pay for....There is no such thing as free....
and dishcomm
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Indian trail,NC
Posts: 1,812
Quote:
OK..I run into this all the time. The customer schedules fro a day when they know they have to make special arrangements to be there. Examples are missing work, having to take the kids to school or pick them up, go shopping, get their hair done, etc.
Keep in mind while thre is no excuse for a no call no show, ther are always factors in that effect the techs work day. One which is most prominent is getting stuck on a difficult or time consuming job. Too many times customers get angry with us over stuff that is out of our control. The job you scheduled is most likely the only on ethat tech has that day.
Now , just because Dish tells customers the earliest day doesn't mean the cust MUST choose that day. A customer is always free to choose a day farther out that is most convenient for them. Another example is when the tech arrives within the time frame and the customer says they have an hour before they have to leave. We can't work like that. When appointments ar eset there is a time frame in which the tech is allowed to arrive and be on time. 8-12 or 12-5. Contrary to popular thgought, that means we must arrive between those hrs. Not have the job complete between those hrs.
I try to work my jobs geographically first. Then I prioritize by time frame. I do this because on some days I get all AM or all PM jobs. Since I cannot be in three places at once I must ask customers to be flexible. 95% are flexible.
You got screwed by a no call no show. That's wrong. But you have to be aware that giving just a half day isn't the best idea. Suppose you shceduled for an 8-12 arrical. The tech gets there at say 11am. You have to be realistic and give the tech ample time complete the job. Suppose there is a mega issue that requires a couple hrs of work time. Would you still then get pissed because it took longer than you anticpated and as a result missed a half days work?..It's the same thing. Missed work is missed work, is it not?.
and dishcomm
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Indian trail,NC
Posts: 1,812
Quote:
"Have your husband be reasonable and have HIM tell the installer where a good place is to put the dish. "....
Just a minute.....The customer is NOT the professional...I have run into this type of customer before. The ones that jump to conclusions that we are all screw up's....Here's a bit of advice..DO NOT TELL the installer what to do..That's a sure fire way of getting your install delayed by a bunch of time.
Allow the man to do his job..Most of us will try to find a good sopt for the disgh with aesthetcics in mind. I do this...Upon arrival I immediately go to the rear of the house and look for line of sight there...If it works , that's where it goes...The tech should not do any work before the discussing with the customer how the job will go. Once that uis in hand it is time to start work...Leave the installer to his job..Your input is no longer needed.
Our job is to install the system in a quality manner, communicate with the customer if they have concerns. And perform good customer service..Our job does not include moving your dirty clothes out of the way, jerry jacking heavy furniture all over the room, lifitng 200lb tv's into fire place niches, stacking your CD's from the 300 disc tower you have along side you entertainment center or dodging you antique family heirloom hummels.
Bottom line is this. If you want good customer service, be a good customer.
It cuts both ways.
Yes and I see you left out the post where I stated that 99% of all customers are good people and appreciate the job I do for them. But I guess that just didn't fit your agenda.Like the generalizations that you seem to make quite a bit about customers?
I notice that *some* installers really get nasty when they post about customers and it makes me cranky. If you don't like them then why do the job?
No offense intended and I am certainly not trying to start a war, but I think you have forgotten the old story of the pot and the kettle....
dishcomm
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Indian trail,NC
Posts: 1,812
Quote:
Could not have written beter myself..I'd like to add that customers seem to be getting more and more high maintenence as the moths pass by..Especially ones that run out an dbuy HD tv's and Home theatre sytems. The kicker is these people sepnd withut doing any reaserch on the product. Then when they get it home thye can't handle it. They call Dish and bitch like little school girls and demand a tech be sent to help ..Of course free of charge..The CSR's issue bogus trouble calls because the customer can't figure out how to change the tv input so their little cupcake can play gamecube..So they call dish and whine like little school girls....Invariably if a customer mebtions cancelling the CSR's set Trouble calls(non pay) and we have to go kiss these people's asses.....This kind of crap is going to backfire on both satco's because good consciencious techs are going to leave the business and what will be left are $12/hr schlubs who don't give sh*t abiout the customers or the customers home . Nor will they give two hoots about the qulality of their work..Mark my words, the satcos wil pay dearly for their shortsightedness....attention customers..Caveat emptor .....and you get what you pay for....There is no such thing as free....
and dishcomm
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Indian trail,NC
Posts: 1,812
Quote:
OK..I run into this all the time. The customer schedules fro a day when they know they have to make special arrangements to be there. Examples are missing work, having to take the kids to school or pick them up, go shopping, get their hair done, etc.
Keep in mind while thre is no excuse for a no call no show, ther are always factors in that effect the techs work day. One which is most prominent is getting stuck on a difficult or time consuming job. Too many times customers get angry with us over stuff that is out of our control. The job you scheduled is most likely the only on ethat tech has that day.
Now , just because Dish tells customers the earliest day doesn't mean the cust MUST choose that day. A customer is always free to choose a day farther out that is most convenient for them. Another example is when the tech arrives within the time frame and the customer says they have an hour before they have to leave. We can't work like that. When appointments ar eset there is a time frame in which the tech is allowed to arrive and be on time. 8-12 or 12-5. Contrary to popular thgought, that means we must arrive between those hrs. Not have the job complete between those hrs.
I try to work my jobs geographically first. Then I prioritize by time frame. I do this because on some days I get all AM or all PM jobs. Since I cannot be in three places at once I must ask customers to be flexible. 95% are flexible.
You got screwed by a no call no show. That's wrong. But you have to be aware that giving just a half day isn't the best idea. Suppose you shceduled for an 8-12 arrical. The tech gets there at say 11am. You have to be realistic and give the tech ample time complete the job. Suppose there is a mega issue that requires a couple hrs of work time. Would you still then get pissed because it took longer than you anticpated and as a result missed a half days work?..It's the same thing. Missed work is missed work, is it not?.
and dishcomm
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Indian trail,NC
Posts: 1,812
Quote:
"Have your husband be reasonable and have HIM tell the installer where a good place is to put the dish. "....
Just a minute.....The customer is NOT the professional...I have run into this type of customer before. The ones that jump to conclusions that we are all screw up's....Here's a bit of advice..DO NOT TELL the installer what to do..That's a sure fire way of getting your install delayed by a bunch of time.
Allow the man to do his job..Most of us will try to find a good sopt for the disgh with aesthetcics in mind. I do this...Upon arrival I immediately go to the rear of the house and look for line of sight there...If it works , that's where it goes...The tech should not do any work before the discussing with the customer how the job will go. Once that uis in hand it is time to start work...Leave the installer to his job..Your input is no longer needed.
Our job is to install the system in a quality manner, communicate with the customer if they have concerns. And perform good customer service..Our job does not include moving your dirty clothes out of the way, jerry jacking heavy furniture all over the room, lifitng 200lb tv's into fire place niches, stacking your CD's from the 300 disc tower you have along side you entertainment center or dodging you antique family heirloom hummels.
Bottom line is this. If you want good customer service, be a good customer.
It cuts both ways.
I am certainly not the only tech that posts on here that has gripes and horror stories to tell about customer issues. I think the high horse you were riding on just ran off. See ya..
And you chose not to read *some* techs.
I can't understand how when confronted with your own words you just ignore the facts and focus on what you said but I didn't post, but I guess facing the issue at hand doesn't fit your agenda.
No high horse here, just the facts ma'am.
See ya...
I can't understand how when confronted with your own words you just ignore the facts and focus on what you said but I didn't post, but I guess facing the issue at hand doesn't fit your agenda.
No high horse here, just the facts ma'am.
See ya...
BTW I did not generalize I merely stated facts based on my experience with individual customers. I never mentioned "all" not did I lump customers into one category as the OP did against techicians. Once again, time to retrieve your high horse.Like the generalizations that you seem to make quite a bit about customers?
I notice that *some* installers really get nasty when they post about customers and it makes me cranky. If you don't like them then why do the job?
No offense intended and I am certainly not trying to start a war, but I think you have forgotten the old story of the pot and the kettle....
dishcomm
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Indian trail,NC
Posts: 1,812
Quote:
Could not have written beter myself..I'd like to add that customers seem to be getting more and more high maintenence as the moths pass by..Especially ones that run out an dbuy HD tv's and Home theatre sytems. The kicker is these people sepnd withut doing any reaserch on the product. Then when they get it home thye can't handle it. They call Dish and bitch like little school girls and demand a tech be sent to help ..Of course free of charge..The CSR's issue bogus trouble calls because the customer can't figure out how to change the tv input so their little cupcake can play gamecube..So they call dish and whine like little school girls....Invariably if a customer mebtions cancelling the CSR's set Trouble calls(non pay) and we have to go kiss these people's asses.....This kind of crap is going to backfire on both satco's because good consciencious techs are going to leave the business and what will be left are $12/hr schlubs who don't give sh*t abiout the customers or the customers home . Nor will they give two hoots about the qulality of their work..Mark my words, the satcos wil pay dearly for their shortsightedness....attention customers..Caveat emptor .....and you get what you pay for....There is no such thing as free....
and dishcomm
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Indian trail,NC
Posts: 1,812
Quote:
OK..I run into this all the time. The customer schedules fro a day when they know they have to make special arrangements to be there. Examples are missing work, having to take the kids to school or pick them up, go shopping, get their hair done, etc.
Keep in mind while thre is no excuse for a no call no show, ther are always factors in that effect the techs work day. One which is most prominent is getting stuck on a difficult or time consuming job. Too many times customers get angry with us over stuff that is out of our control. The job you scheduled is most likely the only on ethat tech has that day.
Now , just because Dish tells customers the earliest day doesn't mean the cust MUST choose that day. A customer is always free to choose a day farther out that is most convenient for them. Another example is when the tech arrives within the time frame and the customer says they have an hour before they have to leave. We can't work like that. When appointments ar eset there is a time frame in which the tech is allowed to arrive and be on time. 8-12 or 12-5. Contrary to popular thgought, that means we must arrive between those hrs. Not have the job complete between those hrs.
I try to work my jobs geographically first. Then I prioritize by time frame. I do this because on some days I get all AM or all PM jobs. Since I cannot be in three places at once I must ask customers to be flexible. 95% are flexible.
You got screwed by a no call no show. That's wrong. But you have to be aware that giving just a half day isn't the best idea. Suppose you shceduled for an 8-12 arrical. The tech gets there at say 11am. You have to be realistic and give the tech ample time complete the job. Suppose there is a mega issue that requires a couple hrs of work time. Would you still then get pissed because it took longer than you anticpated and as a result missed a half days work?..It's the same thing. Missed work is missed work, is it not?.
and dishcomm
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Indian trail,NC
Posts: 1,812
Quote:
"Have your husband be reasonable and have HIM tell the installer where a good place is to put the dish. "....
Just a minute.....The customer is NOT the professional...I have run into this type of customer before. The ones that jump to conclusions that we are all screw up's....Here's a bit of advice..DO NOT TELL the installer what to do..That's a sure fire way of getting your install delayed by a bunch of time.
Allow the man to do his job..Most of us will try to find a good sopt for the disgh with aesthetcics in mind. I do this...Upon arrival I immediately go to the rear of the house and look for line of sight there...If it works , that's where it goes...The tech should not do any work before the discussing with the customer how the job will go. Once that uis in hand it is time to start work...Leave the installer to his job..Your input is no longer needed.
Our job is to install the system in a quality manner, communicate with the customer if they have concerns. And perform good customer service..Our job does not include moving your dirty clothes out of the way, jerry jacking heavy furniture all over the room, lifitng 200lb tv's into fire place niches, stacking your CD's from the 300 disc tower you have along side you entertainment center or dodging you antique family heirloom hummels.
Bottom line is this. If you want good customer service, be a good customer.
It cuts both ways.
If you are not trying to start a war ,then don't.Like the generalizations that you seem to make quite a bit about customers?
I notice that *some* installers really get nasty when they post about customers and it makes me cranky. If you don't like them then why do the job?
No offense intended and I am certainly not trying to start a war, but I think you have forgotten the old story of the pot and the kettle....
dishcomm
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Indian trail,NC
Posts: 1,812
Quote:
Could not have written beter myself..I'd like to add that customers seem to be getting more and more high maintenence as the moths pass by..Especially ones that run out an dbuy HD tv's and Home theatre sytems. The kicker is these people sepnd withut doing any reaserch on the product. Then when they get it home thye can't handle it. They call Dish and bitch like little school girls and demand a tech be sent to help ..Of course free of charge..The CSR's issue bogus trouble calls because the customer can't figure out how to change the tv input so their little cupcake can play gamecube..So they call dish and whine like little school girls....Invariably if a customer mebtions cancelling the CSR's set Trouble calls(non pay) and we have to go kiss these people's asses.....This kind of crap is going to backfire on both satco's because good consciencious techs are going to leave the business and what will be left are $12/hr schlubs who don't give sh*t abiout the customers or the customers home . Nor will they give two hoots about the qulality of their work..Mark my words, the satcos wil pay dearly for their shortsightedness....attention customers..Caveat emptor .....and you get what you pay for....There is no such thing as free....
and dishcomm
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Indian trail,NC
Posts: 1,812
Quote:
OK..I run into this all the time. The customer schedules fro a day when they know they have to make special arrangements to be there. Examples are missing work, having to take the kids to school or pick them up, go shopping, get their hair done, etc.
Keep in mind while thre is no excuse for a no call no show, ther are always factors in that effect the techs work day. One which is most prominent is getting stuck on a difficult or time consuming job. Too many times customers get angry with us over stuff that is out of our control. The job you scheduled is most likely the only on ethat tech has that day.
Now , just because Dish tells customers the earliest day doesn't mean the cust MUST choose that day. A customer is always free to choose a day farther out that is most convenient for them. Another example is when the tech arrives within the time frame and the customer says they have an hour before they have to leave. We can't work like that. When appointments ar eset there is a time frame in which the tech is allowed to arrive and be on time. 8-12 or 12-5. Contrary to popular thgought, that means we must arrive between those hrs. Not have the job complete between those hrs.
I try to work my jobs geographically first. Then I prioritize by time frame. I do this because on some days I get all AM or all PM jobs. Since I cannot be in three places at once I must ask customers to be flexible. 95% are flexible.
You got screwed by a no call no show. That's wrong. But you have to be aware that giving just a half day isn't the best idea. Suppose you shceduled for an 8-12 arrical. The tech gets there at say 11am. You have to be realistic and give the tech ample time complete the job. Suppose there is a mega issue that requires a couple hrs of work time. Would you still then get pissed because it took longer than you anticpated and as a result missed a half days work?..It's the same thing. Missed work is missed work, is it not?.
and dishcomm
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Indian trail,NC
Posts: 1,812
Quote:
"Have your husband be reasonable and have HIM tell the installer where a good place is to put the dish. "....
Just a minute.....The customer is NOT the professional...I have run into this type of customer before. The ones that jump to conclusions that we are all screw up's....Here's a bit of advice..DO NOT TELL the installer what to do..That's a sure fire way of getting your install delayed by a bunch of time.
Allow the man to do his job..Most of us will try to find a good sopt for the disgh with aesthetcics in mind. I do this...Upon arrival I immediately go to the rear of the house and look for line of sight there...If it works , that's where it goes...The tech should not do any work before the discussing with the customer how the job will go. Once that uis in hand it is time to start work...Leave the installer to his job..Your input is no longer needed.
Our job is to install the system in a quality manner, communicate with the customer if they have concerns. And perform good customer service..Our job does not include moving your dirty clothes out of the way, jerry jacking heavy furniture all over the room, lifitng 200lb tv's into fire place niches, stacking your CD's from the 300 disc tower you have along side you entertainment center or dodging you antique family heirloom hummels.
Bottom line is this. If you want good customer service, be a good customer.
It cuts both ways.
I thought you dismissed me with your "See Ya."
What happened? How many more times are you going to post back?
Seems like I have hit a nerve here...
I have you dead to rights, my advice - just let it go.
At this point, I am done with the conversation, best wishes.
Though you weren't trying to start a war.. BTW..What facts?..Are you implying that I have no business posting personal experinces that I have had with a few customers?.. What the hell is this happy land?
Look pal, I am ending this right now. You're dead worng. If you want to keep harping on this ,you are free to have the last word. Unless of course you want the war you stated you weren't trying to start..Piece of advice, don't go there. Just let it go. We're done.. BTW you're wrong.
If lighting were to actually hit your dish, your main concern should probably be how fast of a response time the local fire department has to get there. Grounding or not grounding is a question that will go on for until the end of time. Grounding is not going to affect your reception, or how your system works, no matter what. Grounding is part of a NEC Code. And in my personal opinion, the only reason it is there is for liability reasons. Lawsuits ruin the world. I have been a tech since the days of the BUD C-Band Dishes. I have seen lightning actually strike a dish twice. And it wasn't pretty when it all finished. Ground or no ground wouldn't have helped. The systems that I have seen damaged were all grounded systems. In most cases the lighting damage that occurs came in one of two ways.. The power outlet, because the power line was hit out at the pole or the Phone line for the same reason. Most can avoid damage by using a decent surge protector for both power and phone, although they are deffinitely not infallable either. But they can help for minor power surges. Grounding is not going to change any of that. This arguement will never be solved. In my case from what I see, it's the younger or newer techs that tend to make the argument for grounding because they have been indoctrinated by the company they work for that an ungrounded system doesn't work right. Most of the older techs like me and many others that I know, all know that the ground really doesn't do anything except make people feel safer.
IF your dish gets a direct hit, it will blow out the roof no matter if the cables run through it or not. Grounding a dish doesn't protect from lightning strikes it reduces the chance of the dish getting hit by lightning. By correctly grounding the system, ie utility ground within 15 ft of the service meter, this greatly reduces the potential resistance difference between the earth and the static buildup on the dish. the ground wire dissipates the build up back to the earth. By no means does it increase the potential to be hit. Also on this note if the ground for the house is incorrect, not buried deep enough to meet the earth's potential, anywhere between 4 and 12 ft, depending on soil content, water table, etc. Most requirements are 6-8 foot ground rods, than the dish's ground could pose the difference attracting potential energy
Hmm, last time I checked, the radio tower used by the local FM station didn't blow up after being hit with lighting.
Leave it be said, installers are required to ground any antenna system per NEC requirements. To not do so removes the measure of human safety that the NEC regulations attempt to provide.
Leave it be said, installers are required to ground any antenna system per NEC requirements. To not do so removes the measure of human safety that the NEC regulations attempt to provide.
Most houses around here you'll see a #6 or #4 bare twisted copper wire going from inside the house/basement to the outside to the ground rod. The top of the rod should be a few inches above ground, but they can get covered up over time or if they use mulch for landscaping. If you look at your circuit breaker box, you should see the copper wire coming out of it, if it's not drywalled in. In fact, by code here, there should be another bare copper wire going from the same box to the water pipes, if they are copper. That's why I was surprised to see a well built new house with no ground wires anywhere, and pass inspection.
