Nexstar dispute looming...

[Peter Parker]

I am proposing that we chnge the title of this thread if it is to continue. The dispute is no longer "looming". I am not trying to be any more of a wise guy (or wise anything else) than I normally am but we should be careful about thread titles that discuss someThing as being in the indefinite future or happening "today" if the thread are likely to be around for some time to come.

 

[pattykay]

I am proposing that we chnge the title of this thread if it is to continue. The dispute is no longer "looming". I am not trying to be any more of a wise guy (or wise anything else) than I normally am but we should be careful about thread titles that discuss someThing as being in the indefinite future or happening "today" if the thread are likely to be around for some time to come.

As the thread starter, I whole-heartedly agree! I had been been hoping that this thread would simply get merged with the other thread(s) about the Nexstar dispute. However, since this thread started first, that would mean that the press releases that started the other threads would get buried deep in the combined thread. I have no objection to changing this thread's title. I started a similar thread last year about a possible Gray Media Group dispute, but those channels never actually got dropped. So, the "looming" remained appropriate for that thread until it was known that the possibility of those channels getting dropped any time soon had passed. For this thread, now that the Nexstar channels are gone, how about changing the thread title to: "Nexstar channels dropped... I warned you first!"

 

[telstar_1]

As the thread starter, I whole-heartedly agree! I had been been hoping that this thread would simply get merged with the other thread(s) about the Nexstar dispute. However, since this thread started first, that would mean that the press releases that started the other threads would get buried deep in the combined thread. I have no objection to changing this thread's title. I started a similar thread last year about a possible Gray Media Group dispute, but those channels never actually got dropped. So, the "looming" remained appropriate for that thread until it was known that the possibility of those channels getting dropped any time soon had passed. For this thread, now that the Nexstar channels are gone, how about changing the thread title to: "Nexstar channels dropped... I warned you first!"

Exactly how "gone" they are I'm now not so sure. In the last day, it looks like they're coming and going. Maybe DiSH is actively switching back and forth between station content and their propaganda as some kind of strategy to keep people tuning in to the situation and not just throwing up hands altogether. (???)

 

[pattykay]

Exactly how "gone" they are I'm now not so sure. In the last day, it looks like they're coming and going. Maybe DiSH is actively switching back and forth between station content and their propaganda as some kind of strategy to keep people tuning in to the situation and not just throwing up hands altogether. (???)

In any event, I did not put "gone" in my proposed thread title. The channels were indeed "dropped" (note that I was also careful not to say dropped by whom, since that is also a frequent point of argument in these threads) so my proposed new title still works.

 

[telstar_1]

In any event, I did not put "gone" in my proposed thread title. The channels were indeed "dropped" (note that I was also careful not to say dropped by whom, since that is also a frequent point of argument in these threads) so my proposed new title still works.

I didn't mean to comment on the thread title. Just to note my local observation seems odd. I thought at first they had come to agreement because it was back on, but then it was off again, then on again.

As to who does the dropping, very simply, the stations do the demanding and then the providers either pay what they ask, negotiate something less (but still way too much) or they lose contractual authorization to carry. I suppose they could then continue to carry anyway and risk lawsuit, but I don't know of any such situation. It's certainly unfair at the least to fault a provider for, let's say, "discontinuing" carriage of content for which an owner is demanding exorbitant fees. DiSH told HBO to take a hike over high fees awhile back.

 

[pattykay]

I suppose they could then continue to carry anyway and risk lawsuit, but I don't know of any such situation.

Dish actually did that with four Disney HD feeds, many years ago, around 2008 if I remember correctly. There was a dispute over whether Dish's contract with Disney actually allowed Dish to carry those HD feeds, and Disney did sue Dish to get them to stop broadcasting them. It took a few years before it was time for Dish to negotiate a new contract with Disney. So those HD feeds remained missing for the remainder of the old contact, until the new contract was finally reached.

 

[mwdxer1]

Well, first, much as DiSH would like to frame this as the local affiliates "taking down" their signals, it's Charlie who does the taking down. As in, off sat, because he doesn't want to pay the freight the locals are asking. Which is astronomical, and only skyrocketing from there. Over the years, DiSH has been the provider most resistant to locals demands, and has consequently had the most takedowns, but others, particularly DTV, have done a lot more takedowns as this has continued to worsen. Sat is under lots of pressures, and this may become a breaking point. They may well elect not only to forego lots more locals for lots longer, but possibly to concentrate the pain so that consumers rack up complaints with gov't. It costs providers like DiSH a ton already just to uplink & manage all of these disparate locals. Meanwhile over the years, more and more of the TV audience has been migrating away from the big 4 nets, and fewer and fewer really care about local content. They have websites & Facebook. If all sat locals were to go away, I would daresay most viewers would manage.

According to Sinclair, local KATU Portland was dropped by Dish in reality as they could not keep KATU up without a new contract. KATU's engineer told me, the station feed was very much available, but again, no contract no station. Otherwise Dish would certainly be immediately sued by the corporation with the dispute.

 

[zippyfrog]

Dish actually did that with four Disney HD feeds, many years ago, around 2008 if I remember correctly. There was a dispute over whether Dish's contract with Disney actually allowed Dish to carry those HD feeds, and Disney did sue Dish to get them to stop broadcasting them. It took a few years before it was time for Dish to negotiate a new contract with Disney. So those HD feeds remained missing for the remainder of the old contact, until the new contract was finally reached.

I remember the feeds were pulled in summer of 2010 - I got Dish in 2009 and the feeds were there - I don't know the timeline of the lawsuit but maybe it started in 2008 and was resolved in 2010 and they had to remove the feeds. To this day, we have not gotten Disney XD back in HD. We did get the other 3 back in HD with the new contract (ESPNews, ABC Family (now Freeform), and Disney Channel) and also finally got ESPNU in HD for the first time.

 

[pattykay]

I remember the feeds were pulled in summer of 2010 - I got Dish in 2009 and the feeds were there - I don't know the timeline of the lawsuit but maybe it started in 2008 and was resolved in 2010 and they had to remove the feeds. To this day, we have not gotten Disney XD back in HD. We did get the other 3 back in HD with the new contract (ESPNews, ABC Family (now Freeform), and Disney Channel) and also finally got ESPNU in HD for the first time.

Yes, that is what I meant: Dish started carrying those HD feeds in 2008. Dish had a "most favored nation" clause in their contract with Disney, meaning that if Disney gave a better deal to another distributor, then they had to match that deal with Dish. If I am remembering the details correctly, Disney gave Directv a deal for the same price that Dish was paying for the channels, but Directv's deal also included those four HD feeds. So, Dish was like, "Hey, you had better give us those feeds now, too!" There was a dispute over the exact meaning of the "most favored nation" language, as to whether it only referred to the price and which specific channels were included, or whether it also included the resolution (SD / HD) of the feeds being provided. Disney thought that they were not obligated to provide those HD feeds to Dish (and eventually prevailed) but Disney continued to send the feeds to Dish anyway, just in case they were found to be obligated to let Dish have them.

In the meantime, Dish created some "HD-only" packages. At first, those packages only included HD feeds being carried by Dish, as advertised. However, likely due to contractual obligations, Dish later added the SD feeds of those HD channels to the HD-only packages. Notably, the SD feeds of the four disputed Disney channels were never added to the HD-only packages. So, when Dish was finally forced to remove those HD feeds, those packages lost those channels entirely.

 

[NYDutch]

According to Sinclair, local KATU Portland was dropped by Dish in reality as they could not keep KATU up without a new contract. KATU's engineer told me, the station feed was very much available, but again, no contract no station. Otherwise Dish would certainly be immediately sued by the corporation with the dispute.

Instead of saying Dish "dropped" a station, which is just a technical matter based on a legal issue, it would be clearer to say the station "withdrew permission" for Dish to carry their station.

 

[pattykay]

Instead of saying Dish "dropped" a station, which is just a technical matter based on a legal issue, it would be clearer to say the station "withdrew permission" for Dish to carry their station.

New thread title:
"Nexstar channels withdrew permission from Dish... I warned you first!"

 

[CyberSpock]

New thread title:
"Nexstar channels withdrew permission from Dish... I warned you first!"

That settles it then. In the dispute how can it be Dish's fault? If they had permission they would still be rebroadcasting

Sent from my SM-G965U1 using Tapatalk

 

[DJ Lon]

I find it interesting that Dish Promise still makes no mention of WGN America being gone

 

[Howard Simmons]

This thread has us all commenting on how the the thread should be worded. Well I'm dropping this thread until we get a new contract.

 

[pattykay]

I find it interesting that Dish Promise still makes no mention of WGN America being gone

I noticed that, too. I thought that was simply because WGN America was not included in my Dish programming package, even before the dispute. On the other hand, their message about my local Fox affiliate (WJW) is plastered all over Dish Promise, even though I normally don't subscribe to locals, either. (I do add the locals on the days when I want to watch something on CW.) However, the Dish Promise Nexstar message does contain the same wording about WGN America from the press release (prominently available in the first post of a couple of other Nexstar threads, if you want to read the entire press release):
"Nexstar is also forcing DISH to carry their WGN America Channel as part of this deal. They acquired this channel when they bought Tribune last year. Now to payback this investment, they are looking for a significant payment for this low rated channel that mostly airs old reruns which many of these shows can be found elsewhere on DISH."
Brian Neylon also mentions the same thing in the video that is available to watch on the Dish Promise site.

 

[mwdxer1]

Instead of saying Dish "dropped" a station, which is just a technical matter based on a legal issue, it would be clearer to say the station "withdrew permission" for Dish to carry their station.

Yes, That would be a more accurate term. The feed is still alive and well out there, but the carrier cannot put it back without a contract.

 

[pattykay]

No stations have been lost in SW Florida (Naples / Fort Myers)

You were saying?

Uplink Activity Updates » Blog Archive » 2/6/21 at 6:54pm ET (v02) – 6 changes seen

uplink.jameslong.name

New Uplinks / Mappings – Channels Available
5171 LOCAL (11 HD Local) CARRIAGE DISPUTE added to 129° 4s54 (South Florida) (HD Fort Myers, FL market Hidden) AVAILABLE DRM – VOD Link – xED
5171 LOCAL (11 HD Local) CARRIAGE DISPUTE added to 61.5° 26s41 (S Florida) (HD Fort Myers, FL market Hidden) AVAILABLE DRM – VOD Link – xED
9216 LOCAL (11 Local) CARRIAGE DISPUTE added to 110° 4s1 (South Florida) (SD Fort Myers, FL market Hidden) AVAILABLE DRM – VOD Link – xED


Uplinks Removed
5171 WINK (11 HD Local) FORT MYERS, FL (CBS) removed from 129° 4s54 (South Florida) (HD Fort Myers, FL market Hidden)
5171 WINK (11 HD Local) FORT MYERS, FL (CBS) removed from 61.5° 26s41 (S Florida) (HD Fort Myers, FL market Hidden)
9216 WINK (11 Local) FORT MYERS, FL (CBS) removed from 110° 4s1 (South Florida) (SD Fort Myers, FL market Hidden)

I told you some kind of dispute was upcoming for Dish in the Fort Myers market. And great timing, too, right before the Super Bowl.

 

[sam_gordon]

You were saying?

Uplink Activity Updates » Blog Archive » 2/6/21 at 6:54pm ET (v02) – 6 changes seen

uplink.jameslong.name

New Uplinks / Mappings – Channels Available
5171 LOCAL (11 HD Local) CARRIAGE DISPUTE added to 129° 4s54 (South Florida) (HD Fort Myers, FL market Hidden) AVAILABLE DRM – VOD Link – xED
5171 LOCAL (11 HD Local) CARRIAGE DISPUTE added to 61.5° 26s41 (S Florida) (HD Fort Myers, FL market Hidden) AVAILABLE DRM – VOD Link – xED
9216 LOCAL (11 Local) CARRIAGE DISPUTE added to 110° 4s1 (South Florida) (SD Fort Myers, FL market Hidden) AVAILABLE DRM – VOD Link – xED


Uplinks Removed
5171 WINK (11 HD Local) FORT MYERS, FL (CBS) removed from 129° 4s54 (South Florida) (HD Fort Myers, FL market Hidden)
5171 WINK (11 HD Local) FORT MYERS, FL (CBS) removed from 61.5° 26s41 (S Florida) (HD Fort Myers, FL market Hidden)
9216 WINK (11 Local) FORT MYERS, FL (CBS) removed from 110° 4s1 (South Florida) (SD Fort Myers, FL market Hidden)

I told you some kind of dispute was upcoming for Dish in the Fort Myers market. And great timing, too, right before the Super Bowl.

Looks like they're owned locally, although they operate some Naples channels.

 

[HobbyTalk]

You were saying?

Uplink Activity Updates » Blog Archive » 2/6/21 at 6:54pm ET (v02) – 6 changes seen

uplink.jameslong.name

New Uplinks / Mappings – Channels Available
5171 LOCAL (11 HD Local) CARRIAGE DISPUTE added to 129° 4s54 (South Florida) (HD Fort Myers, FL market Hidden) AVAILABLE DRM – VOD Link – xED
5171 LOCAL (11 HD Local) CARRIAGE DISPUTE added to 61.5° 26s41 (S Florida) (HD Fort Myers, FL market Hidden) AVAILABLE DRM – VOD Link – xED
9216 LOCAL (11 Local) CARRIAGE DISPUTE added to 110° 4s1 (South Florida) (SD Fort Myers, FL market Hidden) AVAILABLE DRM – VOD Link – xED


Uplinks Removed
5171 WINK (11 HD Local) FORT MYERS, FL (CBS) removed from 129° 4s54 (South Florida) (HD Fort Myers, FL market Hidden)
5171 WINK (11 HD Local) FORT MYERS, FL (CBS) removed from 61.5° 26s41 (S Florida) (HD Fort Myers, FL market Hidden)
9216 WINK (11 Local) FORT MYERS, FL (CBS) removed from 110° 4s1 (South Florida) (SD Fort Myers, FL market Hidden)

I told you some kind of dispute was upcoming for Dish in the Fort Myers market. And great timing, too, right before the Super Bowl.

The station is owned by the McBride family and their Fort Myers Broadcasting Company, making it one of a handful of TV stations today to have locally-based ownership. This thread is about Nexstar right?

 

[pattykay]

This thread is about Nexstar right?

It was, but that dispute is long over now. I was simply proving that I had taken upcoming disputes into account when I was posting my earlier list of markets with no local disputes on Dish. The new thread about the Fort Myers dispute had not yet been started at the time when I posted here.