New Dish'n it up promo
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Pardon my ignorance, but I am not catching on to your concern. Please let me try to clarify my point.snathanb said:
If you get something that has a specific duration (30 day, 90 day or 1 year) warranty, say a satellite radio receiver. How, after the expiration of the warranty period, can the manufacturer be held accountable for the functionality of their product (given the exception of gross negligence.....death, dismemberment, etc. etc).
I am going to open myself up for a "I-have-rights-as-consumer" counter attack with this next statement, but No high-tech, electronic-based business, or any type of business, could possible stay solvent if a product was automatically given a non-inferred lifetime warranty. I have leased my DSL modem for over a year now and the warranty has expired. I understand that I cannot go back and demand a free modem replacement because I acknowledged that the manufacturer gave me a specific window (one year) of their liability. I could have opted for the extended warranty, but I did not. So I assumed the risk that the modem would continue to work after the one year manufacturer's warranty expired.
I am I still way off in my thinking?
If you BUY it, then, yes, it is your responsibility after the warranty has expired. If your service provider buys it, and provides it to you, then it is their responsibility to ensure you have properly working equipment to receive their service.Sat_Jockey said:
It is an industry standard practice in that the cable companies already do this, as well as the former PrimeStar satellite service.
Are you sure you lease it? My DSL provider, SBC, gave me a free DSL modem as part of their introductory promotion. It is mine to keep, sell, melt, eat, etc. If it breaks out of warranty, I will buy a new one. If they only loaned one to me for the duration of my service, then I would expect a free replacement.
Yup.
Cyclone said:
This is also a way to make sure that a majority of E*s customers will have current technology. Eventually we could see older "legacy" equipment no longer being supported. They may even go to an all DVR strategy using this model. If they are in control of the units in the field then they can more easily transition to newer technologies as they become available. Cable TV does the same thing. Years ago I was on a system in Oxnard CA called Jones Intercable. When they upgraded the system in my area they made it mandatory to swap out the box. The big difference is that swapout was free! I seriously doubt that E* would upgrade an old model 1000 for free even if it were in their long term best interest.
I do not know what legal binding status a standard business practice holds. However, it should affect only the companies that choose to apply that practice? Right? What I am saying is that I entered into the "Dish'n It Up" program with the knowledge that Echostar would be suppling a 90 warranty on installation and equipment. After that I will assume the full financial responsibility of replacing my 811 (meltdown) or to have service representative come out to my home.
Please understand that if I start to have too many problems with the 811 (always a remote chance
after my warranty coverage expires, I will dump it for some other receiver or satellite service. I might call and complain (like any good American consumer) about my problem and hopefully get a free replacement. However I cannot, in good conscience, demand that I get a free replacement receiver.
About my leased DSL modem -- A case for the standard business practice. Qwest (my only DSL provider) offers a lease or buy program only. I opted for the lease since Qwest has a questionable name in the tele-communication world and I was new the the DSL world.
Please understand that if I start to have too many problems with the 811 (always a remote chance
after my warranty coverage expires, I will dump it for some other receiver or satellite service. I might call and complain (like any good American consumer) about my problem and hopefully get a free replacement. However I cannot, in good conscience, demand that I get a free replacement receiver.About my leased DSL modem -- A case for the standard business practice. Qwest (my only DSL provider) offers a lease or buy program only. I opted for the lease since Qwest has a questionable name in the tele-communication world and I was new the the DSL world.
I think you're missing an important point here - with NO contract (other than return boxes when cancelling), E* is totally nuts to charge you extra - even a shipping charge - if THEIR box breaks. All the consumer has to do is switch to the competition, usually FOR FREE. Ignore morality or legality, REALITY intrudes.
Cellphone providers have figured it out, pay TV is next.
Cellphone providers have figured it out, pay TV is next.
SimpleSimon said:
I suspect the total number of people who have problems with this during their first year are small. Even the ones who do have problems, even though they could switch to a different provider, how many will want to go through the hassle of taking time off from work waiting for a cable or D* installer to come out who may or may not show up on the appointed day to replace the equipment over a $14.95 S&H charge? I think the risk to E* is quite small in reality.
jrbdmb said:
According to the Leased Equipment section of the Residential Customer Agreement you only have to pay for repairs if you break it.
"B. You shall notify us promptly of any defect in, damage to, or accident involving the equipment. All maintenance and repair of the equipment shall be performed by us or our designees. DISH Network may charge you for any repairs that are necessitated by any damage to, or misuse of, the Equipment."
If my 522 dies because of a defect in the equipment (say the hard drive fails) I expect Dish to repair/replace it for free.
I agree, it doesn't make sense that I should be expected to pay extra for a warranty on equipment I don't own.
It seems to me that a hard drive failure would be one of the things NOT specifically covered because they are more or less a wear item. You wouldn't expect a car manufacturer to provide new tires or brake pads every 30,000 miles. I doubt that E* will provide a remanufactured 510 free of charge five years down the road when the HD gives out.
dlsnyder said:
I agree, but with the technology on these box's changing and the more liberal upgrade deals from E* to keep subs loyal, who will keep the same DVR for 5 years?
That's the beauty of an all-lease subscriber base. You can continually upgrade to new technologies without owners of older equipment crying about being left behind - kind of like what happened with owners of the model 5000 with the HDTV adapter. If you don't own the equipment there is less of an impediment to upgrading the system.
maximum said:
This plan is looking better and better... If you do not have to pay for repairs, and the $5 rental is instead of the extra reciever fee, you are essentially just paying for the install and getting use of the box for free.
On top of that you as the end user are not stuck with an old box that you don't want/need/can't use anymore. When one day E* switches over to all 8PSK modulation the market on Ebay will suddenly drop out for that old 2700. It's too bad we can't even use them as FTA receivers.
I guess it will not be long until my old 2000 and 2700 will make someone a good boat anchor 
. Once again I find my self agreeing with mike123abc, this plan and the DHA plan which it seams to be based on is looking better and better all the time 
.
. Once again I find my self agreeing with mike123abc, this plan and the DHA plan which it seams to be based on is looking better and better all the time .mike123abc said:
That's how I felt about it... but it was pointed out to me that one difference is you will never be able to sell the receiver and recoup some of those $5 fees. While maybe not significant on a 311, it could spell good money for a DVR or 811.
Having to pay for repair on a receiver I would not own instead of just buying a used one to replace it or do without it (at least for a while until I can afford to buy another one) would NOT be an option for those on the lease, therefore is another reason why I would not want to lease any receivers. Also you would have no control over the receivers such as being able to sell them to buy a different type as we can do now if we just buy one that is used and then sell it and buy another one later on (paying a difference) to get another one. I do not see that as much different than the lease, other than not having to pay much (if anything) upfront the first time.
I can see this program becoming the "norm" and ownership of recievers fades away. But, I do not like it in its current form and would like to see these changes:
1. You can get as many recievers as you want (up to the account limit of 6) and you just pay a deposit on the ones that are beyond your "free" allotment. When you return the "extra" recievers you get 100% of your deposit back. This would allow you to have 6 942s if you wanted to pay the $500/each past the first free one. I do not want to be told I can only have 1 942, 1 811 and be stuck with 4 301s.
2. Dish fixes the warrantee, a basic warrantee is included in all AT packages. A deluxe warrantee would be separate. But, the basic warrantee would allow you to send in any broken reciever (provided not customer fault like smashed) and for a shipping/handling fee of like $15 you get a replacement. The deluxe warrantee would have someone come to your house and switch out the reciever for you. Note that cable switches stuff for free, and this is moving to the cable model.
The new system really is an advantage for Dish because they do not have to "give" as much stuff to a new subscriber upfront. Essentially E* still owns the equipment so they can write off the expense over the expected lifetime of the equipment. They can also set new subs up with reconditioned/returned equipment. So, essentially Dish's up front costs drop down to the cost of the install.
Most customers would probably be satisified with 942/522/811/322 combinations. Those that wanted special (like all 942s) would be satisified also. Dish could then upgrade recievers as they needed to without a million unhappy people.
New customers are "hurt" since they lose the right to sell on ebay all the equipment after they fulfill their yearly commit.
1. You can get as many recievers as you want (up to the account limit of 6) and you just pay a deposit on the ones that are beyond your "free" allotment. When you return the "extra" recievers you get 100% of your deposit back. This would allow you to have 6 942s if you wanted to pay the $500/each past the first free one. I do not want to be told I can only have 1 942, 1 811 and be stuck with 4 301s.
2. Dish fixes the warrantee, a basic warrantee is included in all AT packages. A deluxe warrantee would be separate. But, the basic warrantee would allow you to send in any broken reciever (provided not customer fault like smashed) and for a shipping/handling fee of like $15 you get a replacement. The deluxe warrantee would have someone come to your house and switch out the reciever for you. Note that cable switches stuff for free, and this is moving to the cable model.
The new system really is an advantage for Dish because they do not have to "give" as much stuff to a new subscriber upfront. Essentially E* still owns the equipment so they can write off the expense over the expected lifetime of the equipment. They can also set new subs up with reconditioned/returned equipment. So, essentially Dish's up front costs drop down to the cost of the install.
Most customers would probably be satisified with 942/522/811/322 combinations. Those that wanted special (like all 942s) would be satisified also. Dish could then upgrade recievers as they needed to without a million unhappy people.
New customers are "hurt" since they lose the right to sell on ebay all the equipment after they fulfill their yearly commit.
mike: as a retailer, I just think going to 100% leasing system will be a shipping and logistical nightmare.
I would hope that they plan to just use the leasing model for the more expensive receivers. Leasing, returning, and repackaging basick receivers like a 311 or a 111, which are constantly falling in manufacturing costs, is more trouble than its worth. I mean refurb 301 or a new 111 costs $79, so it must cost less than $65 to manufacture. Shipping it back, repackaging it and reshipping probably costs $30-$35. That doesn't seem worth it. I say new customers still OWN the basic receivers and only lease the specialty ones, like the 811, 921, 522...
I would hope that they plan to just use the leasing model for the more expensive receivers. Leasing, returning, and repackaging basick receivers like a 311 or a 111, which are constantly falling in manufacturing costs, is more trouble than its worth. I mean refurb 301 or a new 111 costs $79, so it must cost less than $65 to manufacture. Shipping it back, repackaging it and reshipping probably costs $30-$35. That doesn't seem worth it. I say new customers still OWN the basic receivers and only lease the specialty ones, like the 811, 921, 522...
One question I have is if they are going to go to where all receivers are leased, what are they going to do with the HDTV in a box stuff? is that why they are giving so many away? Are they going to get rid of them and not offer it anymore? Or do you think that they may go to a lease program on HDTV sets also? if so being a person who isn't rich, that may be a decent option for me plus with the changes in HDTV sets it may be a good idea that you could lease and upgrade later or something.
Does anyone have any thoughts on that?
Larry
Does anyone have any thoughts on that?
Larry
Poosh: yeah, I thought the same thing. I still don't have an HDTV. Sure it would be great to get an 811 for free, but if you don't have a TV, the HDTV in a box is the best deal there is. There is no "installation fee" with HDTV in a box and free shipping so you get to own the $811 for $100.
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