New Dish Cell Phone

[DishSubLA]

Yeah, they haven't been totally clear about their 5G plans but I do get the sense that they largely plan to use that network for enterprise/IoT customers and perhaps even overflow/roaming for one or more of the big 3. And that will be in addition to having their prepaid cellular customers (Boost, Ting, Republic) use it too as they gradually upgrade to phones capable of accessing Dish's 5G bands. All of which is to say that we very well may not see Dish launch a fourth major consumer-facing cellular service intended to directly compete with AT&T, Verizon and T-Mobile (which is clearly what the DOJ and FCC intended to happen when they allowed T-Mo to buy Sprint). Although perhaps, in time, they'll merge their prepaid brands into a single new brand.

The whole situation is still pretty murky and I'm honestly still not sure that I think Dish will end up building out their 5G network broadly enough and quickly enough to hit the deadlines the FCC has set for them.

Yes, and I think this phone will go along way to demonstrating to the FCC that Dish is SERIOUS about using its spectrum, but Dish wants 5G only, and not have to build out--for a NEW entrant in wireless--what would be legacy technology (4G/LTE). That strategy really does make the most sense for a new entrant.

Also, while I believe the FCC is being pressured by the big 3 wireless companies to clamp down on Dish to get rid of a 4th competitor, the TRUTH is that the FCC knows there is NO OTHER entity prepared or WILLING to take Dish's place as a 4th wireless carrier because the entire point of allowing the T-Mobile/Spring merge was that a 4th Carrier was absolutely REQUIRED for the merge to be approved.

The FCC knows that they are better off approving extensions or in some other ways working with Dish because if they don't, the FCC knows the process would have to start all over again and even pro-consumer groups would cry LOUD foul in their objection to end Dish's efforts because it would mean even MORE years before a 4th wireless network competitor could get off the ground, and we would all rather take--however imperfect and slower paced--the sooner to happen Dish 4th wireless service than to grant the 3 big wireless companies their wish to greatly delay a 4th wireless company competitor being a reality for far longer than it would be to accommodate Dish.

But the FCC has to talk tough (and, maybe they should) and put the heat under Dish to get moving so they don't look like they are letting Dish drag their feet--but then again, ALL the wireless carriers are behind their schedules with a tower build out backlog for everyone. Please, the big 3 PHONY 5G network maps are a great illusion. Just make the "dots" really large for a single tower and it looks like they cover a huge metro area. NOT! Real life experiences with a dash here and there but lots of NO 5G service almost everywhere tell the real story.

 

[Juan]

Uh, like, your response post, Juan, is the definition of an MVNO. We all learned so much from it! Thank you for stating the obvious and redundant. Putting your humor aside, the point is Dish, with its ownership of Boost Mobile, is currently operating as an MVNO and will eventually operate as part MVNO and part 4th carrier network. Further, while the big carriers also own and operate their own "MVNO's" so to speak (and I presume you knew that?), they, too, have find gold in them there hills.

The fact of true MVNO's piggy backing on the big carriers network is irrelevant to the point that these MVNO companies have and continue to steal large numbers of customers away from the big 3 and on to their much less expensive services. The numerous TV commercials for each of them, including the Ryan Reynolds pitch for Mint Mobile is evidence of the all the MVNO"s momentum and why Verizon is picking up the grand-daddy of all MVNO's: TracFine inc, with its numerous brands for various segments of the market. Even the "MVNO's" owned by the big 2 (Verizon's was a diaster, and that is why they have bought TracFone, inc.) have impressive number of customers and are making money working both sides of the street. Expect MVNO businesses to continue impressive growth, and the fact that MVNO's piggyback on the big carriers is a fact that the vast majority of MVNO customers don't know, and--unless they are savvy and want to use, say, Verizon's network--don't care.

The 5g network for Dish is going to connect to hoppers and such...basically a land based Dish Network with 2 way communication for rural folk...its never gonna be a 5g cellular network like a traditional carrier..its gonna be wireless internet...its waaaaay too expensive to build a complete cellular network when you skin the cream off the top with a wireless network in areas the big boys ignore...cell phones morphed into smart devices which eventually will morph into something else

 

[NYDutch]

Uh, like, your response post, Juan, is the definition of an MVNO. We all learned so much from it! Thank you for stating the obvious and redundant. Putting your humor aside, the point is Dish, with its ownership of Boost Mobile, is currently operating as an MVNO and will eventually operate as part MVNO and part 4th carrier network. Further, while the big carriers also own and operate their own "MVNO's" so to speak (and I presume you knew that?), they, too, have find gold in them there hills.

The fact of true MVNO's piggy backing on the big carriers network is irrelevant to the point that these MVNO companies have and continue to steal large numbers of customers away from the big 3 and on to their much less expensive services. The numerous TV commercials for each of them, including the Ryan Reynolds pitch for Mint Mobile is evidence of the all the MVNO"s momentum and why Verizon is picking up the grand-daddy of all MVNO's: TracFine inc, with its numerous brands for various segments of the market. Even the "MVNO's" owned by the big 2 (Verizon's was a diaster, and that is why they have bought TracFone, inc.) have impressive number of customers and are making money working both sides of the street. Expect MVNO businesses to continue impressive growth, and the fact that MVNO's piggyback on the big carriers is a fact that the vast majority of MVNO customers don't know, and--unless they are savvy and want to use, say, Verizon's network--don't care.

I don't think I'd characterize MVNO's as "stealing" customers from the big guys. The big guys obviously know that MVNO's are quite profitable for them since they buy in bulk and impose virtually no subscriber support or billing issues on them, a huge savings I would think. Verizon has apparently done quite well with their Visible MVNO subsidiary, and I expect they'll continue to do as well with the Tracfone addition as Carlos Slim has over the years.

 

[NYDutch]

The 5g network for Dish is going to connect to hoppers and such...basically a land based Dish Network with 2 way communication for rural folk...its never gonna be a 5g cellular network like a traditional carrier..its gonna be wireless internet...its waaaaay too expensive to build a complete cellular network when you skin the cream off the top with a wireless network in areas the big boys ignore...cell phones morphed into smart devices which eventually will morph into something else

With the death of 3G, all remaining cell service, 4G/LTE and 5G, will be functionally Internet/data only. CDMA and GSM will cease to exist when the last 3G tower shuts down.

 

[NashGuy]

Yes, and I think this phone will go along way to demonstrating to the FCC that Dish is SERIOUS about using its spectrum, but Dish wants 5G only, and not have to build out--for a NEW entrant in wireless--what would be legacy technology (4G/LTE). That strategy really does make the most sense for a new entrant.

Also, while I believe the FCC is being pressured by the big 3 wireless companies to clamp down on Dish to get rid of a 4th competitor, the TRUTH is that the FCC knows there is NO OTHER entity prepared or WILLING to take Dish's place as a 4th wireless carrier because the entire point of allowing the T-Mobile/Spring merge was that a 4th Carrier was absolutely REQUIRED for the merge to be approved.

The FCC knows that they are better off approving extensions or in some other ways working with Dish because if they don't, the FCC knows the process would have to start all over again and even pro-consumer groups would cry LOUD foul in their objection to end Dish's efforts because it would mean even MORE years before a 4th wireless network competitor could get off the ground, and we would all rather take--however imperfect and slower paced--the sooner to happen Dish 4th wireless service than to grant the 3 big wireless companies their wish to greatly delay a 4th wireless company competitor being a reality for far longer than it would be to accommodate Dish.

But the FCC has to talk tough (and, maybe they should) and put the heat under Dish to get moving so they don't look like they are letting Dish drag their feet--but then again, ALL the wireless carriers are behind their schedules with a tower build out backlog for everyone. Please, the big 3 PHONY 5G network maps are a great illusion. Just make the "dots" really large for a single tower and it looks like they cover a huge metro area. NOT! Real life experiences with a dash here and there but lots of NO 5G service almost everywhere tell the real story.

Eh, T-Mobile has deployed a ton of mid-range 5G that covers big swathes of metro areas and now Verizon and AT&T are doing the same. It's true that the millimeter-wave 5G -- which is all Verizon and AT&T had deployed before this year -- reaches very few actual users because its range is so limited, like 2 or 3 city blocks and barely able to penetrate into buildings. But that's not the case with the midrange 5G (which T-Mobile has a ton of thanks to their acquisition of Sprint).

Obviously, the best-case scenario for consumers is for DISH to build out a big nationwide 5G network to provide greater competition and better prices for consumers. But again, I don't really know if that's ever going to happen. And if it isn't, then consumers would be better served by the FCC yanking all those unused spectrum licenses from DISH and auctioning them off to the big 3 so that the spectrum can actually be used. Which is why there are deployment deadlines on spectrum licenses. If DISH doesn't follow through, the FCC probably isn't going to find anyone else to step into that number 4 role. Although perhaps they could get Comcast and Charter to team up to buy and build out some of the spectrum to make less reliant on Verizon's network and make the wireless industry a bit more competitive that way.

 

[navychop]

So Dish “cellular” may support Dish TV, vehicle communications and other industrial uses. “Telephone” and smart phone services would be an easy cherry on top.

I think they can get an easy 3 year extension- maybe more.

 

[NYDutch]

Yes, and I think this phone will go along way to demonstrating to the FCC that Dish is SERIOUS about using its spectrum, but Dish wants 5G only, and not have to build out--for a NEW entrant in wireless--what would be legacy technology (4G/LTE). That strategy really does make the most sense for a new entrant.

Also, while I believe the FCC is being pressured by the big 3 wireless companies to clamp down on Dish to get rid of a 4th competitor, the TRUTH is that the FCC knows there is NO OTHER entity prepared or WILLING to take Dish's place as a 4th wireless carrier because the entire point of allowing the T-Mobile/Spring merge was that a 4th Carrier was absolutely REQUIRED for the merge to be approved.

The FCC knows that they are better off approving extensions or in some other ways working with Dish because if they don't, the FCC knows the process would have to start all over again and even pro-consumer groups would cry LOUD foul in their objection to end Dish's efforts because it would mean even MORE years before a 4th wireless network competitor could get off the ground, and we would all rather take--however imperfect and slower paced--the sooner to happen Dish 4th wireless service than to grant the 3 big wireless companies their wish to greatly delay a 4th wireless company competitor being a reality for far longer than it would be to accommodate Dish.

But the FCC has to talk tough (and, maybe they should) and put the heat under Dish to get moving so they don't look like they are letting Dish drag their feet--but then again, ALL the wireless carriers are behind their schedules with a tower build out backlog for everyone. Please, the big 3 PHONY 5G network maps are a great illusion. Just make the "dots" really large for a single tower and it looks like they cover a huge metro area. NOT! Real life experiences with a dash here and there but lots of NO 5G service almost everywhere tell the real story.

I agree the new phone does show Dish is serious about the retail cell subscriber market. Given today's supply chain issues, chip shortages, labor shortages, etc, I doubt Dish would have much trouble getting roll-out extensions if needed.

 

[dishdude]

I don't think I'd characterize MVNO's as "stealing" customers from the big guys. The big guys obviously know that MVNO's are quite profitable for them since they buy in bulk and impose virtually no subscriber support or billing issues on them, a huge savings I would think. Verizon has apparently done quite well with their Visible MVNO subsidiary, and I expect they'll continue to do as well with the Tracfone addition as Carlos Slim has over the years.

The MVNOs are also buying left over capacity, the carrier's premium postpaid subscribers get priority on the network. The only exception to this I believe is Google Fi - they don't seem to get deprioritized.

 

[TheKrell]

CDMA and GSM will cease to exist when the last 3G tower shuts down.

My current GSM phone has an LTE, H, and even E letters depending upon what data frequencies are available. Are you saying that all of them will go away except for the LTE? How about voice?

 

[rvvaquero]

My current GSM phone has an LTE, H, and even E letters depending upon what data frequencies are available. Are you saying that all of them will go away except for the LTE? How about voice?

When 3G is shut down (in Feb for ATT) all phones must be VOLTE or Voice Over LTE. This has been the standard on most smart phones for a few years now. ATT is pretty particular about which phones they will allow on their network, but they must be VOLTE capable at a minimum.

 

[NYDutch]

My current GSM phone has an LTE, H, and even E letters depending upon what data frequencies are available. Are you saying that all of them will go away except for the LTE? How about voice?

As said, VOLTE will be the universal voice standard when 3G shuts down. I don't know what bands the 'H' and 'E' indicators are for. Does your phone support VOLTE or HD Voice?

 

[EarDemon]

E = EDGE, Enhanced Data rates for GSM Evolution
H = HSPA, High Speed Packet Access

Unofficially EDGE is considered a 2.5G technology, HSPA a 3.5G technology. EDGE is what the very first iPhone used, so yeah it's old. The successor to HSPA was HSPA+ which AT&T called 4G before they jumped on the LTE bandwagon. AT&Ts HSPA and HSPA+ network operates on bands 5 (850 MHz) and 2 (1900 MHz), which are both being reused for 5G NR.

I would expect all of this to go away. LTE and NR will be the only technologies in use going forward

 

[klang]

So does all this mean TheKrell needs a new phone? Pretty quick?

 

[TheKrell]

Does your phone support VOLTE

I use a Moto G5 and yes it does. I got a letter from T-Mobile about an old iPhone (4S?) used by my sister that will lose data. But I didn't realize it would lose voice as well, if that is what will happen. I already bought her a new Nokia, so she may be forced to move over.

 

[Juan]

I use a Moto G5 and yes it does. I got a letter from T-Mobile about an old iPhone (4S?) used by my sister that will lose data. But I didn't realize it would lose voice as well, if that is what will happen. I already bought her a new Nokia, so she may be forced to move over.

Get the new dish phone

 

[TheKrell]

Get the new dish phone

How big is it? Does it have an aluminum case? Does it have a removable battery?

 

[NashGuy]

I agree the new phone does show Dish is serious about the retail cell subscriber market. Given today's supply chain issues, chip shortages, labor shortages, etc, I doubt Dish would have much trouble getting roll-out extensions if needed.

I'm not sure that a single generic brand phone indicates that they're "serious" about retail 5G phone service. Looks to me more like an attempt to have *something* to show the FCC.

 

[navychop]

Oog doesn’t make cell phones anymore, just rocks and arrows. For all practical purposes, neither does Nokia. Removable batteries are ripe for the Smithsonian.

All makers want to move to cases made from Unobtanium.

 

[Juan]

How big is it? Does it have an aluminum case? Does it have a removable battery?

You have to reboot it nightly

 

[NYDutch]

I'm not sure that a single generic brand phone indicates that they're "serious" about retail 5G phone service. Looks to me more like an attempt to have *something* to show the FCC.

I won't be surprised to see more Dish phone models coming out as they work on moving subscribers off of T-Mobile and eventually AT&T as the Dish 5G network expands. Showing the FCC phones won't do anything for the coverage goals they have to meet. With phones designed to be compatible with Dish as well as the other carriers, they'll be able shift people over pretty seamlessly.