need help on final setup

[Othea]

Signal Quality, not Signal Strength

Willie -- Good signal strength does not mean that you are pointing in the right direction. You can have good signal strength just by merely attaching a working lnbf. The signal quality is what you need to concentrate on. Once you have a few percentage points there, that will mean that you are almost right on target.

 

[willie8605]

Willie -- Good signal strength does not mean that you are pointing in the right direction. You can have good signal strength just by merely attaching a working lnbf. The signal quality is what you need to concentrate on. Once you have a few percentage points there, that will mean that you are almost right on target.

LOL Great maybe I'm not as close to being done as I thought! Oh well, this is my first FTA project and I expected to not get it done right away. Still having fun though

I think I may need to adjust the dish b/c I think the post the dish is mounted to is not perfectly plumb; it is close, just not perfect. I am going to look into adjusting the post tonight and if that doesn't work I'll have to figure out how to make the right adjustments to the dish to compensate for the post being off.

Also, are there any good digital signal meters that aren't hundreds of dollars?

 

[phlatwound]

Unless you are motorizing your dish it's really not that big a deal if your post is a little out of plumb. You can make any slight allowance for the out of plumb condition with your elevation/azimuth/skew adjustment.

Is this your first setup? You might consider trying for something closer to your true south, there's a lot of stuff on 97W. Might be easier to get a signal there (not much skew to deal with). That way you verify functionality of your components, then go from there.

 

[willie8605]

Is this your first setup? You might consider trying for something closer to your true south, there's a lot of stuff on 97W. Might be easier to get a signal there (not much skew to deal with). That way you verify functionality of your components, then go from there.

Yes it is my first setup. Actually, I was about to ask if there was an easier satellite to aim for so I could check to make sure everything is working so I may try looking for this bird instead. But, I'm thinking that there might be a tree in the way of my true south.

 

[Othea]

Willie -- I've never used a portable signal meter. I've always used the signal meter in the receiver and a small TV set.
Tell me, can you see the signal meter on the TV while you are slowly moving the dish?

 

[willie8605]

Willie -- I've never used a portable signal meter. I've always used the signal meter in the receiver and a small TV set.
Tell me, can you see the signal meter on the TV while you are slowly moving the dish?

I can't see the tv when moving the dish. Unfortunately it is just a few feet out of view from a window that I can see the tv through. I have been getting my girlfriend to watch the meter on the tv and talk to me on the phone while I move the dish.

Last night I re-aimed the dish to try and pick up 97W. I am not sure if it is going to work b/c there is a tall tree just to the left and about 50 feet in front of the dish's line of sight. It's not directly in the way, but it's close. Tonight I'm going to try and tweak it's position and see if I can get anything.

Last night I was thinking about this stuff and realized that the post my dish is mounted to used to have a Directv dish on it. If I can find a bird close enough to the Directv satellite then I know for sure I should be able to pick up that signal b/c it has been done before from that location.

 

[AcWxRadar]

Willie,

No matter what anyone says, you must have your mast perfectly plumb! And it must be plumb in all directions. Don't take this initial step with a grain of salt, it is very important as all the other angles that you set depend upon this. Sorry, but I am personally very staunch on this one factor. It makes the setup so much easier! Please trust me on this one item.

I know that you can fudge this a little, but since this is your first setup, don't fudge it now.

You are residing in Stillwater or very close to there, so your dish elevation should be 39.95 degrees (or 40 degrees to make it simple).

Since you must skew the dish, instead of the LNBF, it should be set at 30.9 degrees (31 degrees). This is a positive angle for the skew, so you need to rotate the dish to the west - or if your were standing in front of the dish, roll the dish like a steering wheel to the left (CCW) 30.9 degrees. Remember that I am looking at the dish from the front of the dish when I state these directions, reverse them if you are standing behind the dish.

I am almost due north of you 5.5 degrees. I am here to the NW of Omaha, NE so many of my angles are going to match yours within reason. I can help you with a lot of your angles since we are along the similar longitude line.

Since you are looking for 123.0W Galaxy 18, try these TPs:

11.720 V SR 27.692 SITE 1
11.800 V SR 26.657 SITE 1
12.114 V SR 4.340 unknown network

RADAR

EDIT: If you ever set up with a motor, don't rely upon looking through the window or having your wife assist you with the dish alignment. You might get divorced and you really do need to see the direct response from your adjustments on the TV monitor to make it right. I guess what I mean to say is that your wife or girlfriend may noit appreciate the installation process and you would be better served by hauling a small TV set out to the dish where you can monitor the changes in signal strength directly and immediately. If your spouse is not interested in this avenue, don't force them to be a part of it. If they are not interested, they may be put out if you force them into helping you. Some individuals just do not understand this hobby. If they don't, then simply leave them out of the mix for the time being.

 

[DishDigger]

Take your time - -- No, TAKE YOUR TIME! When these guys say move slowly, they mean SLOW. It looks as though everything is ok with your set-up, your just not on the satellite. Those things are about 23,300 miles above the earth and you have to be within 2 degrees to even get a hint of a signal (quality) . The signal strength meter shows the connection from your receiver to the LNB -- THAT'S ALL. The meter you need to watch is the QUALITY. If it isn't registering anything, either your NOT on the satellite (remember less than 2 degrees from a line to the center of a satellite 23,000+ miles away), or you have an incorrect entry in the set-up .

SLOW -- good luck and welcome to the group. You're gonna like G18 - 123W.:up

Bill

 

[willie8605]

Take your time - -- No, TAKE YOUR TIME! When these guys say move slowly, they mean SLOW. It looks as though everything is ok with your set-up, your just not on the satellite. Those things are about 23,300 miles above the earth and you have to be within 2 degrees to even get a hint of a signal (quality) . The signal strength meter shows the connection from your receiver to the LNB -- THAT'S ALL. The meter you need to watch is the QUALITY. If it isn't registering anything, either your NOT on the satellite (remember less than 2 degrees from a line to the center of a satellite 23,000+ miles away), or you have an incorrect entry in the set-up .

SLOW -- good luck and welcome to the group. You're gonna like G18 - 123W.:up

Bill

If the signal strength meter shows the connection from my receiver to the LNB, then why is the highest I have ever seen it 72? I only have 50 feet of coax and it goes straight from the LNB to the receiver, not through any other equipment. It just seems like it would be higher than that for such a short and clean connection.

EDIT: And thanks, this forum is awesome. Everyone here is extremely knowledgeable/helpful and I find myself browsing this forum more often than anything else while online. It looks like I found a long-term hobby, and as much as this stuff interests me I may actually end up looking for a job in this realm once I graduate next May with my EE degree.

 

[willie8605]

I thought I might share this with you all.....

The mast I have my FTA dish mounted on was previously used for mounting a Directv dish. I am now in the process of constructing a biquad antenna for receiving wifi. Once complete, I am going to mount it on the old Directv dish for a nice long-range directional wifi antenna.

Here is the site where I first learned about this. I googled how Directv dishes could be reused and found the wifi antenna and a solar cooker using an old satellite dish and lots of foil. Consequently, this search led me into the world of FTA

TREVOR MARSHALL - Biquad feed for primestar dish

 

[phlatwound]

If the signal strength meter shows the connection from my receiver to the LNB, then why is the highest I have ever seen it 72? I only have 50 feet of coax and it goes straight from the LNB to the receiver, not through any other equipment. It just seems like it would be higher than that for such a short and clean connection....

I can understand your confusion on the signal strength meter, but it's nothing to worry about. Different receivers will display different signal strength numbers (just like they will read different quality numbers) while locked on to the same transponder. There are a lot of variables causing the readings you will see on different setups.

I can tell you I have locked and viewed signals when the strength number was much less than the 72% you have observed, those numbers are all relative.

Have you looked at this?:

Satellite Finder / Dish Pointing Calculator with Google Maps | DishPointer.com

You can enter your address to get close, then you can move the "pointer" to within a few feet of your dish location. By entering different satellites you can get a very good idea of where to point your dish to hit your desired target.

And, if possible you should just bring your receiver and a tv out to your dish, you just can't beat the instant real-time feedback you get that way. Don't give up, you're probably closer than you think!

 

[willie8605]

I can understand your confusion on the signal strength meter, but it's nothing to worry about. Different receivers will display different signal strength numbers (just like they will read different quality numbers) while locked on to the same transponder. There are a lot of variables causing the readings you will see on different setups.

I can tell you I have locked and viewed signals when the strength number was much less than the 72% you have observed, those numbers are all relative.

Have you looked at this?:

Satellite Finder / Dish Pointing Calculator with Google Maps | DishPointer.com

You can enter your address to get close, then you can move the "pointer" to within a few feet of your dish location. By entering different satellites you can get a very good idea of where to point your dish to hit your desired target.

And, if possible you should just bring your receiver and a tv out to your dish, you just can't beat the instant real-time feedback you get that way. Don't give up, you're probably closer than you think!

I have been using another satellite finder app using google maps. This one looks better so I'll have to bookmark it. Also, a guy I work with is supposed to be bringing me a small LCD monitor (I think he said it was a 3 or 4 inch screen) that has RCA jacks on it so I can hook my receiver up to it outside. Hopefully I will be watching 123W by Sunday

 

[DishDigger]

Willie, sorry to take so long to get back to ya. I can't explain the signal strength reading to you very well, I don't fully understand it myself , I was mainly trying to get your focus on the quality and not to worry much about the signal. I think that signal strength is in the ability to get full benefit of the LNB through your coax, connections, noise factor and efficiency of the LNB circuitry at the various frequencies of the local oscillator settings , etc. Even with this, I might be "blowing smoke", but just want to lessen the "importance" of the signal as compared to the quality level. I'm sure the signal is quite important, maybe need to use the level as a reference in furure trouble-shooting operations such as: "It was 76% two months ago, now 54%, maybe I have a deteriorating connection or water seeping into the cable somewhere."

I'll quit in case I'm so far off base that it's getting rediculous , but maybe I'm close. Either way, if you have seemingly a decent signal level, then you can focus on the quality. The signal level will show if all is well, even if you aren't getting a satellite signal.

DON'T GIVE UP, you're going to wonder why it was so difficult when things start coming together. Enjoy and keep asking questions, you'll get there -- YOU'RE HOOKED :!!

Bill

 

[willie8605]

I decided I had to find something tonight so I just lugged my 19" crt tv and my viewsat out to my dish. I tried to find 97W and boy did it take awhile to find some Q signal. I could only get it up to 23-25%. It got dark so I went inside. I hooked the viewsat back up inside and decided to see if I was off on my alignment and checked some of the satellites close to 97W. I tried 95W, Galaxy 3C, and the Q signal went up to 30%. I scanned for channels and picked up all 4 channels on the TP at 11779 (4 CCTV channels).

So, after all this, I have decided to just get a new mast this weekend. I'll probably make it out of metal pipe, instead of wood how it is now, and will probably make it taller. It would be just too hard to find anything with a mast affecting my alignment that much. I can't wait until this weekend

 

[Othea]

CCTV

Great -- that shows that your equipment works, and that you are close to your intended mark. You are now on 95°W; but if you are also picking up a signal from 97°W, that would indicate that you are somewhere between both satellites. The CCTV channels on 95°W are pretty strong, so you should be able to significantly improve the signal Quality by:
(1) nudging dish up, down, left, right
(2) adjusting lnbf skew a couple of degrees (rotate a bit left, a bit right)
(3) adjusting focal depth (move lnbf closer to dish, or farther away from dish) -- if at all possible with you dish and lnbf
Let us know how things go.
Lowe's Home Depot have metal fencing posts in the garden section that work pretty well -- but if you intend to use your dish on 1 satellite only, I would tend to think that a new "perfectly plumb" post is not essential right away.

 

[AcWxRadar]

Great -- that shows that your equipment works, and that you are close to your intended mark. You are now on 95°W; but if you are also picking up a signal from 97°W, that would indicate that you are somewhere between both satellites. The CCTV channels on 95°W are pretty strong, so you should be able to significantly improve the signal Quality by:
(1) nudging dish up, down, left, right
(2) adjusting lnbf skew a couple of degrees (rotate a bit left, a bit right)
(3) adjusting focal depth (move lnbf closer to dish, or farther away from dish) -- if at all possible with you dish and lnbf
Let us know how things go.
Lowe's Home Depot have metal fencing posts in the garden section that work pretty well -- but if you intend to use your dish on 1 satellite only, I would tend to think that a new "perfectly plumb" post is not essential right away.

Othea,

Please don't get mad at me for this, but I disagree with you. Sorry.

I think that it is very important to have a perfectly plumb mast.

Granted, I have set up dishes with masts that were not perfectly plumb before and made them work. But, it sure isn't for the faint of heart.

I am going to have to stick by my guns on this issue and recommend the practice to everyone, beginners and pros alike. Why cause your self trouble or extra work when you can easily avoid it?

I hope you do not think that I am out-0f-line. I simply have my opinion and it is a strong one based on past experience for myself.

I wish everyone good luck. otherwise.

RADAR

 

[Tron]

A plumb pole is very helpful on a fixed installation, and a completely plumb pole is essential for a motorized installation. To be more precise, a plumb MOTOR BRACKET is essential in a motorized installation. This is a step that is often left out, and I think it is the cause for many cases of misalignment in motorized setups. Once you have the motor and dish installed, double check your motor BRACKET (and therefore, motor itself) to be sure it is absolutely plumb. If you do this, installing a motorized dish will be as easy as installing a fixed one.

 

[Othea]

plumb pole

No offense taken, Radar. I agree that a new installation should be plumb. I'm just not convinced that a new installation is the first thing that Willie needs to do at this point. I'm suggesting that he simply peak his signal on 95°W or 97°W and enjoy TV for a few days.
After that -- the sky's the limit!

 

[willie8605]

Okay, I just got the mast up and waiting for the quickrete to dry

The only pipe I could find around is 1/2" too big (it is 2 7/8" and the bracket on the dish fits 2 3/8"), but it was free so I took it and decided I could find an adapter and just have a short section of 2 3/8" at the top that the dish can mount to. I made the mast about 1.5 ft taller so that should help me as well. Can't wait for that quickrete to dry.....

 

[osu1991]

I believe with a little Cowboy ingenuity, you will be scanning the skies before the weekend is over!