NBA 2008-09 Season

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salsadancer7 said:
Again and I tell you, if he was THAT close to being as good....why didn't he finish in 2nd place? Why did KG finished 3rd... I mean his team had a MUCH better record than the Lakers...?

IF we were to use YOUR logic....
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You would understand that he's right. Sorry, Salsa. Wade is having a phenominal season, but the Heat are also-rans. Meanwhile Cleveland is sitting on top of the East. Yes, the record does matter. Wade will finish second, like LeBron did last season, for the same reasons.
 
salsadancer7 said:
I wouldn't do that.....Did you think Wade would score 41 against Cleveland or 39 against Detroit....two of the better defensive teams in the league?

They might hold him down to 22....
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With our 3 best players in street clothes. If we are healthy for the playoffs (if we make the playoffs), Miami wouldn't want any part of Detroit, and you know it.
 
HD MM said:
Question: Why can't you ever answer a direct question and instead have to turn it into another question?

Answer: Because the answer proves your argument FOR Wade this year is wrong!

Seriously, were you OJ Simpson's defense lawyer?
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The NBA MVP voting..and WHERE Lebron ended in the voting process answered the question for me.

IF he was THAT close to being as good as Kobe.....he sure as hell would not have ended IN 4th place!

You live under the bubble of all things are black and white....I do not....at least not everything.
 
Paul Wozniak said:
With our 3 best players in street clothes. If we are healthy for the playoffs (if we make the playoffs), Miami wouldn't want any part of Detroit, and you know it.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't want that either....neither would most of the NBA. The ONLY question would be...do they still have anything left in the tank...the ones that are filling in for the injured.
 
salsadancer7 said:
The NBA MVP voting..and WHERE Lebron ended in the voting process answered the question for me.

IF he was THAT close to being as good as Kobe.....he sure as hell would not have ended IN 4th place!

You live under the bubble of all things are black and white....I do not....at least not everything.
Click to expand...

THE THREE F*N PLAYERS THAT FINISHED AHEAD OF HIM IN THE MVP VOTING WERE ON A TEAM THAT HAD A BETTER WINNING PERCENTAGE THAN THE CAVALIERS!!!!!

Seriously, I can't figure out who's wrong more often on this site, YOU on your baseless arguments or Sabres and his empty predictions!
 
HD MM said:
THE THREE F*N PLAYERS THAT FINISHED AHEAD OF HIM IN THE MVP VOTING WERE ON A TEAM THAT HAD A BETTER WINNING PERCENTAGE THAN THE CAVALIERS!!!!!

Seriously, I can't figure out who's wrong more often on this site, YOU on your baseless arguments or Sabres and his empty predictions!
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I will user YOUR logic....KG....had a better record than Kobe's Lakers....WAY better....he finished 3rd...what is YOUR explination for that one?
 
salsadancer7 said:
I will user YOUR logic....KG....had a better record than Kobe's Lakers....WAY better....he finished 3rd...what is YOUR explination for that one?
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Ending another argument with a question? How does that dance step go... "Spin, shuffle, spin"??

Look the numbers up, they speak for themselves.

2007-2008 Stats on the MVP Finalists:

#1 Kobe: 28 ppg, 5.4 ast, 6.3 reb. Hollinger PER rating of 24.09, Team finished 1st place in Western Conference.

#2 CP3: 21 ppg, 11.6 ast, 4.0 reb. Hollinger PER rating of 28.39, Team finished 2nd place in Western Conference.

#3 KG: 18ppg, 3.4 ast, 9.2 reb. Hollinger PER rating of 25.42, Team finished 1st place in Eastern Conference.

#4 LeBron: 30 ppg, 7.2 ast, 7.9 reb. Hollinger PER rating of 29.15, Team finished 4th place in Eastern Conference.

This tells me that the best players will get a look based on numbers alone. However, the player won't be awarded an MVP unless you're on one of the top teams. If this was based on numbers alone, LeBron would've gotten the award 3 years in a row now.

Sorry D-Wade, you're currently in 5th place in the Eastern Conference. BTW, there is another player that's putting up better stats (it's close, I know) AND his team is better record wise too. Sounds like a no-brainer to me.

But I'm ok with that. You should be too.
 
HD MM said:
Ending another argument with a question? How does that dance step go... "Spin, shuffle, spin"??

Look the numbers up, they speak for themselves.

2007-2008 Stats on the MVP Finalists:

#1 Kobe: 28 ppg, 5.4 ast, 6.3 reb. Hollinger PER rating of 24.09, Team finished 1st place in Western Conference.

#2 CP3: 21 ppg, 11.6 ast, 4.0 reb. Hollinger PER rating of 28.39, Team finished 2nd place in Western Conference.

#3 KG: 18ppg, 3.4 ast, 9.2 reb. Hollinger PER rating of 25.42, Team finished 1st place in Eastern Conference.

#4 LeBron: 30 ppg, 7.2 ast, 7.9 reb. Hollinger PER rating of 29.15, Team finished 4th place in Eastern Conference.

This tells me that the best players will get a look based on numbers alone. However, the player won't be awarded an MVP unless you're on one of the top teams. If this was based on numbers alone, LeBron would've gotten the award 3 years in a row now.

Sorry D-Wade, you're currently in 5th place in the Eastern Conference. BTW, there is another player that's putting up better stats (it's close, I know) AND his team is better record wise too. Sounds like a no-brainer to me.

But I'm ok with that. You should be too.
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The seeing that the Celtics had THE best record AND won the NBA championship....why did he ended up being 3rd in the MVP voting....again, using YOUR logic.

And when Garnet won the MVP a few years back, the Pacers had the best record in the NBA, why didn't Jermaine O'Neal win it? AGAIN....using YOUR logic.....
 
salsadancer7 said:
The seeing that the Celtics had THE best record AND won the NBA championship....why did he ended up being 3rd in the MVP voting....again, using YOUR logic.

And when Garnet won the MVP a few years back, the Pacers had the best record in the NBA, why didn't Jermaine O'Neal win it? AGAIN....using YOUR logic.....
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I never said it went to the best player on the best team. There's an award for that. It's called the NBA Finals MVP, recently renamed The Bill Russel Award.
 
HD MM said:
I never said it went to the best player on the best team. There's an award for that. It's called the NBA Finals MVP, recently renamed The Bill Russel Award.
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Wait a minute sparky... You said it should go to the player with the better record. IF that were the case...LAST YEAR, Garnet should NOT have finished 3rd AND the year Garnet DID win it, Jermaine O'Neal had a better record than Garnetts' T-Wolves...and he finished 3rd ALSO....

...using YOUR logic....explain this please....
 
salsadancer7 said:
Wait a minute sparky... You said it should go to the player with the better record. IF that were the case...LAST YEAR, Garnet should NOT have finished 3rd AND the year Garnet DID win it, Jermaine O'Neal had a better record than Garnetts' T-Wolves...and he finished 3rd ALSO....

...using YOUR logic....explain this please....
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Like I said.... If you got the numbers, you'll be a part of the discussion. If you're team has a good record, you'll have a better chance. Both are part of the equation in determining the winner.

Why was KG 3rd? I dunno, probably because Kobe was better that year! Check the stats, I already posted them.
 
Advanced statistics show why LeBron James should be the MVP

The MVP race might seem like a tight battle. But in addition to [ame]http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics[/ame], other advanced metrics come to the same conclusion: LeBron James should win the award, and it's not even close.

Start with Roland Rating, a statistic developed by Roland Beech of 82games.com. The Roland Rating takes two factors into account: (1) how a player's stats compare with those of the opposing player he faces at his position whenever he's on the court and (2) a comparison of the team's plus/minus when the player is on the court versus when he's on the bench. These two stats are then combined into a single number.

For example, a player who puts up similar numbers to his counterpart, and whose team does roughly the same with him as without him, would have a Roland Rating near 0. Higher numbers indicate more productivity, while lower (possibly negative) numbers indicate less productivity.

HIGHEST ROLAND RATINGS

LeBron James is light-years ahead of the competition, nearly doubling Kobe Bryant's score. (Minimum: 35 percent of team minutes played.)

Player/ Roland Rating:

LeBron James +24.3
Chris Paul +19.4
Dwyane Wade +19.1
Dwight Howard +12.8
Kobe Bryant +12.7

If that's not enough evidence, "Win Shares" provide another argument in LeBron's favor. Borrowing a concept developed by Bill James for baseball, Basketball Reference has developed a way to calculate, roughly, the number of wins a player should be credited with based on his statistical performance. These win shares take into account both offensive and defensive contributions, and they can be negative (for a player "taking away" wins from his team). Adding up the total win shares for all players on a given team produces a number close to the team's overall win total.

MOST WIN SHARES

Basketball Reference's advanced stat once again shows that LeBron is lapping the field in the MVP race.

Player/ Win Shares:

LeBron James 17.0
Chris Paul 14.0
Dwyane Wade 12.4
Dwight Howard 12.1
Pau Gasol 12.1
Kobe Bryant 11.0

LeBron's 17.0 win shares are already a career high, and he is on pace to finish with 19.86, which would be the third-highest single-season total since 1973-74, behind only Michael Jordan's 1987-88 and 1995-96 MVP seasons. If that's not enough to convince you that LeBron is performing on a different level from everyone else in the NBA this season, nothing will.
 
HD MM said:
The MVP race might seem like a tight battle. But in addition to John Hollinger's PER work, other advanced metrics come to the same conclusion: LeBron James should win the award, and it's not even close.

Start with Roland Rating, a statistic developed by Roland Beech of 82games.com. The Roland Rating takes two factors into account: (1) how a player's stats compare with those of the opposing player he faces at his position whenever he's on the court and (2) a comparison of the team's plus/minus when the player is on the court versus when he's on the bench. These two stats are then combined into a single number.

For example, a player who puts up similar numbers to his counterpart, and whose team does roughly the same with him as without him, would have a Roland Rating near 0. Higher numbers indicate more productivity, while lower (possibly negative) numbers indicate less productivity.

HIGHEST ROLAND RATINGS

LeBron James is light-years ahead of the competition, nearly doubling Kobe Bryant's score. (Minimum: 35 percent of team minutes played.)

Player/ Roland Rating:

LeBron James +24.3
Chris Paul +19.4
Dwyane Wade +19.1
Dwight Howard +12.8
Kobe Bryant +12.7

If that's not enough evidence, "Win Shares" provide another argument in LeBron's favor. Borrowing a concept developed by Bill James for baseball, Basketball Reference has developed a way to calculate, roughly, the number of wins a player should be credited with based on his statistical performance. These win shares take into account both offensive and defensive contributions, and they can be negative (for a player "taking away" wins from his team). Adding up the total win shares for all players on a given team produces a number close to the team's overall win total.

MOST WIN SHARES

Basketball Reference's advanced stat once again shows that LeBron is lapping the field in the MVP race.

Player/ Win Shares:

LeBron James 17.0
Chris Paul 14.0
Dwyane Wade 12.4
Dwight Howard 12.1
Pau Gasol 12.1
Kobe Bryant 11.0

LeBron's 17.0 win shares are already a career high, and he is on pace to finish with 19.86, which would be the third-highest single-season total since 1973-74, behind only Michael Jordan's 1987-88 and 1995-96 MVP seasons. If that's not enough to convince you that LeBron is performing on a different level from everyone else in the NBA this season, nothing will.
Click to expand...

"LAPPING THE FIELD"??!!! I wouldn't call a 2 point edge and a 4 point edge "lapping the field"...LOL! ;) NEVER EVER said he is not the best player in the game right now....I just think and me and alot of others, think that Wade is MVP. Now, mentioning Jordan....is sort of not fair because in those seasons, other than the late 80s....Jordan was SO FAR and away the best player in the planet, it was not even close. I mean there are still people today that think Kobe is better than Lebron and some people even think Wade is better than both.....it's THAT close. Jordan didn't have that.
 
salsadancer7 said:
"LAPPING THE FIELD"??!!! I wouldn't call a 2 point edge and a 4 point edge "lapping the field"...LOL! ;) NEVER EVER said he is not the best player in the game right now....I just think and me and alot of others, think that Wade is MVP. Now, mentioning Jordan....is sort of not fair because in those seasons, other than the late 80s....Jordan was SO FAR and away the best player in the planet, it was not even close. I mean there are still people today that think Kobe is better than Lebron and some people even think Wade is better than both.....it's THAT close. Jordan didn't have that.
Click to expand...

I don't have the patience to go back and forth with you today. I spoke my piece and gave you plenty of reasons stating my case for LeBron. For the sake of Satellite Guys and this NBA thread, I'm thinking we should save the debate for another time.... :)
 
HEy everybody... it's NBA Wednesday!

Here's your daily schedule for March 25th.....

[ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=sas"]San Antonio Spurs News, Schedule, Players, Stats, Video - NBA - ESPN[/ame] at [ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=atl"]Atlanta Hawks News, Schedule, Players, Stats, Video - NBA - ESPN[/ame]

[ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=njn"]New Jersey Nets News, Schedule, Players, Stats, Video - NBA - ESPN[/ame] at [ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=cle"]Cleveland Cavaliers News, Schedule, Players, Stats, Video - NBA - ESPN[/ame]

[ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=mia"]Miami Heat News, Schedule, Players, Stats, Video - NBA - ESPN[/ame] at [ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=ind"]Indiana Pacers News, Schedule, Players, Stats, Video - NBA - ESPN[/ame]

[ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=min"]Minnesota Timberwolves News, Schedule, Players, Stats, Video - NBA - ESPN[/ame] at [ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=phi"]Philadelphia 76ers News, Schedule, Players, Stats, Video - NBA - ESPN[/ame]

[ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=cha"]Charlotte Bobcats News, Schedule, Players, Stats, Video - NBA - ESPN[/ame] at [ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=was"]Washington Wizards News, Schedule, Players, Stats, Video - NBA - ESPN[/ame]

[ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=mil"]Milwaukee Bucks News, Schedule, Players, Stats, Video - NBA - ESPN[/ame] at [ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=tor"]Toronto Raptors News, Schedule, Players, Stats, Video - NBA - ESPN[/ame]

[ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=lac"]Los Angeles Clippers News, Schedule, Players, Stats, Video - NBA - ESPN[/ame] at [ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=nyk"]New York Knicks News, Schedule, Players, Stats, Video - NBA - ESPN[/ame]

[ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=den"]Denver Nuggets News, Schedule, Players, Stats, Video - NBA - ESPN[/ame] at [ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=nor"]New Orleans Hornets News, Schedule, Players, Stats, Video - NBA - ESPN[/ame]

[ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=bos"]Boston Celtics News, Schedule, Players, Stats, Video - NBA - ESPN[/ame] at [ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=orl"]Orlando Magic News, Schedule, Players, Stats, Video - NBA - ESPN[/ame] (ESPN)

[ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=gsw"]Golden State Warriors News, Schedule, Players, Stats, Video - NBA - ESPN[/ame] at [ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=dal"]Dallas Mavericks News, Schedule, Players, Stats, Video - NBA - ESPN[/ame]

[ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=uth"]Utah Jazz News, Schedule, Players, Stats, Video - NBA - ESPN[/ame] at [ame="http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/clubhouse?team=pho"]Phoenix Suns News, Schedule, Players, Stats, Video - NBA - ESPN[/ame] (ESPN)
 
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