twc in my area replaced the msg and msg+ chanel spots with nba tv and nhl network. dish hasn't replaced it with any programing what so ever.
msg and msg+ wil they give in
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May very well be the case, and I don't pretend to know the future, but past history tells me if Direct is doing that for those areas, it won't be too far behind to increase by these fees other DMA's. Much like the Government, you can't let them start a new fee because it's low or only affects some. Very soon it will be high and affect everyone.
You must mean any sports programming because Dish has added several HD and SD channels since dropping them. Even at that, though it may depend on the package they did indeed add MLB, CBSSN...... And again, going to everything I noted in my post how do you now you didn't receive something in place of it? Like free movies etc.... That you may or may not like what you got is a different thing, but to say we got nothing isn't really correct I don't think. Not to mention (but I guess I am lol) no price increase.
There would be alot more pressure on TWC and MSG to make a deal if the Sabres weren't in 14th place in the East and not playing like crap. Last night, they were ahead 2-0 and lost the game to Philly 7-2. Why would I want to make a switch now to watch a team going nowhere????
Does it seem odd that NY is the only sports market that DISH can't seem to work out some kind of a deal with any of the RSNs? DISH has had RSN outages all over the country, although I don't recall the Boston RSNs ever being out, but to be fair I would almost never watch them (unless Sawx were playing the Mets), but none permanent like NY that I'm aware of. Is it possible that DISH is trying to keep the NY customers paying the same rates as the rest of the country, while the NY RSNs are demanding premium prices that none of the rest of the country demand? I understand that NY Yankees being the best team money can buy needs to bring a lot of revenue in from YES, but Mets, Rangers, NIcks and Sabres are far from best (Rangers good this year I'll give you that). I guess it is just a NY thing. Reminds me of my wife's cousin who was an over the road trucker delivering to NY Port area and got out of the business because he couldn't afford the required "tipping" at certain stops to deliver his goods. He said no where else he delivered was like that. Maybe its just a NY thing and DISH doesn't know how to do business in NY. At least for me with no NY RSNs on DISH I am no longer tempted to "move" 1 mile to my west.
BTW in the interview Franscesa had with MSG, Baer stated that TWC wasn't valueing thier program properly and cited a recent high dollar deal TWC made with Lakers as a comparable. Nicks comparable to Lakers? Come on!!!! I also heard on WFAN one person said the fight was also over package placement, wanting MSG to be in a lower package, but kno one seems to be sure what the real hold up is other than $. I could be certain the fight with DISH is mostly over dollars, but I could be wrong.
BTW in the interview Franscesa had with MSG, Baer stated that TWC wasn't valueing thier program properly and cited a recent high dollar deal TWC made with Lakers as a comparable. Nicks comparable to Lakers? Come on!!!! I also heard on WFAN one person said the fight was also over package placement, wanting MSG to be in a lower package, but kno one seems to be sure what the real hold up is other than $. I could be certain the fight with DISH is mostly over dollars, but I could be wrong.
I'm not going to defend Dish because I do think they should be carrying everyone's RSNs if they carry the area's NHL, NBA, or MLB teams. There are a couple problems with NY though.
First, I might be wrong about this but I believe I remember hearing that the NY RSNs are the most expensive RSNs. Second, people in NY get more RSNs than other areas. I know this is partly due to the fact that they have so many professional teams but in Michigan we get 1 RSN that covers the Tigers, Redwings, and Pistons and FSN Detroit is probably cheaper than each one of the NY RSNs.
The model Dish used to take and Directv still takes is to provide everyone their RSNs for the same price no matter how many they get or how much they cost. I know the non-sports fans will disagree with me but I think they should have started charging slightly different rates for different states depending on RSNs instead of just pulling them. I'm not talking about huge differences here, just a dollar or two to make up some of the difference. I think Directv might be on to something with the new fee for people getting NY RSNs plus another RSN like those CT people.
First, I might be wrong about this but I believe I remember hearing that the NY RSNs are the most expensive RSNs. Second, people in NY get more RSNs than other areas. I know this is partly due to the fact that they have so many professional teams but in Michigan we get 1 RSN that covers the Tigers, Redwings, and Pistons and FSN Detroit is probably cheaper than each one of the NY RSNs.
The model Dish used to take and Directv still takes is to provide everyone their RSNs for the same price no matter how many they get or how much they cost. I know the non-sports fans will disagree with me but I think they should have started charging slightly different rates for different states depending on RSNs instead of just pulling them. I'm not talking about huge differences here, just a dollar or two to make up some of the difference. I think Directv might be on to something with the new fee for people getting NY RSNs plus another RSN like those CT people.
Gee, there's a novel concept...if you want to be placed in a lower tier, offer to charge less money for the privilege!
Regarding why the NY marketplace might be different (in terms of higher pricing):
Yankees = Yes - It is their network and they think they are the best franchise in any sport and should command top dollar.
Mets = SNY - Deep financial troubles, some as a result of the Bernie Madoff mess.
Every other team left = MSG, MSG+ - Owned by Cablevision. 'Nuff said.
Yankees = Yes - It is their network and they think they are the best franchise in any sport and should command top dollar.
Mets = SNY - Deep financial troubles, some as a result of the Bernie Madoff mess.
Every other team left = MSG, MSG+ - Owned by Cablevision. 'Nuff said.
The NY RSN's in particular, but very likely other DMA's soon (Including LA) by their demands are leaving three choices for Dish and Direct. Since they will not consent to being in a separate RSN package, or allow packages with or without them, the choices are;
1. Pay what the RSN's are exhorting - uh I mean asking and make that DMA pay more.
2. Pay what they are asking, and pass on the cost to everyone who subscribes to Dish or Direct even if they are not even able to watch the RSN.
3. Not carry the RSN.
Direct INMO chose option 2, and has overall higher package prices than Dish, and overall cost more than Dish very likely at least partially as a result.
Dish obviously chose option 3. As of right now, with no rate increase by Dish, compare and see just how much more Direct is, and how many very inexpensive packges Dish has and how many Direct has. By the way not just because Dish does not carry RSN's from NY, but their long policy of not falling for the threat of not being able to carry the channel in what seems like any negotiation. I also don't think the NFL package at the hefty cost to Direct is keeping package prices down either, and yes even though I know people pay for that package. I'm not convinced some of the cost is not passed on.
BUT, now Direct is choosing to start option #1 because they realize they can't keep doing option 2.
All you need to know is the RSN's who apparently feel they are worth so much, will not consent to being separated from the regular programming packages so people do not have to pay for them if they do not want to. (Not counting the Welcome type packages) It was not invisioned early on that they would escalate in price by so much than most other channels, so the business structure can no longer work with them in the regular packages without raising cost that is not in proportion to other programming.
1. Pay what the RSN's are exhorting - uh I mean asking and make that DMA pay more.
2. Pay what they are asking, and pass on the cost to everyone who subscribes to Dish or Direct even if they are not even able to watch the RSN.
3. Not carry the RSN.
Direct INMO chose option 2, and has overall higher package prices than Dish, and overall cost more than Dish very likely at least partially as a result.
Dish obviously chose option 3. As of right now, with no rate increase by Dish, compare and see just how much more Direct is, and how many very inexpensive packges Dish has and how many Direct has. By the way not just because Dish does not carry RSN's from NY, but their long policy of not falling for the threat of not being able to carry the channel in what seems like any negotiation. I also don't think the NFL package at the hefty cost to Direct is keeping package prices down either, and yes even though I know people pay for that package. I'm not convinced some of the cost is not passed on.
BUT, now Direct is choosing to start option #1 because they realize they can't keep doing option 2.
All you need to know is the RSN's who apparently feel they are worth so much, will not consent to being separated from the regular programming packages so people do not have to pay for them if they do not want to. (Not counting the Welcome type packages) It was not invisioned early on that they would escalate in price by so much than most other channels, so the business structure can no longer work with them in the regular packages without raising cost that is not in proportion to other programming.
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david_jr said:Does it seem odd that NY is the only sports market that DISH can't seem to work out some kind of a deal with any of the RSNs? DISH has had RSN outages all over the country, although I don't recall the Boston RSNs ever being out, but to be fair I would almost never watch them (unless Sawx were playing the Mets), but none permanent like NY that I'm aware of. Is it possible that DISH is trying to keep the NY customers paying the same rates as the rest of the country, while the NY RSNs are demanding premium prices that none of the rest of the country demand? I understand that NY Yankees being the best team money can buy needs to bring a lot of revenue in from YES, but Mets, Rangers, NIcks and Sabres are far from best (Rangers good this year I'll give you that). I guess it is just a NY thing. Reminds me of my wife's cousin who was an over the road trucker delivering to NY Port area and got out of the business because he couldn't afford the required "tipping" at certain stops to deliver his goods. He said no where else he delivered was like that. Maybe its just a NY thing and DISH doesn't know how to do business in NY. At least for me with no NY RSNs on DISH I am no longer tempted to "move" 1 mile to my west.
BTW in the interview Franscesa had with MSG, Baer stated that TWC wasn't valueing thier program properly and cited a recent high dollar deal TWC made with Lakers as a comparable. Nicks comparable to Lakers? Come on!!!! I also heard on WFAN one person said the fight was also over package placement, wanting MSG to be in a lower package, but kno one seems to be sure what the real hold up is other than $. I could be certain the fight with DISH is mostly over dollars, but I could be wrong.
it also involvs fuse music channel you can't drop fuse and keep msg
Well, I agree with most of your points but I do think they can get away with slightly different rates in different states. Comcast and AT&T arent exactly national carriers I guess but they are offered in many different cities throughout the country. I believe their prices have always been slightly different depending on where you live. Those are just examples but you could probably apply it to most cable providers.
Another thing, the Dish price difference is true if you have one standard receiver or one DVR. We tend to rotate between Charter, Dish and Directv every 3 or 4 years to take advantage of new promos and equipment. We were switching from Charter back to satellite last winter so I did some comparison shopping between Dish and Directv. For 3 HDTVs and 1 SDTV with DVR capabilities wanted on 2 of the HDTVs and the SDTV we found similar packages with similar equipment to be pretty close between the two. Dish has lower programing prices but their equipment fees can bring the prices up quickly for multiple tvs.
Edit: We chose Dish because it seemed like a better fit for what we wanted. At the time I didn't realize full time HDRSNs still weren't available on Dish because the website just says they carry the RSNs in HD with no mention of them being part time. If I knew this it would have made the decision a little harder but I'm still pretty happy with Dish so far.
Apparently, a deal has been struck. Details to come but Gov. Cuomo is making the announcement.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/18/sports/time-warner-cable-and-garden-resolve-dispute.html?_r=1&hp
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/18/sports/time-warner-cable-and-garden-resolve-dispute.html?_r=1&hp
Great, now I can watch Montreal blow the Sabres out tonight in HD, rather than going to sleazy overseas websites to see them lose!!
The hope would be that it could.....could....serve as a framework for a deal with DISH. But this is the Dolans we're talking about so I doubt it.
Something tells me cable bills will be increasing again, although maybe not as much as could have been the case.
david_jr said:Does it seem odd that NY is the only sports market that DISH can't seem to work out some kind of a deal with any of the RSNs? DISH has had RSN outages all over the country, although I don't recall the Boston RSNs ever being out, but to be fair I would almost never watch them (unless Sawx were playing the Mets), but none permanent like NY that I'm aware of. Is it possible that DISH is trying to keep the NY customers paying the same rates as the rest of the country, while the NY RSNs are demanding premium prices that none of the rest of the country demand? I understand that NY Yankees being the best team money can buy needs to bring a lot of revenue in from YES, but Mets, Rangers, NIcks and Sabres are far from best (Rangers good this year I'll give you that). I guess it is just a NY thing. Reminds me of my wife's cousin who was an over the road trucker delivering to NY Port area and got out of the business because he couldn't afford the required "tipping" at certain stops to deliver his goods. He said no where else he delivered was like that. Maybe its just a NY thing and DISH doesn't know how to do business in NY. At least for me with no NY RSNs on DISH I am no longer tempted to "move" 1 mile to my west.
BTW in the interview Franscesa had with MSG, Baer stated that TWC wasn't valueing thier program properly and cited a recent high dollar deal TWC made with Lakers as a comparable. Nicks comparable to Lakers? Come on!!!! I also heard on WFAN one person said the fight was also over package placement, wanting MSG to be in a lower package, but kno one seems to be sure what the real hold up is other than $. I could be certain the fight with DISH is mostly over dollars, but I could be wrong.
Boston hasn't, along with I think Chicago, anyway we only got spared because Comcast bought our FSN a few years prior to the Dish/FOX blackout
it stinks how when this happend to cable the governent jumps on it but when it happens to satelite we get screwed
