Monday August 14th Technical Chat

[long_time_DNC]

Questions on 129 dropouts and pixalation:
A: 129 in the N.W. is not as strong, we are working on a special dish solution using a 24" dish, contact your local retailer if you are having problems. We are going to try to boost the power Wed to help on the 129 NW transponders.

Am I ever looking forward to this! By Wed, did they mean 08/16? If so, I will definitely be checking the 129 channels tomorrow and will report back my findings here. I'll be looking at the signal strength on the TPs as well. A 24" dish would be helpful too.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Those calls are screened out, I was amazed we got 2 mentions last night. Normally I think they have Norm the Janitor call in from the backroom and ask about Credit Card auto pay, but last night they did not do that (which made for a good show)

 

[BobMurdoch]

Is it just me, or do the producers of the Tech Chat seem to not fear intelligent users as much as the Chuckie Chat?

Most of the guys who get through to Charlie sound like they just got service yesterday, or ask questions my 12 year old could answer off the top of his head...

I'm glad we got them to admit the 622 HDMI out problem..... Mine died a few months ago, I switched to component, and am working down my backlog before I call to swap it out in the next few weeks before the fall season starts....

 

[Tom Bombadil]

Regarding the HDMI connector and breakage, how many people have "heavy" HDMI cables and have their 622 mounted such that the cable hangs down to the floor, for instance ?? The weight of that cable is being held by the connector in the 622 in that case... If it cracks or snaps, one shouldn't be surprised.

However, do E*'s engineers know this before even designing the 622? Of course they do. And they also know that if their design creates hardware problems, that E* will end up eating a bundle of money, while annoying thousands of customers, remedying the problem.

This is where the engineers/designers have to have their brains engaged and not try to skimp on spending another 10 to 20 cents on the assembly line.

 

[cebbigh]

Am I ever looking forward to this! By Wed, did they mean 08/16? If so, I will definitely be checking the 129 channels tomorrow and will report back my findings here. I'll be looking at the signal strength on the TPs as well. A 24" dish would be helpful too.

I about fell out of my chair when they said this. Happen to have an off day tomorrow and expect to be tuned to POINT DISH for a good portion of it watching where the numbers bottom out. Now that's compelling stuff to watch! Wish they had been a little more specific about the 24" dish. But didn't it sound like they were talking about a two dish solution with one 500 dish pointed at 110/119 and a seperate unamed 24" dish pointed at 129?

 

[Hall]

What can E* engineers do ?? The HDMI connector is an industry standard and they have to conform to it. Others have mentioned breaking the input on other devices, so it's not just E* being cheap.

If E* created a proprietary HDMI input, customers would require a proprietary plug/cable. Who wants that ?? There's a simple workaround and best of all, it can cost next to nothing !

 

[dfergie]

dfergie - great job on the recap! I missed a few things last evening that I picked up here. (Sorry I didn't record it, but my HDD is close to full so I'm being judicious about my choices!)


Re: the HDMI output and connector issue - It's exactly what I have been saying for the past 2 months in these threads:

1) There are multiple root causes to the "no HDMI output" issue.

2) E* described 2 of them that they have apparently identified. The "incompatability" issue might be completely eliminated with SW tweaks.

3) They related the HDMI connector issue exactly as I have described it. The SMT female socket they chose in their rendition is "underengineered" (their word, IIRC). It's easy to see how any external force on that socket is translated to flexing of the tiny, fragile 1mm pitch (?) connections on the board and inevitably one or more will fracture with repeated force. Although the HDMI connector design might be an "industry-wide problem", I believe there are more robust designs for the socket that would not have these problems, or less so. Also - there are possible workarounds like foxbat identified and provided links to. Will E* improve their design? Will they offer retrofits to a captured plug design or at least upgrade to a superior design when a 622 is returned for repair? How much of the costs of mitigating the HDMI connector problem should E* assume? I see the information last evening as a green light for anyone with an HDMI output problem to expect E* to resolve the problem on their nickel! Take advantage of that if you're having a problem, now or in the future...!

4) I still contend that there are other root causes of the HDMI problem, like possibly the excessive operating temps. of the Broadcom chips. Will E* ever confirm and/or admit to those issues? Time will tell...

It's great to watch a program like that and think "deja vu" through significant parts of it, largely due to my afilliation with SatelliteGuys.US...!

BRgds all...!

Thanks , Looks like they have been reading the HDMI thread for sure...

 

[bhelms]

...This is where the engineers/designers have to have their brains engaged and not try to skimp on spending another 10 to 20 cents on the assembly line.

I'm sure someone missed a decimal point or something in the risk analysis, if they ever did one. How many subs do they have - 12-13 million, and how many of those will ever "own" the 622, maybe a million? So the 20-cent savings means a $200 cost reduction over the life of the 622's production. I venture E* has already spent that amount several times over in real losses due to wasted tech/engineering time, swap-outs, and lost revenue from disgruntled customers who either switched service or didn't ever order it, and probably more than that intangibles. Some days you win, some days you lose, and some days you lose a bunch...!

 

[Airblair]

I still think they are working to offer a special Dish branded enclosure for external storage support. This makes sense so it can have special firmware to authenticate with the receiver/account it's tied in with and you couldn't just copy files over and directshow dump to a decrypted mpeg2 TS file (ala current bogus TTG protection) It also makes sense so they can offer a drive that's known to work (there are a lot of bogus enclosure mfgs out there) and it will give them a way to sell hard drives!

I wish you were wrong, but I'm sure you're right. Of course Dish is going to make you buy their branded USB drive, and of course it's going to cost more than an equivalent generic drive.

The only possible upside to this is that this could mean that the content on the USB drives could be shared across 622s at the same house via this Powerline technology they've been talking up. But that is pure conjecture.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

Just curious......since these are "Tech Guys" why do they never get asked about Bandwidth issues and MPEG4 flags and picture quality that seem to be a concern to a lot of people on this forum. Are people just screened out or does no one ask? Whoever said these guys at Dish should be politicians are right because they can sure say a lot without saying a thing.

I don't know if my question was screened or not, but the reality was when they went live to me, I could have asked any question I wanted - and since there was virtually no delay, it would have been hard for them to cut it off.

I asked the Food HD question, but in retrospect wish I had asked them why they couldn't either 1) put HD movies in VOD on the 622; or 2) enable the user to disable VOD entirely and free up more space for the DVR.

Mike

 

[mpeltz]

Questions on 129 dropouts and pixalation:
A: 129 in the N.W. is not as strong, we are working on a special dish solution using a 24" dish, contact your local retailer if you are having problems. We are going to try to boost the power Wed to help on the 129 NW transponders.

I'm wondering how I should interpret this answer. Sounds like they are trying to address the problems with 129 in the North West, but what about everyone else. Will they offer the 24" dish to locations other than NW? Will they boost power for transponders other than NW?

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

If they boost the power to the NW they boost the power to all.

 

[rockymtnhigh]

Those calls are screened out, I was amazed we got 2 mentions last night. Normally I think they have Norm the Janitor call in from the backroom and ask about Credit Card auto pay, but last night they did not do that (which made for a good show)

So they key is to tell them you are going to ask a question that you think they will like answering, then when you go live, just ask whatever you want.

I am not sure how much screenign they are doing though; as I told them I wanted to ask about external usb, and then the guy talked about it before taking questions, so I said, ok, I have free reign to ask what I want.

I also wonder how many people are watching this, and how many are actually calling in.

 

[BobaBird]

Great job dfergie! I've got my summary up now on the EKB http://ekb.dbstalk.com/Tech0608.htm with a link back here. Now I gotta check and make sure it's pointing to the surviving thread!

 

[digiblur]

Does anybody have anything more recent than this information on Echo5?

http://www.sat-index.com/failures/index.html?http://www.sat-index.com/failures/echo5.html

 

[dfergie]

No worries.


BTW, you got my name wrong about the Food HD question (Mike, not Joe)

Sorry about that Chief fixed...

 

[dude2]

Wow!

E* admits a hardware problem with the 622 HDMI connector!

Yeh, they said the connection was not built strong enough and is breaking in the insert hole. How many of you have broken your hdmi cable and then complained on this web site. I bet none of you.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

I dont think anyone has broke their HDMI cable.

The problem is with the connector itself ont he motherboard.

 

[long_time_DNC]

I about fell out of my chair when they said this. Happen to have an off day tomorrow and expect to be tuned to POINT DISH for a good portion of it watching where the numbers bottom out. Now that's compelling stuff to watch! Wish they had been a little more specific about the 24" dish. But didn't it sound like they were talking about a two dish solution with one 500 dish pointed at 110/119 and a seperate unamed 24" dish pointed at 129?

Dunno about a two dish solution...I missed the chat and am going to try to catch a rebroadcast. I'm on vacation, so I'll be sitting here checking the point dish screen frequently as well.

Two weeks off and out of the office. I'm loving every minute of it!

 

[mpeltz]

If they boost the power to the NW they boost the power to all.

So you're saying that the plan is to boost power to ALL transponders, including #16 which contain the Atlanta HD Locals.