Million Dollar Question: How is HD-DVD a better format for the end user?

[JoeSp]

Lower price, finalized specs and every player will play every disc and all of its features. Really an ignorant question JoeSp

Not a ignorant question but one that deserves a better answer. You provided one so the question was important.

We tend to say my format is better then yours or my format is supperior to yours. Wnen in fact, when viewing the movie they are pretty much the same. BD's extra space and extra bandwith might just provide more enhanced features like a lossless track where one on HD-DVD could not of been added. But, as Diogen likes to say, unless you have the equipment and the ear you probably would not be able to tell the differance.

My purpose of starting this post was to get HD-DVD fans to speak positively of their favorite format. And to allow BD fans to state their reasons in a posistive way. There just seems to be too much FUD and name calling and I would like to read the real reasons why someone says their format is supperior or best for them. When I read that someone will go back to DVD and not support the 'winner' when there is one I think that the indivdual is not really that intersted in HDM on disc nor have they really supported their chosen format. If you are not buy discs in that format how can you say you are a staunch supporter. In much the same vein, how can you own both formats and claim to be a supporter of one and not the other? The first one is not a true supporter of HDM on disc while the second one is clearly of supporter of owned HDM on disc.

In the end I think what we all want is a unified HDM disc format - what should of happend in the first place. Maybe we are on that path to one now in 2009.

 

[allargon]

In the end I think what we all want is a unified HDM disc format - what should of happend in the first place. Maybe we are on that path to one now in 2009.

When profile 2.0 standalones are at $200, then we can talk about a unified format.

 

[JoeSp]

When profile 2.0 standalones are at $200, then we can talk about a unified format.

We will probably or pretty darn close (under $300) this XMAS 08. Surely with 2.0 release due in stores by March there will be some other BD players on the market besides the PS3 and Panasonic who have 2.0 players and a few of them should be under $300 by then. Especially with Sony just announcing that they have reduced blue lasers the size by over 50% and the cost by more we should start seeing that savings on future players for the CE manufacturers.

 

[teachsac]

We will probably or pretty darn close (under $300) this XMAS 09. Surely with 2.0 release due in stores by March there will be some other BD players on the market besides the PS3 and Panasonic who have 2.0 players and a few of them should be under $300 by then. Especially with Sony just announcing that they have reduced blue lasers the size by over 50% and the cost by more we should start seeing that savings on future players for the CE manufacturers.

Christmas 09 would be two years from now. $300 possibly. A full featured 2.0 player for $200, I don't think so. Only the cheapo players that won't have the full feature set of the Panasonic or Denon might reach that mark.

S~

 

[rockymtnhigh]

Christmas 09 would be two years from now. $300 possibly. A full featured 2.0 player for $200, I don't think so. Only the cheapo players that won't have the full feature set of the Panasonic or Denon might reach that mark.

S~

If HD media really wants to be more than a niche, there needs to be a full-featured price-point of $200 or less. Or else, it will never be anything except a small, really small, part of the market.

 

[teachsac]

If HD media really wants to be more than a niche, there needs to be a full-featured price-point of $200 or less. Or else, it will never be anything except a small, really small, part of the market.

I agree, but I don't see it hitting that price point this year, especially for full featured players from major manufacturers. Panasonic's BD50 is rumored to be $599. Denon is 2K and not 2.0. Philips is $350 but audio support is questionable right now as with many of the other new players.

S~

 

[JoeSp]

Would it not be possible for a 2.0 compliant player that could send the HD audio out in bitstream instead of doing the decoding in the player and that player easily be under $300? I am guessing those HD audio decoders are what is really driving up the cost of the players.

In addition Sony's new announcement on much lower cost, smaller blue lasers should also help get the price down.

 

[teachsac]

Would it not be possible for a 2.0 compliant player that could send the HD audio out in bitstream instead of doing the decoding in the player and that player easily be under $300? I am guessing those HD audio decoders are what is really driving up the cost of the players.

In addition Sony's new announcement on much lower cost, smaller blue lasers should also help get the price down.

The majority of players announced at CES were 1.1 Pansonic surprised everyone with their 2.0 player, although there were rumors floating around that they had a higher end player coming out.

Bitstreaming out is not always the best answer on several fronts. Most people don't have receivers and aren't willing to purchase a new one that will decode the HD audio formats. Especially those of us that have high end separates (not my Integra, my Lexicon). Most people have receivers like Denons, Yamahas, Pioneers, etc. that Support HDMI audio over 1.1 or 1.2 that they've only had for a year or two. Good money spent for short usage.

Second comes with advanced features available w BD-J or HDi. With a bitstream only option and no internal decoders, the HD audio is downsampled and the secondary audio mixed in prior to sending it out. With internal decoding, the secondary audio can be mixed in with the lossless track.

S~

 

[ozzy1028]

I keep reading HD-DVD supporters state that HD-DVD is a better format. My question is how. Lets try and see if we can keep this in perspective.

Here is what I want to know:

First: Picture Quality, Sound Quality for the movie. Tell me how HD-DVD is a better format then BD for viewing the movie only.

Second: Bonus Features available on the disc after you watch the movie -- as in does HD-DVD allow you more bonus features then BD? (Not how you get to them or view them, I address that in the next question)

Third: Menu -- does HD-DVD offer something you don't get with BD? How does this make watching a movie a better experiance during the viewing of the movie. How does this improve the viewing of Bonus features?

Finally Choice -- does HD-DVD offer you more choice then BD?

Here is what I do not care about:

Price to press a disc -- unless that savings is passed on to the consumer it does not matter. No consumer cares about how much it cost to make a movie or put it on a disc -- they only care about how much they have to pay.

Price of the player -- I don't know what is in your wallet and you don't know what is in mine. First time a salesman tries to guess what is in my wallet he has lost the sale. Anyway, all technology comes down in price the longer it is on the shelf. Chistmas numbers have proven that lower price does not always mean more sells.

Price of the media at a particular retailer either B&M or online -- everyone selling gets to set the price they want to sell at -- go to Walmart and it will be cheaper then BestBuy and sometimes cheaper then Amazon.com.

The trend here is I don't care about price because that obviously has not helped Toshiba and the HD-DVD group. I want to know when you are setting in front of your HD setup why you think HD-DVD is better then BD. And for the BD owners, try and answer these questions as though they are asked about BD.

lol, whoever has time to watch bonus features is a dope and a boner

 

[vurbano]

We will probably or pretty darn close (under $300) this XMAS 08. Surely with 2.0 release due in stores by March there will be some other BD players on the market besides the PS3 and Panasonic who have 2.0 players and a few of them should be under $300 by then. Especially with Sony just announcing that they have reduced blue lasers the size by over 50% and the cost by more we should start seeing that savings on future players for the CE manufacturers.

A Panny BD50 will be under 300 bucks by xmas???? ANd how much is it NOW?

 

[teachsac]

A Panny BD50 will be under 300 bucks by xmas???? ANd how much is it NOW?

Just Joe's wishful thinking. No MSRP set as of yet. Rumors are 599-699.

S~

 

[nmoulton]

The ability to make a hybrid HD DVD format which contains both DVD and HD DVD versions of the same movie on a single disc, that is playable in high def on an HD-DVD player, and playable in standard def on the DVD player you bought years ago but still have in your basement, bedroom etc.

 

[tnsprin]

The ability to make a hybrid HD DVD format which contains both DVD and HD DVD versions of the same movie on a single disc, that is playable in high def on an HD-DVD player, and playable in standard def on the DVD player you bought years ago but still have in your basement, bedroom etc.

Although no one decided to go ahead and manufacture one, a DVD/Blu-ray was developed. As was a Total HD (HD-DVD/Blu-Ray).

 

[diogen]

Although no one decided to go ahead and manufacture one, a DVD/Blu-ray was developed.

IIRC, JVC designed the BD combo. But those were times when yields on BD50 were well below 50% and glueing another DVD9 to it was dropping this number to single digits.
When BD50 yields are in the DVD ballpark (95%+), the glueing process has improved and there is still any interest in BD combos, it might be revisited. I doubt this will happen.

Diogen.

 

[vurbano]

Just Joe's wishful thinking. No MSRP set as of yet. Rumors are 599-699.

S~

I bet its more like a grand.

 

[allargon]

I bet its more like a grand.

No, fortunately HD DVD will still be around to drive competition. As a result we will still see Blu-Ray BOGO frees. So, it will likely be about $500 for the Panasonic BD50. As much of a cheap bastard I am, I don't think that's a horrible introductory price as long as it drops to under $300 before Christmas.

 

[JoeSp]

A Panny BD50 will be under 300 bucks by xmas???? ANd how much is it NOW?

I did not say that the Panny would be under $300 but their is a chance that Samsung, LG another CE manufacturer or maybe the new player from China might come in under $300 and be 2.0 or upgradeable to 2.0.

 

[ONUOsFan]

If HD media really wants to be more than a niche, there needs to be a full-featured price-point of $200 or less. Or else, it will never be anything except a small, really small, part of the market.

I disagree. I bet most people paid $150-$200 for their first DVD player, and if they're going to go out and spend probably 4-5 times as much on their new TV as they did on the last one, why would they not spend more on an HDM player? Not saying every person who has a DVD player would spend that much, but I think as people are investing more and more in HDTV's, the players won't be that much of a stretch.

 

[vurbano]

I did not say that the Panny would be under $300 but their is a chance that Samsung, LG another CE manufacturer or maybe the new player from China might come in under $300 and be 2.0 or upgradeable to 2.0.

There is a chance of winning Lotto too. What profile 2.0 standalone can I buy TODAY and how much is it?

 

[diogen]

If HD media really wants to be more than a niche, there needs to be a full-featured price-point of $200 or less.

And it looks like this is the main point in Toshiba's marketting strategy.
They want to "hammer" home the simple notion that $150 should be enough to get into hidef...

Diogen.