Math Sucks!

[HDRoberts]

I loved math... once I got a TI-89 calculator. Built in computer algebra system. Kept me from making stupid mistakes in arithmetic and algebra, while instead focusing on theory. I slowly got better in college with it: C's in Pre-calc and Calc I, B's in Calc II and Linear Algebra, and A's in Multivariable Calc and Diff EQ.

Thing got easier as I realized how it all connected. For instance, realizing fractions and division was really just the same as negative exponents.

And while I don't really use it much, understanding advanced math is essential for understanding the uses and limitations of the shortcut formulas the the math derived that we use to get around doing the math.

 

[HCI]

What is the point of learning this stuff?
In all the things I have ever done, building computers, carpentry, working on cars, etc. I've never needed anything beyond Junior High Math.

Do you think the Engineers who designed the computers or cars, or the architect who drew the plans for the house can get by with only junior high math?.

 

[TREE]

I'm happy being a simple man...I can skin a buck and run a trot-line

 

[Stargazer]

You can also do the most interesting things with math when you do something wrong:

Three people split a meal. When the bill comes it's $30. Each person pays $10 for their share. When the waiter gets to the cashier, the cashier tells the waiter that there is a special and the meal is only $25. and gives the waiter $5 singles to return to the diners. The Waiter decides that he cannot equally divide the $5 among the 3 diners so he gives each one of the 3 diners $1 and pockets the remaining $2.

So....
Each diner paid $10. They each got $1 in return. That means each diner paid $9. The waiter kept $2 as a tip. 3x9=27 + 2 = $29. What happened to the other dollar?

See ya
Tony

I saw this on a show on the Science Channel called Million 2 One

 

[navychop]

I'm happy being a simple man...I can skin a buck and run a trot-line

Well, I've run trot lines.

 

[Spatch]

You can also do the most interesting things with math when you do something wrong:

Three people split a meal. When the bill comes it's $30. Each person pays $10 for their share. When the waiter gets to the cashier, the cashier tells the waiter that there is a special and the meal is only $25. and gives the waiter $5 singles to return to the diners. The Waiter decides that he cannot equally divide the $5 among the 3 diners so he gives each one of the 3 diners $1 and pockets the remaining $2.

So....
Each diner paid $10. They each got $1 in return. That means each diner paid $9. The waiter kept $2 as a tip. 3x9=27 + 2 = $29. What happened to the other dollar?

See ya
Tony

It is a trick in the way you asked the question. In fact the men didn't pay $25 for the dinner they paid $27. The waiters $2 dollars and the restaurant $25. They were given $3 back to split amongst themselves. $9 x 3 = $27 plus the $3 in change returned equals $30

 

[harshness]

Algebra is pretty handy for a number of things including how much you ammo you can buy at the sporting goods store with a gift card (expecting that you're going to have to pay sales tax).

Here in Oregon, we don't need to know algebra because we don't have a sales tax.

In California they can't calculate sales tax because they try to avoid having students memorize the multiplication tables. Apparently they are trying to figure out a new way to screw up math education because having students learn chisanbop didn't get it done.


If you think middle school algebra is bad, you should try college algebra where they don't talk much about numbers and they make you prove things that you didn't have to in geometry (a classic example being proving that 0 exists).

 

[TREE]

Well, I've run trot lines.

Well...I just got a warning for posting this???

 

[rockymtnhigh]

Well...I just got a warning for posting this???

No, you didn't apparently read the warning. It was for the signature you had. about F'ng the prom queen.

 

[TheForce]

There are two skills necessary to get along in today's civilized world. Communications and math. If you are weak in either you will have trouble in life. If you are entering the technologies for a career math is extremely important but so is communications. No, you don't need to know how calculate the derivative in integral calculus to use a screwdriver to tighten down a hard drive in a computer but if you want to understand things like balancing your checkbook so you don't over draw your account, or understand what will cost you more, pay off an amortized loan with a 5% CD or continue to pay a 5% car loan for another 3 years, higher math skills comes in very handy.

The problem that many have, those with considerable intelligence is that they fell behind and never caught up early in life, early in school. Most likely it was the fault of poor parenting, not insisting the kids do home work or challenge themselves with academics. If the child is extremely bright, less effort by the parents will be required but if the child is average, as most of us are, parents need to work with the child to be sure the basics, math and communications, have a solid foundation at an early age. This can be a problem if the parents lack the skills. Parents then need to recognize the need for an educated tutor to fill that gap and stop the generational down-slide of education.
The worst thing you can do as an adult is attempt to blame natural ability or lack thereof, in one of these basics. Instead, make it a new goal in life to work on review of the fundamentals. If necessary, go back to a course in basic math where you really feel comfortable with the concepts and build confidence, then advance from there.

As an engineer I had to take advanced math but it did not come easy. However, after taking a semester off and reviewing a basic class in trig, I "got it!" It bothered me at the time because I had trig in HS but didn't learn it well enough to advance into calculus.

My son-in-law is soon to graduate with a degree in Construction management. He had to take 2 semesters calculus to qualify for a degree. I know he struggled. I gave him a couple of my old workbooks that gave him some different perspectives on how to solve the problems. The basics doesn't change over the years. He got through it and can at least relate to many of the more advanced concepts in the building industry he will need to understand.

 

[LonghornXP]

All very good points and for the most part much of what we learn in college over four years we will hardly ever use on a day to day basis except for the major for most. These courses are intended to open your mind and allow your brain to think in very different ways. If you never learned history your far more likely as a collective group to repeat the same mistakes past generations have made. You can only prevent what you have learned right.

Most companies require four years of college to make sure they are getting a qualified person on the job but also and just as important to get a well rounded person who has proven he/she could learn and succeed in many various subjects. This proves to the company you can learn and adapt as you see fit. People can have a talent for a specific trade and thus can learn the trade in college and get very good marks. The problem is that these people could very well have no real ability to succeed outside the world of their trade which greatly limits how well they can mature and adapt as a person.

In my case I never really struggled in anything expect for analytic geometry. This was the only course at Boston College I ever believed I could fail "and" never pass no matter how many times I retook the course. Lucky for me it all just clicked in the last month just in time for the final exam which counted as 85% of my grade. Now I fully understand why the final exam counted as 85% of our grades after talking with my fellow classmates after finals. Most of them said it all clicked within the last week or two before the exam. It was nice knowing I was at least ahead of the curve so to speak.

 

[snathanb]

Most companies require four years of college to make sure they are getting a qualified person on the job but also and just as important to get a well rounded person who has proven he/she could learn and succeed in many various subjects. This proves to the company you can learn and adapt as you see fit. People can have a talent for a specific trade and thus can learn the trade in college and get very good marks. The problem is that these people could very well have no real ability to succeed outside the world of their trade which greatly limits how well they can mature and adapt as a person.

You should have posted this in the "University of Phoenix" thread in the pub.

 

[TheForce]

LonghornXP-

Did it ever occur to you that possibly it was not the subject you had problems with but maybe it was the quality of the instruction, or the workload, task loading, you were under at the time and maybe were not able to dedicate adequate time for the material?

Personally, I found that those courses I had great trouble learning could be objectively pinned down to outside influences. eg. I wanted to learn German as my foreign language in HS. I had 4 weeks of introductory German in Jr HS along with a half dozen others during the year. Due to being a military brat, I was transferred to another state and the new HS took my transcripts and mistakenly put me into a second year German class. On day one, all they spoke in class was German and I was not permitted to explain in English to the teacher, who was also a disciplinarian gay man with a whip he cracked on the desk when you tried to say anything in English. So I puilled a clean F in the first grading period before the idiot guidance counselor listened to my mother who got me transferred to German 1. Now if that was a brilliant move, I know you are laughing at this by now with empathy. I was 6 weeks behind the students in German 1. And to add salt into the wound, I had the same teacher! By the 3rd grading period I managed to squeeze out a D but failed German for my Freshman year. So what did I take for next year, No German as I had to dump this Nazi gay freak of a teacher and selected Latin. While the guidance counselor was against this because I did so poorly in German, I managed to get straight A's in Latin and continued to take 3 years of it. The benefit was I also improved my English grades to straight A's as well. Believe it or not, I wanted to be a chemical engineer but could only squeeze B's and C's in math so the math was a struggle for me too. In retrospect, I have to say, math was a huge time consumer and a struggle to complete the workload, participate in sports and play trumpet in the band and the local symphony Orchestra. Back then I was a pretty good trumpet player.
Point being, when you are suffering a subject, don't blame yourself. Take an objective look at the time management of your life and prioritize what needs more of your time.

 

[snathanb]

LonghornXP-

Did it ever occur to you that possibly it was not the subject you had problems with but maybe it was the quality of the instruction, or the workload, task loading, you were under at the time and maybe were not able to dedicate adequate time for the material?

Maybe, maybe not. I've seen plenty of people over the years that absolutely excel at Math in every form, yet have difficulty with Geometry, from even the best of instructors.

 

[Paul Wozniak]

LonghornXP-

Did it ever occur to you that possibly it was not the subject you had problems with but maybe it was the quality of the instruction, or the workload, task loading, you were under at the time and maybe were not able to dedicate adequate time for the material?

Personally, I found that those courses I had great trouble learning could be objectively pinned down to outside influences. eg. I wanted to learn German as my foreign language in HS. I had 4 weeks of introductory German in Jr HS along with a half dozen others during the year. Due to being a military brat, I was transferred to another state and the new HS took my transcripts and mistakenly put me into a second year German class. On day one, all they spoke in class was German and I was not permitted to explain in English to the teacher, who was also a disciplinarian gay man with a whip he cracked on the desk when you tried to say anything in English. So I puilled a clean F in the first grading period before the idiot guidance counselor listened to my mother who got me transferred to German 1. Now if that was a brilliant move, I know you are laughing at this by now with empathy. I was 6 weeks behind the students in German 1. And to add salt into the wound, I had the same teacher! By the 3rd grading period I managed to squeeze out a D but failed German for my Freshman year. So what did I take for next year, No German as I had to dump this Nazi gay freak of a teacher and selected Latin. While the guidance counselor was against this because I did so poorly in German, I managed to get straight A's in Latin and continued to take 3 years of it. The benefit was I also improved my English grades to straight A's as well. Believe it or not, I wanted to be a chemical engineer but could only squeeze B's and C's in math so the math was a struggle for me too. In retrospect, I have to say, math was a huge time consumer and a struggle to complete the workload, participate in sports and play trumpet in the band and the local symphony Orchestra. Back then I was a pretty good trumpet player.
Point being, when you are suffering a subject, don't blame yourself. Take an objective look at the time management of your life and prioritize what needs more of your time.

My oldest son pulled an A in German class one semester, while getting a D in English in the same semester. Go figure. BTW, I loved mathematics, took every course offered while is in college. The Calc classes were my favorites, geometry the simplest.

 

[Inno]

Well, I've run trot lines.

I always thought he was saying "trap line" which does also make sense in the context of the song.

As far as why you need math or more to the point, who needs math.........and I can relate to the frustration but here goes.
- scientists
- engineers
- carpenters
- HVAC contractors
- plumbers (seriously)
- technicians
- technologists
- mechanics
- architects
- bankers/financial planners
Ok, that's a short list, feel free to add to it........I wish I'd been better at or more interested in math when I was still in school. When you have to take the time to pull up a conversion chart or do things "the long" way because you don't know the right mathematical shortcut that will get you to the right place it's frustrating, time consuming and often times wrong.
Math is truly the one thing that I can identify as being the difference between good and great! I don't know how else to put it........If I were better at math, I'm sure I'd be better at many things.