Mad Scientist Hooks up 5 Satellite Locations!!!!

larrystotler said:
Actually, there is only 768Mhz available per sat, and since E* only has 21 of 32 trans on the 119, that's only 504 Mhz(768 / 32 x 21). And 29 of 32 on the 110 it's 696(768 / 32 x29). Add that up, and you have 1200Mhz. Which is exactly how much you have between 950-2150Mhz. E* should have worked more towards a 1 cable solution by making a specific setup for the 110/119 and then using the DiSQeC v2.0 standard for more than 2 sats. At least it would have made my life easier..... :(
I see what you're saying - but if I were running the show, I would not design a technology that depended on existing limited transponder setups. For example, the D* SAT C craziness is stupid so far as I'm concerned.

BTW, AFAIK, DishPro switches DO use DiSeqC protocols.
 
larrystotler said:
... When I have some more time, I'll do some repeat runs since the SW42 isn't exactly the most reliable switch, & I will set up the 61.5/105/121 and see what happens with all 5, but I am not very optimistic......
First - thanks for adding to our knowledge base! :)

(deleted)

I didn't see that larry was going to setup 5 birds - it was a stupid idea anyway.
 
SimpleSimon said:
First - thanks for adding to our knowledge base! :)

(deleted)

I didn't see that larry was going to setup 5 birds - it was a stupid idea anyway.

Eh? I was actually just trying to see IF the receiver could actually see the 3rd switch more than anything. I did actually have the 105 setup a few weeks ago, but took it down since there isn't actually anything on it. The 3rd switch is where Mike had the trouble with on his DP setup, and I was curious to see how the 301 would handle the legacy switches. What I really wanted to try was an SW44 & SW64 tied together by an SW21, but I don't have the SW44 yet. Also, you would be kinda limited to the 2/3/4 outputs on them UNLESS you ran 2 lines in to the power inserters since the SW21 has to be in the line between the receiver and the inserters. I believe one of the problems is that the screen just doesn't have room to list 5 sats on the 301 since the legacy display shows the even/odds at this time, unlike the 721. Personally, I have no need for a 5 sat setup, but I know someone who wants to set it up with a legacy box, and I doubt that the 5 sats would show even with a DP Adapter and Mike's setup. The idea to try the SW42 was because it uses a different switching than the SW21, since you can't cascade 2 SW21s.

From what Mike was saying earlier, I believe that the 3rd switch won't be seen, and that only the first sat on the 3rd switch will show up like his testing showed, and like my testing alluded to.

IF E* keeps adding sats like they have, they will have to replace the older boxes just to see all the programming.
 
SimpleSimon said:
I see what you're saying - but if I were running the show, I would not design a technology that depended on existing limited transponder setups. For example, the D* SAT C craziness is stupid so far as I'm concerned.

BTW, AFAIK, DishPro switches DO use DiSeqC protocols.

Correct, but my suggestion was to use that setup for a 110/119 only install, which is actually probably 75-80% of all E* installs. While I agree about D*'s Sat C setup, when D* aquired the 119 & 110 when they bought P*, they should have offered to swap the 3 110 trans with 3 on E*'s 119. Would have been a better setup in the long run, and would have been easier to retune to the 110 from the 119 for most programming, and to add the dish 500. Then, D* would only have to have had a 2sat dish. D*'s idea works pretty good all things considering, but it's still a kludge. And, if they add the 72.5 in a similarway, they have 18 available slots to ghost it into the 119 line like the 110.

Like you pointed out before, there is only a finite amount of bandwith......
 
My idea was to split the 3 birds feeds across all the switch planes just to see what would happen - but if you're going to have at least 4 birds, then you've got 2 per switch which will be fine for the test.

One thing - why do the power inserters have to be between the SW21 and the receiver? I have my doubts whether the power will pass through the SW21.

I'm more optimistic than you about all 3 switches being seen - because they have unique command codes per: http://www.compendiumarcana.com/DBS/dbspage.aspx?content=logger
 
SimpleSimon said:
My idea was to split the 3 birds feeds across all the switch planes just to see what would happen - but if you're going to have at least 4 birds, then you've got 2 per switch which will be fine for the test.

One thing - why do the power inserters have to be between the SW21 and the receiver? I have my doubts whether the power will pass through the SW21.

I'm more optimistic than you about all 3 switches being seen - because they have unique command codes per: http://www.compendiumarcana.com/DBS/dbspage.aspx?content=logger

Actually, I said that the SW21 has to be in between the receivers and the inserters. That's why you would need both port 1 feeds inside, since the inserters shouldn't be outside, and the SW21s would be fried if they were between the inserters and the switches. That would only apply to the port 1s though.

As to actually seeing all 3 switches, it may be that the receivers just don't have the ability to see all 3, more than the different command codes. The receivers logic may have only been designed with a max of 2 switches in mind. Mike's results showed that. ALl I was trying to do was to see IF it would show 5 locations, and the 301 did not. I may try using the 721 for the 5 sat test since it has slots for all 5 birds. I just wish Mike had a legacy receiver & dp adapter that he could try to see whether a legacy can see all 5 with his DP setup.......
 
You're right - I misread your post about the inserter location. :o

You have the same doubts I do about the legacy receivers - or newer ones for that matter - and that is whether the box can deal with 3 legacy switches, even though the technology allows it. I'm not sure your first test was valid because it didn't have enough feeds. It probably is correct, I'm just not sure.
 
SimpleSimon said:
You're right - I misread your post about the inserter location. :o

You have the same doubts I do about the legacy receivers - or newer ones for that matter - and that is whether the box can deal with 3 legacy switches, even though the technology allows it. I'm not sure your first test was valid because it didn't have enough feeds. It probably is correct, I'm just not sure.

That's why I will probably go ahead and hook up all 5 with the SW44/SW64 cascade and see what happens. Technically, it SHOULD see the switch, but you know how that goes......
 
danielle_seiley said:
I was wondering Scott, could I use a dish 500 with a dp lnb for sats 110,119 instead of hooking up 2 seperate dishes up.


Yes the Dish 500 can see both 110/119 at the same time. Just look for the DP logo to be sure you have DP and not leagacy. People hook up 2 separate dishes to help with rain fade, but in most of the country it is not an issue.
 
Danielle: If you're looking at running the dish 500 output to a switch, you WILL need 2 cables - one for each bird. The switch will handle the rest.
 
larrystotler said:
Per Simon's request:

Ok, I was bored and found an SW42 while digging through some boxes. So, I tried this:

SW64, 110 sat, ports 2a/2b
SW42, 119 sat
SW21 ties both together,
301/13 rec, s/w P203

First attempt:

Did not check the superdish, 38 tests, came up: sw21 3sat
SW42 as sat 1(119 on sat 1), SW64 as sat 2(using port 3 from the SW64)

Input 1 1 1 1 2 2
119 119 110 110 x x
odd evn odd evn x x

Problem detected, check connections.

Second attempt:

Checked SuperDish, 50 tests, came up: SW21 4 Sat
SW42 as sat 1(119 on sat 1), SW64 as sat 2(using port 3 from the SW64)

Input 1a-1 1b-1 2a-1 2b-1 3a-1 3b-1 2 2
x x x x 119 x x x
x x x x odd x x x

Problem detected, check connections.

Third attempt:

Checked SuperDish, 50 tests, came up: SW21
SW42 as sat 1(119 on sat 2), SW64 as sat 2(using port 3 from the SW64)

Input 1 1 1a-1 1b-1 2a-1 2b-1 3a-1 3b-1
x x x x 110 110 x x
x x x x odd even x x

Problem detected, check connections.

Fourth attempt:

SW64 as sat 1, SW42 as sat 2(119 on sat 2).
Checked SD, 50 tests, came up: SW21 4sat

Input 1a-1 1b-1 2a-1 2b-1 3a-1 3b-1 2 2
x x 110 110 x x x x
x x odd evn x x x x

Problem detected, check connections.
t
Fifth attempt:

SW64 as sat 1, SW42 as sat 2(119 on sat 1)
Checked SD, 50 tests, came up: SW21 4-sat

Input 1a-1 1b-1 2a-1 2b-1 3a-1 3b-1 2 2
x x 110 110 x x 119 119
x x odd even x x odd evn

Problem detected, check connections.

I left the SD checked since it only found the 3 sat locations the first test.

Granted, I know I only have 2 sat locations at the moment, but the system should see all 3 switches if the logic is there.
I'm going to have to say that right now it looks like it won't see all 3 switches. It's interesting to note that it shows the sat 2 line on the sw21 as #2 , except on test #3 And, it is interesting that on test 4, with the 119 on the sat 2 of the SW42, it didn't see that one, but on test 2, it seems to have reversed the lines and has the SW64 as sat one as well as the SW42, and has the 119 on the wrong switch. And at no time did it actually say that the SW42 was there.......weird.

When I have some more time, I'll do some repeat runs since the SW42 isn't exactly the most reliable switch, & I will set up the 61.5/105/121 and see what happens with all 5, but I am not very optimistic......

Just wondering if you got around to adding the other dishes?

Also, what if you did this instead...

SW21 with INPUT 1 connected to a TwinLNB or QuadLNB DISH500 (the ones with the dual line). Then On SW21 Line2 have the SW64 with the 61.5/105/121 ? You may need to change which input it is on the SW21.

I agree that you would think that it would detect the switches off the bat even though you didn't have all the LNBs setup, but you never know...
 
Just what IS a DishPro adapter?

Hypothesis: A DP Adapter is nothing but a voltage switched unstacker.

If so, it should be possible to use one hooked to a DP Dual LNBF to make it act like a Legacy Dual LNBF and therefore suitable to be hooked to a SW64.

The wiring would be to hook the DP Adapter to the 'even' port of a SW64, and take the other feed from the DP Dual directly to the 'odd' port.

There's very little practical application for this that I can see, but it would be nice to know if it would work. Anyone out there have the gear and time to try it?
 
Ok,

Today I went out and had planned to go and purchase a FSS LNB w/ 38' but they were out of stock. I will have to go back next week, hopefully they have them. I did pick up a dual fss lnb and a SW 64. So I figured I would give it a try, here is what I did...

Dual Dish500 LNB (w. Built in Switch, Legacy)
SW 21
Microcyl SW 64 (got me mad, they said it was a DNet one)
Dish Network 2700/2800 Reciever

Now, at this time only have 1 feed coming in from the 61.5 location and the 110/119 location, so it may cause these results to be off and if they are please say so.

First thing I did was to make sure the SW64 worked, so I took the 61.5 and plugged it into Port 3B on the SW64, figuring I would get either Odd or Even transponders. Did a check switch. It detected a SW64 and both the Off and Even transponders (Hmm)

I then did the same thing, with the 110/119 but I only got the 110 Even on the 1B location (Hmm).

Went back and put in the 61.5 and now connected the SW21. For simplicity, I am using Port 4 to output, as I didnt want to put it inline with the Power on Port 1.

I tried both SW21 port 1 and 2 and didn't get anything. When I would add the 110/119 into the SW21 with the SW64 in the other, the reciever would detect it as a Twin500.

So here is my initial question.

Do I need to try a single feed into the SW 21?

and

Why is it showing both even and odd?

Unfortuantly, it doesnt look good for the thought that you may be able to go and use the Twin500 with the SW64 and SW21...

Question: I remember reading somewhere that on the SW21, when you are doing a 4 Sat setup, you may need to put the SW64 into a specific feed, does anyone remember which one...

Also, being that I dont have lots of feeds going, I may need to get a FSS going

With a FSS LNB, is there any chance of possibly getting the 105 or 121 on an 18', I have plently of those just sitting around... I can also try a Dish500 or a Phase III DTV dish...

Thanx
 
Arg. There's no way the SW64 is going to work with a Twin. Without going back to see if you've posted before (sorry, we're in a new page ;)), Twin, FSS, and SW21 will give you one receiver's worth of all 3 birds. Is that enough?

If not, is two enough (dual FSS plus another SW21)?

I'm going to assume that ain't gonna cut it - which is why you got the SW64. The SW64 doesn't like Twins. It needs a Quad or a pair of Duals. Any results you get with a Twin are suspect.

So, again, I did NOT go back and look, but how many receivers you after, and what models?
 

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