Mad Scientist Hooks up 5 Satellite Locations!!!!

[mike123abc]

Another item of interest was brought to my attention but, now it is raining and the ladder has been put away. It is quite possible that the DP34/DP21 seeing 4 satellites only works because I have a DPP44 switch. When I did the testing of the DP34/21 I had the DP34 hung off the end of the DPP44 switch. The limit of 3 with DP was a power limitation (i.e. could only drive 3 LNBs). The DPP was powering the LNBs because it was the first switch in the chain. The DP34 was just fed off the DPP44 switch so it did not have to power the LNBs.

So, it is quite possible that the DP34/DP21 combo will NOT work unless you have a DPP44 switch powering the 4 LNBs to start with. This could explain how people have not been able to get it to work before but it worked for me without issues. The DP34/DP21 could be used as a cheaper way to get 4 sattellites to more recievers if your DPP44 switch is filled up.

 

[sksatellite]

Hey, remember, this is DISH NETWORK, only they think its going to work and pass out those crappy receivers and make every body be a mad man.

I think they may endup pushing a motorize dish to see all these sats.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Mike: You might be right there, although the problem might be solvable with power inserters.

 

[bcshields]

I loved reading this thread... this is the kind of stuff I would do if my boos would let me. Time is always my worst enemy.

Has anyone thought of a DP Splitter? We used a bunch of them to split a DPSingle into two lines before the DPDual came out. I know we have a few lying around somewhere. I'm willing to purchase and donate to the cause for experimentation if you wish.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Yes, a DP Splitter has it's purpose in life, limited though it might be.

Consider it to be a DP12 switch.

 

[SimpleSimon]

I copied the following quote by Mike123abc in a thread over at DBSTalk - just because it's got some info in it that I haven't seen posted here. My apologies if doing this bothers anyone, but I'm trying to keep track of all this data to help myself in building a good database of configurations. I'll be starting a thread soon to gether good configuration data - I've just gotta figure out a format to use.

Ok, my testing was done with:

811, 301, and a 921

They all could see 5 satellites when a DPP44 and a DP21 were used. There are a lot of conditions at this time:

1. The separator does not work. This is expected since the DP21 is not a DPP21 (release date next spring?) so the stacking controls for 2 tuners on one wire does not work. So, two tuner boxes need 2 lines.

2. Line 1 of the DPP44 causes problems since the power inserter has to be on line 1. The DP21 appears to block the power so you have to put the inserter between the DP21 and the DPP44. This is a problem since the power inserter has to be indoors, so you need to bring an extra cable into the house to solve this.

Four satellites with a DP34 and DP21 does work IF THE DPP44 IS USED! This sounds strange, but it really is not. You have to have the DPP44 as the first switch to power the LNBs since 4 LNBs need a power inserter. If you want a 5th reciever to see 4 satellites, and do not want to buy another DPP44 you can attach a DP34 to the DPP44 and use a DP21 to feed in the 4th satellite and it works (on the recievers I tested). It is just a cheaper way to add more recievers beyond 4 since a lot of people will have a DP34 lying around when they upgrade to a DPP44.

 

[SimpleSimon]

Here's some other stuff from a thread at the other site:

Mike: one more test might be in order - hook a DPx4 with some combination of 148/61.5/105/121 into side #1 and a DP Twin/Quad on 110/119 into side #2 of the DP21.

My bet will be that the Twin/Quad won't work right - because it's actually a switch, but ho knows.

What about tying an SW64 to an SW44/64 with an SW21. Could that work? Or would that be too much confusion for the receiver?

Well, the switches have different command sets, so that's a plus.

Your concern about what's in the receiver is certainly valid.

I'm going to copy this over to the Mad Switcher thread at SatGuys. Dunno if Mike is willing/able to do Legacy testing, but maybe someone interested in that thread can do it.

 

[mike123abc]

I do not have DP twins/quads to test with

You can cascade a SW21 and SW64, I had it that way on my 6000 for a long time, plus the DPP44 acts like a SW21/64 cascade on legacy recievers.

 

[dfergie]

but ya still need dp pro lnb/s right?

 

[SimpleSimon]

dfergie: Assuming you're referring to Mike's last statement about how the 6000 "see"s the DPP44 - yes - it still requires DP LNBFs as inputs.

 

[bcshields]

I have a question. Since you can use legacy recievers with a DPP44 without a DPAdapter... can you use a legacy switch/lnbf after the 44?

 

[mike123abc]

I have a question. Since you can use legacy recievers with a DPP44 without a DPAdapter... can you use a legacy switch/lnbf after the 44?

The DPP44 requires DP LNBs. It also emulates a SW64/SW21 combo, so you cannot add more switches.

 

[Wayd Wolf]

They need to just start using phased arrays already. Any more of this and we're going to lose people to cable.

"One line into my house versus twelve (censored for commercial) dishes on my (censored again) house?! No (censored yet again) way! I'll stick with cable."

Cox will eventually jump all over this for their anti-dish ads and Dish will just keep serving it up.

 

[SimpleSimon]

They need to just start using phased arrays already.

What is a "phased array" (in this context) and how can it provide 3GHz of bandwidth on a single cable? After all each satellite takes approximately 1GHz to transmit ALL of it's transponders down the line, so 3GHz is the MINIMUM for many users, and 4 or 5 GHz is need for some of them.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

I received word that with the last 811 update you can now see 5 satellites using a DPP44 and a DP21 cascaded. Very cool!

 

[BobaBird]

Scott, is that the P269 update?

 

[dishdood]

..... After all each satellite takes approximately 1GHz to transmit ALL of it's transponders down the line, so 3GHz is the MINIMUM for many users, and 4 or 5 GHz is need for some of them.

DishProPlus allows 2 tuners on one cable by giving the lower band (950-1550) to one and the upper band (1550-2150) to the other, essentially creating two channels. Its conceivable that the next step is to further sub-divide, allowing 4,8,16 (etc) tuners per cable. The switchs will have to get smarter (and more expensive)

 

[SimpleSimon]

Well, welcome aboard dishdood!

DishProPlus allows 2 tuners on one cable by giving the lower band (950-1550) to one and the upper band (1550-2150) to the other, essentially creating two channels. Its conceivable that the next step is to further sub-divide, allowing 4,8,16 (etc) tuners per cable. The switchs will have to get smarter (and more expensive)

Actually, DishPro (the Plus doesn't matter) uses 950-1450MHz and 1650-2150MHz. That's 500MHz per transponder set, or 1 GHz per satellite. Going below 950MHz conflicts with OTA TV, so that's out. Going above 2200MHz would require cable as thick as your thumb due to signal losses - the higher the frequency, the greater the loss. It just ain't gonna happen.

 

[larrystotler]

Actually, there is only 768Mhz available per sat, and since E* only has 21 of 32 trans on the 119, that's only 504 Mhz(768 / 32 x 21). And 29 of 32 on the 110 it's 696(768 / 32 x29). Add that up, and you have 1200Mhz. Which is exactly how much you have between 950-2150Mhz. E* should have worked more towards a 1 cable solution by making a specific setup for the 110/119 and then using the DiSQeC v2.0 standard for more than 2 sats. At least it would have made my life easier.....

 

[larrystotler]

Sw64/sw42/sw21

Per Simon's request:

Ok, I was bored and found an SW42 while digging through some boxes. So, I tried this:

SW64, 110 sat, ports 2a/2b
SW42, 119 sat
SW21 ties both together,
301/13 rec, s/w P203

First attempt:

Did not check the superdish, 38 tests, came up: sw21 3sat
SW42 as sat 1(119 on sat 1), SW64 as sat 2(using port 3 from the SW64)

Input 1 1 1 1 2 2
119 119 110 110 x x
odd evn odd evn x x

Problem detected, check connections.

Second attempt:

Checked SuperDish, 50 tests, came up: SW21 4 Sat
SW42 as sat 1(119 on sat 1), SW64 as sat 2(using port 3 from the SW64)

Input 1a-1 1b-1 2a-1 2b-1 3a-1 3b-1 2 2
x x x x 119 x x x
x x x x odd x x x

Problem detected, check connections.

Third attempt:

Checked SuperDish, 50 tests, came up: SW21
SW42 as sat 1(119 on sat 2), SW64 as sat 2(using port 3 from the SW64)

Input 1 1 1a-1 1b-1 2a-1 2b-1 3a-1 3b-1
x x x x 110 110 x x
x x x x odd even x x

Problem detected, check connections.

Fourth attempt:

SW64 as sat 1, SW42 as sat 2(119 on sat 2).
Checked SD, 50 tests, came up: SW21 4sat

Input 1a-1 1b-1 2a-1 2b-1 3a-1 3b-1 2 2
x x 110 110 x x x x
x x odd evn x x x x

Problem detected, check connections.
t
Fifth attempt:

SW64 as sat 1, SW42 as sat 2(119 on sat 1)
Checked SD, 50 tests, came up: SW21 4-sat

Input 1a-1 1b-1 2a-1 2b-1 3a-1 3b-1 2 2
x x 110 110 x x 119 119
x x odd even x x odd evn

Problem detected, check connections.

I left the SD checked since it only found the 3 sat locations the first test.

Granted, I know I only have 2 sat locations at the moment, but the system should see all 3 switches if the logic is there.
I'm going to have to say that right now it looks like it won't see all 3 switches. It's interesting to note that it shows the sat 2 line on the sw21 as #2 , except on test #3 And, it is interesting that on test 4, with the 119 on the sat 2 of the SW42, it didn't see that one, but on test 2, it seems to have reversed the lines and has the SW64 as sat one as well as the SW42, and has the 119 on the wrong switch. And at no time did it actually say that the SW42 was there.......weird.

When I have some more time, I'll do some repeat runs since the SW42 isn't exactly the most reliable switch, & I will set up the 61.5/105/121 and see what happens with all 5, but I am not very optimistic......