Is rain fade getting worse
- Thread starter Don in CT
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A reminder that rain fade is a misnomer. It's really CLOUD fade. This is the time of year when we get big thunderheads and isolated storms. This is the time of year the sun could be shining on your house, but a giant thunderhead is between you and the satellite. If that happens you could lose signal even if it's not raining a drop on your house. Conversely, it could be coming down in buckets at your house, but the clouds not be that thick between you and the satellite so you get signal no problem.
But as mentioned above, high thin clouds shouldn't have that much of an effect on the signal. It has to be a significant thick cloud between your dish and the satellite.
But as mentioned above, high thin clouds shouldn't have that much of an effect on the signal. It has to be a significant thick cloud between your dish and the satellite.
No, it's rain fade. Liquid water in the form of rain drops attenuates signals from satellites. If you doubt me you should take a short course in weather radar. Believe me, I Have 37 years of aviation weather radar flying experience, both C band and X band. If you have a weather radar app on your phone, you can track the exact columns of rainwater that affect your satellite reception.
I was looking up info on the 101 and I found Stuart's old article on SD ending in 2019 and he had updated it with this.
THE END IS COMING: DIRECTV announces end of SD service - The Solid Signal Blog
Update: March, 2018
It’s not completely clear what will happen after the 2019 date. Certainly any channels that are currently coming off the 119 satellite will stop broadcasting, since that satellite is being decommissioned. There are approximately 800 channels on the 101 satellite that may continue broadcasting, since there is really nothing else that can be done with that satellite capacity. It was designed for standard definition, not for HD.
“Designed for SD?”
Satellites are bent pipes. How could it possibly matter if the signal was SD or HD?
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Satellites are bent pipes. How could it possibly matter if the signal was SD or HD?
Sent from my iPhone using the SatelliteGuys app!
Hmmm.... what are thunderheads made out of?
I have 21 years experience with DBS satellites and signal loss issues. LOL. The thickness of the clouds (amount of water between you and the satellite), not the rain itself that kills the signal.
True..unless 4k or 8k..transponders do have a limit
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Not sure what the heck Stuart was talking about there claiming the satellite was "designed for SD". That's like saying my car was designed for to be driven on the right side, and couldn't be used in the UK. 
Transponders have a limit to their bit rate, but they can be bonded together (bandwidth added between them) if you wanted to carry something very high bandwidth like 8K. There's nothing stopping them doing that with 101, well other than that being a waste of "prime real estate" and the fact there are no 8K channels...
Of course, you can tweak the bit rate to anything you like, up to the Shannon limit (not sure what that is for Ku) They could make a transponder at 101 carry 100 Mbps which would be more than enough for an 8K channel. Of course you'd have so little signal margin a few little puffy clouds might be enough to give you "rain fade"!
Transponders have a limit to their bit rate, but they can be bonded together (bandwidth added between them) if you wanted to carry something very high bandwidth like 8K. There's nothing stopping them doing that with 101, well other than that being a waste of "prime real estate" and the fact there are no 8K channels...
Of course, you can tweak the bit rate to anything you like, up to the Shannon limit (not sure what that is for Ku) They could make a transponder at 101 carry 100 Mbps which would be more than enough for an 8K channel. Of course you'd have so little signal margin a few little puffy clouds might be enough to give you "rain fade"!
I sure do! Huge columns of water droplets in the form of rain and hail. Don't argue about the structure and content of thunderstorms, weather radar, and signal attenuation with an experienced pilot. It is the column of rain (not hail or vapor) that both reflects and attenuates signals.
Fog goes up maybe a few hundred feet at most, so no. You will not see any issues. However a 5 mile thick cloud WILL have an effect on your signal. I know. I've seen it with my own eyes.
Rain, coming from a thin layer of clouds has virtually NO effect on signal. A thick thunderhead that hasn't started to precipitate yet, WILL have a noticeable effect on your signal.
Puffy white clouds? No problem with signal
Thick angry clouds? Problem with signal if it comes between your dish and the satellite, rain or no rain.
It depends on what is in the cloud. A five mile thick cloud that's just vapor isn't going to matter. The reason the "thick angry clouds" affect signal is because there is so much water in them. Not water vapor, but actual water (and ice) droplets getting blown around by the winds inside the cloud. The size of the water droplets matters, because what causes rain fade is mostly refraction/scattering, and vapor "droplets" are too small to cause that at Ka frequencies (it might if they were broadcasting at say 60 GHz instead of 18 GHz)
You can't see inside clouds with the naked eye. Trust me, it's the columns of rain inside clouds that attenuate signals. Thunderstorms can have a very significant rain water column before expelling rain to the ground. That's why we use radar in aircraft to avoid the turbulence from thunderstorms clouds. Any rain, from any source will attenuate signals, it just depends on density.
*Sigh*
Raining or not raining where you are doesn't make a difference. It's the amount of moisture between you and the satellite. You just explained WHY it's cloud fade. LOL. You're arguing semantics. The water in the 5 mile thick cloud is what is blocking your signal, not the rain from a 2000' ceiling to your dish.
Raining or not raining where you are doesn't make a difference. It's the amount of moisture between you and the satellite. You just explained WHY it's cloud fade. LOL. You're arguing semantics. The water in the 5 mile thick cloud is what is blocking your signal, not the rain from a 2000' ceiling to your dish.
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