Is now the time to switch to D* and the HD Tivo?

[jaschier]

Current E* sub, ready to move into a new apartment within next 60 days. Assuming clear LOS, I'd like to switch b/c sports advantage of D*. I've heard posts of people upgrading to the HD Tivo directly from D* for low prices, and was guranteed they would be replaced after/for transition to Mpeg4. I don't have an HD TV set yet, but will be graduating college this spring, and wife said when I graduate I can waste some on a new HDTV. Only thing is that I don't want to sign a 2 year agreement, I think it's ridiculus. Maybe 1 year, but certainly not 2. I know with E* you can sign up for DHPP, have $30 service call then cancel DHPP. Not sure if cheap service calls is that easy with D*. It would also be nice to get that 4 free months of programming promotion.

Do I sign up now and get the HD DVR equipment even though can't use HD prog for another 8 months? I'd want to switch so that I'd still have the sports channels E* doesn't have for at least the majority of football seasons.

Or should I move with either E* or go with cable until next year's football seasons start and sign up then?

What are the best promotions I should sign up for/should get if I move and swith to D* in october?

 

[sequoiadean]

I would just sign up for D* with an SD Tivo, and when you have an HD television, THEN get the HD DVR - either Tivo, or whatever D* is offereing then.

 

[mhambright]

HDtv on a SdTv

I would go ahead and switch, for several reasons. 1. You can watch the HDtv programs (channel 70-71-72 ect)on a Sdtv and get a vast improvement in picture. The HD10-250 has a great picture and sound on all channels. 2. The new HDTV DVRs are software upgradeable to mpeg4. If you happen to get an older one the will exchange it when the time comes. 3. They have a great deal on the HD Dvr, It is on deal for $250.00 + a $100.00 rebate = final cost of $150.00. 6 mo free on the premium of your choice + free installation, 1/2 off 3 mo of hdnet programing. 4. The off air tuner is great for OTA locals until they come in 06.
7. ESPN2 starts on the 8th of Sept. I could keep going, but it is easyest to say I love mine. I had E* Hd for a while. The picture on all channels are not as good ( over compressed) the guide is a cluster and service stinks. The recieve hangs and is slow. That is my 2 cents worth for what ever it is worth.

 

[vurbano]

Current E* sub, ready to move into a new apartment within next 60 days. Assuming clear LOS, I'd like to switch b/c sports advantage of D*. I've heard posts of people upgrading to the HD Tivo directly from D* for low prices, and was guranteed they would be replaced after/for transition to Mpeg4. I don't have an HD TV set yet, but will be graduating college this spring, and wife said when I graduate I can waste some on a new HDTV. Only thing is that I don't want to sign a 2 year agreement, I think it's ridiculus. Maybe 1 year, but certainly not 2. I know with E* you can sign up for DHPP, have $30 service call then cancel DHPP. Not sure if cheap service calls is that easy with D*. It would also be nice to get that 4 free months of programming promotion.

Do I sign up now and get the HD DVR equipment even though can't use HD prog for another 8 months? I'd want to switch so that I'd still have the sports channels E* doesn't have for at least the majority of football seasons.

Or should I move with either E* or go with cable until next year's football seasons start and sign up then?

What are the best promotions I should sign up for/should get if I move and swith to D* in october?

read this thread before you commit to 2 yrs of crap Picture Quality http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=575886

 

[Sean Mota]

You do not have to look very far. DirecTv has the worse PQ I have ever experienced in my life. Universal HD sucks, HDnet sucks, HDnet movies sucks, Discovery HD sucks,... All of these channels are plain and simple either blocking all the time or pixelating or they have so soft that you think your HDTV screen has smoke. If this is the new way DirecTv is re-inventing TV, it is just plain wrong to provide less quality than any other provider. I can only tell you because I compared these channels on Dish Network on the same program and an HDTV calibrated on both inputs. So before you sign up for D* and make a commitment, think about what you are getting into becasue when you sit down to enjoy a program and you look at it and it states HD but you think something is wrong. No, nothing is wrong with your HDTV is the DirecTv feed that is less than HD.

 

[rockaway1836]

I would hold off if it's going to be that long. No one really knows what's going to happen after the MPEG4 conversion. By the time 8 months has come and gone the conversion should be well under way and you can make a more educated choice. I have access to 4 HD sets and receivers. None of them have the PQ issues that others have posted here.

 

[Spike]

I second Sean's post. I did the watch and compare test between D* and E* too. E* won hands down on the exact same channels. D* = HD Extra Light, less filling and no taste!

 

[kermit24]

You do not have to look very far. DirecTv has the worse PQ I have ever experienced in my life. Universal HD sucks, HDnet sucks, HDnet movies sucks, Discovery HD sucks,... QUOTE]

This seems like a severe exaggeration to me. "The worst PQ in my life" I would agree that the quality on Discovery HD has been sub par recently. But, the 4 HD networks (ABC,NBC,CBS,FOX) that I get via satellite from D* look great. Much better than that over compressed local SD network channels that I used to get from E*. E* only had CBS HD. HBO and SHO HD look great as well. Not to mention the fact that ESPN 2 HD is coming in a few days, and I will have access to over 100 HD NFL games this year from D*.

I had E* HD for 2 years.

I just switched to D* for several reasons:
1. HD Networks
2. I had a crap HD DVR from E* called the 921 that they wouldn't let me upgrade to the new model for a reasonable price.
3. NFL Sunday Ticket
4. A great price on the H10-250 Tivo. This unit is excellent, extremely reliable. (I used to need to reboot my buggy E* 921 at least twice a week)

I would recommend that you switch, especially if you are a sports fan. This HD lite that has been bantered around the forums is quite overdramatic/overblown, and is usually mentioned by E* loyalists.

 

[vurbano]

You do not have to look very far. DirecTv has the worse PQ I have ever experienced in my life. Universal HD sucks, HDnet sucks, HDnet movies sucks, Discovery HD sucks,... QUOTE]

This seems like a severe exaggeration to me. "The worst PQ in my life" I would agree that the quality on Discovery HD has been sub par recently. But, the 4 HD networks (ABC,NBC,CBS,FOX) that I get via satellite from D* look great. Much better than that over compressed local SD network channels that I used to get from E*. E* only had CBS HD. HBO and SHO HD look great as well. Not to mention the fact that ESPN 2 HD is coming in a few days, and I will have access to over 100 HD NFL games this year from D*.

I had E* HD for 2 years.

I just switched to D* for several reasons:
1. HD Networks
2. I had a crap HD DVR from E* called the 921 that they wouldn't let me upgrade to the new model for a reasonable price.
3. NFL Sunday Ticket
4. A great price on the H10-250 Tivo. This unit is excellent, extremely reliable. (I used to need to reboot my buggy E* 921 at least twice a week)

I would recommend that you switch, especially if you are a sports fan. This HD lite that has been bantered around the forums is quite overdramatic/overblown, and is usually mentioned by E* loyalists.

Ive never subbed to E*. The D* HD picture is crap. Ive seen cable, OTAHD, VOOM and D*. D* is currently the worst Ive seen. I cant imagine anything worse at the moment. I regret not getting E* when Voom ended, But I had D* equipment and they were making a lot of promises, so I dropped a bundle on their HDtivo. IMO, Sean is a straight shooter (im going to ignore his temporary insanity when he went over to the dark side (D*) which was the reason I followed him back over there) and if he says E* is the best HD PQ then I do believe him. The OP should go here http://www.widemovies.com/dfwbitrate.html if he needs further proof. Take a look at the downrezzing and bitrate slashing. A lot of D*'s HD bitrate are less than Superbit DVD!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[riffjim4069]

This seems like a severe exaggeration to me. "The worst PQ in my life" I would agree that the quality on Discovery HD has been sub par recently...This HD lite that has been bantered around the forums is quite overdramatic/overblown, and is usually mentioned by E* loyalists.

I agree with everything Sean, Vurbano and others have mentioned; D* HD is terrible. Most of us just want full bitrate HD and more HD programming. It's that simply! After a year of VOOM DBS service, I am now with E* w/HD Pak and VOOM HD Pak. I looked at what D* and Cable had to offer, but E* offered both the most HD and best quality HD of the lot - by far. D* has announced grand plans of taking HD to the next level. I will be one of the first to sign up IF these plans ever materialize. Until then, D* doesn't rate further consideration.

 

[rockaway1836]

Guys, I wouldn't be stupid enough to argue what you are experiencing. But there has to be something wrong here. I have D and OTA for HD and can see little if any difference in PQ. Most of my OTA stations are the same as D's east coast feed. I am watching on four different setups. No problems on any of them. And it's just not me. Two of the setups are in my local mens club. Everyone is blown away by what they are watching.

 

[vurbano]

Guys, I wouldn't be stupid enough to argue what you are experiencing. But there has to be something wrong here. I have D and OTA for HD and can see little if any difference in PQ. Most of my OTA stations are the same as D's east coast feed. I am watching on four different setups. No problems on any of them. And it's just not me. Two of the setups are in my local mens club. Everyone is blown away by what they are watching.

Nothing wrong here except a reduction of 1/3 of the pixels in the picture. Just for fun I typed in Valley cottage Ny zipcode10989 into antennaweb and got :

DTVAntenna
TypeCall SignChannelNetworkCityStateLive
DateCompass
OrientationMiles
FromFrequency
Assignment *red - uhfWNJN-DT51.1 PBS MONTCLAIR NJ
231°22.451 *blue - uhfWRNN-DT48.1 IND KINGSTON NY
12°25.348 *blue - uhfWTBY-DT54.1 TBN POUGHKEEPSIE NY
12°25.327

for digital stations. It doesnt seem as if there are any CBS, NBC,FOX or ABC HD networks available OTA. That would explain your problem of never seeing any high quality HD before and not knowing the difference. Hdnet a couple of years ago was comparable to CBSHD OTA in this area with only a weather radar subchannel. Today there is no contest. HDnetmovies on D* is approaching the terrible OTA quality of my local PBSHD channel with 3 subchannels full of programming.

 

[Sean Mota]

I am not here to bash DirecTv and have people switch to another provider. I do not care about that. I am a DirecTv subscriber right now with a year contract and bought all the equipment so I have a whole lot invested own it. I am also a Dish Network subscriber and I have bought my equipment as well. So I have nothing to gain by conveying my observations. I have trash to the ground Dish Network as well for their sometimes questionable moves. So I am here as a simple subscriber trying to tell you what I see with my own eyes about the HD channels.

OTA Networks This one is very hard to generalize. Every OTA channel when compare with HD Network, carried through DirecTv, is different. In my area (NYC), the OTA is quite acceptable and I am for the most part very happy with the job that the stations do. When I compared the OTA channels in my area to the DirecTv HD Networks like CBS HD, ABC HD, NBC HD, & Fox HD, the OTA wins. There's no argument about it. I rather see these channels through my Antenna (OTA) than DirecTv. Reasons: these channels through DirecTv are very soft and show compression artifacts. My experience may not translate to your area for OTA Networks. In fact, it is possible that for your area, the OTA Networks may be providing less bandwith and compressing more than DirecTv. This is why it may not look any different to you. I also get CBS HD through Dish Network and I can tell you that CBS HD through Dish Network and my OTA CBS HD are identical.

HDnet, HDnet Movies, ESPN HD & Discovery HD

I have compared Dish Network and DirecTv on these channels and Dish Network Channels are far superior in Picture Quality (PQ). These channels on DirecTv are very soft and lack vibrant colors. Also, the 3D effect or WOW factor are gone on DirecTv. You can still see the 3D effect or Wow factor on Dish Network.

Universal HD This channel is at best 480p. But I think my DVD does a better job. Any simple movement and you will see motion artifact like you have never seen before. On still pictures the PQ is so soft and watch out. Very hard channel to watch.

Showtime HD I have made no comparisons on DirecTv but movies that are 2004 and you know that the transfer is supposed to be much better than what DirecTv presents are not being shown. I looked at the DVD for comparison and showtime is a 1080i upconvert. I am not talking about the upconverts in Showtime. I am talking about what is supposed to be HD. The channel has this watch out and soft look.

HBO HD I have nothing to compare right now. But it looks decent but from what I remember from VOOM and Dish Network (when I had it), something is funny but I can't comment on it.

Channel 94 YES HD This channel looks fabulous on DirecTv.

Channel 95 FSN WEST HD I saw this channel when DirecTv had the MLB free preview and HD baseball games from FSN WEST looked awful. I thought that it was a production problem but I asked a few Dish Network customer who are also getting these games in HD and they do not seem to see the same problems.


This is just my assesment. It may not count by much because I do not have bitrates data. But it is my observation of what I am seeing. Vurbano posted the link to the bitrates already. To me it does not matter how much $$ I invested in any provider, if the HD channels are bad and I cannot watch them, how could I go blind on that. I wonder why DirecTv couldn't do a better job with these channels. Voom had less bandwith and some of their channels at 1440x1080i looked very good and they did not degrade the HD channels so much. This is no exaggeration. If you ONLY have DirecTv, you may not be able to compare, but try to make comparison with another provider and you will see the difference.

 

[Neutron]

The HR10-250 will never be software upgradable to MPEG-4. Directv will swap out your HD DTivo for their HD DVR when the time comes.

If Directv doesn't up the HD quality then it's Comcrap here I come.

 

[mhambright]

Hr10-250

The newer version of the HR10-250 is software upgradeable. The older versions are not. Models shipped right now are. When the locals come on by the end of next year it will be relevant. They will either swap or cut the mpeg4 on in the new version of the HR10-250. It will be done as locals come on but not till then. Take Atlanta when they have locals in mpeg4 then they will swap or upgrade software, no one else. It is only relevant as locals come on and change to mpeg4. It will not be a hot switch, but a gradual transition city by city. Nothing except locals are going to Mpeg4 till all are done. As for my input. I truely enjoyed the Sc and Cf game last night on D* espn hd with a 50" plasma. By the way the picture was greatly improved on espn hd also on my SD RCA 32" sent thru my second HD reciever. I know some people hate to think they have inferior tv. So I will say having used both " Directv has by far the best picture, guide and HD reciever. Just my way of seeing it.

 

[riggscm]

I'm startin to think this mhambright guy works for D*

And the reason D* is cutting the price on the HD Tivo is because they are NOT upgradable. There has been discussion after discussion on this site about that.

D* wants to eliminate stockpiles of equipment.

 

[vurbano]

gotta love newbies. Theres just too much misinformation in that post to even bother.

 

[jaschier]

So which is true? Will new ones be upgradable or will they not? If I happen to get an old one that won't upgrade or they just won't, everyone seems to be in agreement D* will replace it correct?

I think when we move next month we'll make the switch. It'll be to an apt, so we'll need a big rubbermade bucket, quick cement and a pole, but should I a metal pole or wooden post? is that all I'll need? Should I have it set in cement as close to 90 degrees as I can before the tech gets there? Also, how in the world do you get the cables in through a sliding glass door? I've heard there something that allows you to get it through without drilling a hole in the wall.
I want to make sure that if I don't get an HD rec and wait until I have an HDTV first, then upgrade, that the dish I get will be able to rec sig from whichever sat location HD is located (example: i don't want to be like an E* stuck with a dish500 but in 8 months will need to pay for a new superdish). I live in Roanoke VA zip code 24012. I believe I'd need a triple LNB?
Thanks for the help and advice folks!

 

[mhambright]

re

You have to love dummies that know nothing about electronics nor computers. The change was a simple chip replacement in the reciever. the big difference in mpeg4 and mpeg2 is software. Sorry I have not been there reading your bs as long as the others in this group I just know electronics an satellite systems and computers. You might love spreading mis-info to promote your favorite system. But I stand by my former statement and only time will tell. Good luck and hope you love your e* sys and their screwed up guide that you have to reset, what every 2 days?. And what about those locals, aren't they great. Please give me good rabit ears. I would also be upset to know that is the best reciever e* has to offer when D* has a quality sys NOW. They are wanting to sell there own version of DVR around the first of the year, which might be great. You saw the schedual on HD and locals. THey are going to offering locals in mpeg4. How are they going to do that even before ther new mpeg4 dvr ships??? And your ver on why they are offering deals on dvrs do not hold water. Why give sd dvrs away and sell HD dvs for $150.00 if they knew they just was going to have to replace them. Every one they give away they have to pay the dealer for it. Why pay for something now just to have to pay again in a few mo. They have said every one that is not upgradeable they will replace with a 2 yr com. Talk of lack of understanding. Newbe or dummie,,,you make the up your mind who you listen to.

 

[vurbano]

Ill listen to longhornXp and Robert at VE. The NEW HDtivo models DO have an mpeg4 chip but they are only on preorder. Ive heard nothing about mpeg4 chips placed in old models.