Iraq (a try to have some meanningful conversation...)

[W_Tracy_Parnell]

Do not bother responding T2K -your blatant anti-American garbage is just hate speak. Get your ass back to whatever cave you crawled out of and burn your bra!
I will not respond to the diarea the spurts from your pie hole anymore. Further more I suggest everyone else to do so as well.

Just put him on your ignore list-works like a charm.

 

[W_Tracy_Parnell]

Well said!

For a 3 year war it is nothing. 767 deaths a year compared to 7300 a year in vietnam. Thats a 90% reduction in casualty rate. This is not even remotely comparable to Vietnam no matter how many times the Liberals use the "Quagmire" word

How quickly we forget our roots, (well not yours comrade) when Mr Jefferson said

"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants"

I dont think that only applies to our Republic, but to any circumstance where people desire freedom from oppression, such as Iraq.

 

[vurbano]

It's funny that the liberals are blamed when stuff isn't done right, when actually the liberals were not the ones making the decisions...

Last time I checked we wouldnt have been in a war without them voting for it. And you dont think the liberal wackos backing Nut jobs like Cindy Sheehan are not preventing us from having more troops there?

 

[W_Tracy_Parnell]

I see no reason to bring back the draft at these low casualty rates.

Absolutely correct. The all volunteer military has been a fantastic success. Everyone their signed up of their own free will and knew (or should have known) what they were getting into.

 

[W_Tracy_Parnell]

How many here have friends or family of draft age? How you you like to see them conscripted annd come back in a coffin?

Nobody wants to see any Americans in a coffin. My son is 18 and could be drafted, but as Vurbano pointed out that is not going to happen unless there is a world war or something.

I have a brother who was in Gulf War I and a nephew who did two tours with the Marines in Fallujah and other unsavory spots. He saw friends killed there. And he will be in the reserves when he gets out so it is possible he could go back. Nobody wants to see anyone hurt but there are times when you have to fight for what is right. And it may get worse folks-this may only be the start.

 

[W_Tracy_Parnell]

Agreed, but you miss my point. You continue to compare Vietnam when validating your casualty argument. You cannot say stop comparing when you are the one that is continuing to compare.

The point is when you compare, there is no comparison!

 

[W_Tracy_Parnell]

It's funny that the liberals are blamed when stuff isn't done right, when actually the liberals were not the ones making the decisions...

But the liberals are controlling the perception of the war through the liberal mainstream media and the endless Democratic party sound bites. They should be blamed for promoting the false idea that everything is bad in Iraq and we should get out. Just look at the polls throughout the conflict. In the beginning when the dems were holding their tongue, the public support was there. Now it is eroding and all you see out of the media and dems is negativity. Cause and effect in my book.

 

[Bob Haller]

Good point. Unfortunately the Liberals would never allow it. Its too politically advantageous to scream "Quagmire lets cut and run" and use that as a platform to campaign on since they have no platform. The more I see how mindless and gutless the liberals are the more I am convinced that soon we will all be on our knees 5 times a day facing east.

bush cheney rumsfeld made the choice to go to war and how to go about it.
bush had the backing of the american public from the beginning and even got re elected after it wasnt goiing well...

he could of gotten what was needed but didnt want to appear to strong to other countries.

well guess what? if you choose to make war you must overwhelm them, and provide adquate security once you defeat the military.

we neither overwhelmed them or provided enough security.

we will pull out, but Iran and others will probably take over. thats why bush doesnt want to leave...

meanwhile the real enemy osama bin laden was never found.........

if we had used the resources wasted in iraq we would of had his head on a stick long ago..........

 

[Bob Haller]

But the liberals are controlling the perception of the war through the liberal mainstream media and the endless Democratic party sound bites. They should be blamed for promoting the false idea that everything is bad in Iraq and we should get out. Just look at the polls throughout the conflict. In the beginning when the dems were holding their tongue, the public support was there. Now it is eroding and all you see out of the media and dems is negativity. Cause and effect in my book.

no the polls dropping can be expected anytime you mire us in a endless war we cant win. just look at the costs not just in lives the $$$ is going to kill the economy, by the time it firmly crashes bush will be retired on his ranch....

bush as a commander and chief is a complete failure

polls are all about success and failure the iraquis have less control than 2 years ago, media must go out with air support and armored vehicles. the situation is a civil war or close to it

 

[W_Tracy_Parnell]

no the polls dropping can be expected anytime you mire us in a endless war we cant win. just look at the costs not just in lives the $$$ is going to kill the economy, by the time it firmly crashes bush will be retired on his ranch....

bush as a commander and chief is a complete failure

polls are all about success and failure the iraquis have less control than 2 years ago, media must go out with air support and armored vehicles. the situation is a civil war or close to it

Let's say it is a civil war. What should we do cut and run? That would be as big a disaster as pulling out of Vietnam was. Our credibility would be at an all time low. I don't agree with everything that has been done there either but we have to stay the course. We were in Germany and Japan 50 plus years-actually we are still there in a sense. We should stay in Iraq just as long, at least keep a base there. To do anything else is an insult to those that died.

 

[Chado]

Let's say it is a civil war. What should we do cut and run? That would be as big a disaster as pulling out of Vietnam was. Our credibility would be at an all time low. I don't agree with everything that has been done there either but we have to stay the course. We were in Germany and Japan 50 plus years-actually we are still there in a sense. We should stay in Iraq just as long, at least keep a base there. To do anything else is an insult to those that died.

But I don't understand how staying longer will help things. Our credibility really can't get much lower than it already is. I personally think it's an insult to the American people that one person died over there. I don't mean that as an attack on anybody here, just my own personal opinion.

 

[T2k]

Let's say it is a civil war. What should we do cut and run? That would be as big a disaster as pulling out of Vietnam was. Our credibility would be at an all time low.

Ouch. FYI: in case you still haven't noticed, our credibility IS at a historic all-time low and sinking.

I don't agree with everything that has been done there either but we have to stay the course. We were in Germany and Japan 50 plus years-actually we are still there in a sense. We should stay in Iraq just as long, at least keep a base there. To do anything else is an insult to those that died.

Germany and Japan have nothing in common with the invasion of Iraq.

I'm sick of this idiotic false crap about WWII Bush started blurbing weeks ago.

 

[sidekick]

I agree with your assessment regarding the ignore list. I've also used it for certain people whose "views" are always laced with profanity, insults, etc. There's simply no point in reading that kind of garbage.

Just put him on your ignore list-works like a charm.

 

[T2k]

Ot

I agree with your assessment regarding the ignore list. I've also used it for certain people whose "views" are always laced with profanity, insults, etc. There's simply no point in reading that kind of garbage.

OFF
Excellent idea...



wait: then why do you spam here with this OT instead of msg'ing him?

 

[T2k]

Another interesting read...

Mideast Civil War Stories

By Doug Tunnell
Special to washingtonpost.com
Monday, March 27, 2006; 12:00 AM

As more Iraqis die in the current wave of sectarian violence, Americans have begun to wrestle with the vocabulary of civil war. Is Iraq "hurtling toward" one, is it "on the verge" or has the Iraqi civil war already begun?

A few observations from a veteran of one Middle East civil war might be helpful. First, a civil war is not a volcano. It does not erupt. No flags drop at the starting line. No balloon goes up. Civil war doesn't break out, so much as germinate. It is an evil seed, buried deep within the minds of those who prosecute it.

Civil war is the most personal kind of combat. Most of its victims die in their own homes or the streets of their own neighborhood. Many die at the hands of neighbors, some of whom may once have been considered friends.

Sometimes the only signs of this kind of war are the bodies, bound and blindfolded, that turn up once curfew is lifted. This week, Iraqis discovered victims of execution style killings buried in a shallow grave in Baghdad. Others, who appeared to have been strangled with a rope or wire, were simply dumped into the street, much like the 18 Iraqis discovered by American troops in a Sunni neighborhood last week. All faced their executioners up close.

Imagine a high school shooting spree, only 100 as bad, that continues for years with the enthusiastic support of the international arms market.

That was Lebanon.

There are as many varying accounts as to where, when and why the Lebanese civil war began as there are survivors of it.

Some insist that fifteen years of violence started with an argument between a Palestinian and a Maronite Christian over a pinball machine in a sidewalk café.

Others cite the massacre of a busload of Palestinians coming home from work through a Maronite neighborhood in east Beirut.

To this day there are those who argue that Lebanon's war was not a civil war at all but rather an international conflict played out by proxy in the streets of a fragile, religiously diverse Arab state.

If the Lebanese model holds, we may still see some prolonged periods of relative calm in Iraq. But as another veteran of Beirut, New York Times correspondent John Kifner wrote not long ago, civil wars have a particular "rhythm." That rhythm makes them very different from other kinds of war, and even more difficult comprehend:

A provocation -- like the bombing of Samarra's Shiite mosque on February 22 -- is followed by an outburst of sectarian killing. Stunned by its own brutality, the populace withdraws for a time into a period of self-examination, denial and shocked disbelief. Politicians seek to break the gridlock with renewed urgency. But the respite offers provocateurs and militiamen time to regroup and rearm. They further infiltrate the police, the military and the security services. In the absence of strong central authority, neighborhoods take the law into their own hands and brace for the next attack. The violence spirals upward. Each reprisal is even more horrendous than the last.

All these steps have been described in reports from Iraq in the last month, including a proclivity for denial.

Apparently unwilling to accept the fact of a near total collapse of social order, many Lebanese chose to call their conflict "the troubles," instead of war, for years after it began.

There seems to be no universally accepted definition of a civil war.But then, civil war is in no way universal. It is brutally specific, horribly individual.

Don't look for armored columns breaking through the berm. A civil war doesn't start on a battlefield. It starts in hearts and minds.

Doug Tunnell, a former CBS News correspondent, covered the Lebanese civil war for five years.

 

[Bob Haller]

Let's say it is a civil war. What should we do cut and run? That would be as big a disaster as pulling out of Vietnam was. Our credibility would be at an all time low. I don't agree with everything that has been done there either but we have to stay the course. We were in Germany and Japan 50 plus years-actually we are still there in a sense. We should stay in Iraq just as long, at least keep a base there. To do anything else is an insult to those that died.

We are now part of the problem rather than part of the solution....

These are the same arguments made about vietnam....

We finally pulled out and the world didnt end. Vietnam is a pretty prosperous country today.

 

[vurbano]

But I don't understand how staying longer will help things.

Then you dont understnad much. Pulling out before there is a stable government would endanger the security of the region and US security interests.

 

[vurbano]

Ouch. FYI: in case you still haven't noticed, our credibility IS at a historic all-time low and sinking.

Are you an american citizen?

 

[T2k]

Are you an american citizen?

Ain't your busness, kid.

So again, your point is....?

 

[T2k]

Then you dont understnad much. Pulling out before there is a stable government would endanger the security of the region and US security interests.

What a bunch of crap.

Pulling out would only lower the hatred thus less young Muslim will be sucked into these jihadists groups.