Import Distant Networks?

[ChadT41]

As with RSNs, distant subs are worth considerably less than potential sales opportunities so this is a specious argument.

If a station claims distant viewers in their numbers, local advertisers who have little hope of gaining their business are not going to be pleased.

I thought the return volley from the Mr. Wharton was actually uncharacteristically well reasoned. Your argument that viewers will be positively impacted may be negatively impacted if the stations start folding their tents absent being able to gouge revenues from two of the five largest carriers. If the FCC pisses off a large conglomerate like Sinclair, they may just pull out of many of their 79 markets.

Franchising and the exclusivity associated with it remains an imperative to insure that relevant local news and information gets out there.

If a station claims distant channels as a seperate asset, then their advertisers will pay them the same, and if they land a larger advertiser(Budweiser, Nike, etc) may be willing to pay at a discount comparatively to cover the other areas as well. This would work well for geographic marketing. The local advertisers will not be to unhappy, as they will be reaching the same audience they were before. The only ad providers that would be mad would be the ones on the dropped channels.

 

[Tampa8]

As I understand it, stations aren't allowed by their commercial and syndicated show contracts to be shown outside their market. So if Dish drops the LA CBS (for example), the San Francisco CBS can't say "you can carry us" because of their programming agreements. If they were allowed to, they'd stream 24/7.

My take on it even if that is true, once there is no agreement on carriage either by must carry or by contract, the FCC must be saying there is no available local of that network till the Court or whoever decides the outcome, so importing a signal is allowed just as it is when there literally is no local. the only thing that has stopped importing is the FCC rule of not allowing it during a dispute. Otherwise why would the FCC bother making the change.

 

[ChadT41]

Another response to Harshness... Let Sinclair and Media General and everyone go ahead and pull out. Let locals become truly local again, and let the government remove their rights to be carried OtA. Not making very much money that way. I'm sure there are plenty of small businesses willing to take over and act fairly and ethically. Let the big guys take their ball and go home. They can't offer their service as a premium, so they won't have anything to do as far as TV goes.

 

[Tampa8]

And one more thought on that. This may all be happening because the era of several local channels in all the communities may be over it may have to be more regional. If the consumer has to pay extorted higher and higher fees for what is supposed to be free it may be time to change the landscape of locals. The FCC as I have said before is actually responsible for making the system now in place. They obviously see that now, I feel they have received many complaints from providers not just from more vocal ones like DISH about the tactics being used by locals, and thus the changes being considered. It should have been the only cost is that of getting the signal to the provider can be recouped, and the provider may not charge over their costs for locals if they decide to carry them. (I do agree with carry one carry all)

 

[Tampa8]

No that is not the case now. Rates vary between providers The import question you thought threw is not correct. A channel owner would get more revenue for being in the new market or a imported market than they would for just being in their own DMA. So they would welcome the idea of importing their signal

I have thought it through. There is a complete different side to that, they don't want it done to them. If they have a dispute they don't want a signal imported on them either. By the way I don't know (literally I do not know) that an imported local has any say in it if there is no local in another market and DISH imports one. It seems like DISH has that ability. And as I posted above, it would appear the FCC is saying if there is no agreement then till the issue is resolved there is no local of that network in that DMA available to DISH so they can import one. Judging from the proposal the only thing stopping the importing during a dispute is the FCC rule itself.

 

[sam_gordon]

let the government remove their rights to be carried OtA. Not making very much money that way.

I know in my market, and assuming a lot of other markets, most MVPDs pick up the locals BY OTA*. If OTA goes away, how do you want the MVPDs to get the signal?

* ONE station feeds Direct via Fiber, and I think all the stations feed TW via fiber. The rest of the MVPDs rely on OTA.

 

[sam_gordon]

My take on it even if that is true, once there is no agreement on carriage either by must carry or by contract, the FCC must be saying there is no available local of that network till the Court or whoever decides the outcome, so importing a signal is allowed just as it is when there literally is no local. the only thing that has stopped importing is the FCC rule of not allowing it during a dispute. Otherwise why would the FCC bother making the change.

I don't think it's an FCC thing though. As I understand it (and yes, I can be wrong), it's the stations contracts with the program producers that prevent distributing to other markets. Maybe the stations that are imported to short markets have clauses in their contracts that allow it.

 

[ChadT41]

Read the rest of it in context. If Sinclair wants to take their ball and head home, then they no longer get locals carried on OtA. Let that slot go to another company that will fulfill the need and broadcast local channels.

 

[The Fat Man]

This is, to me, something that we are reading too far into. My reasoning: WBZ was blacked out a couple of years ago due to a transmission issue, not contract negotiations. Simply, Dish imported WCBS from New York.

I get that these are both CBS O&O, but my point is that if there was some huge issue with importing a distant local, due to contract restrictions with programming, then how is it allowed in a situation such as the former mentioned one? I know that there's always an explanation, but I simply feel that it's all a ruse to maximize profit for the station.

 

[RONZ]

I know in my market, and assuming a lot of other markets, most MVPDs pick up the locals BY OTA*. If OTA goes away, how do you want the MVPDs to get the signal?

* ONE station feeds Direct via Fiber, and I think all the stations feed TW via fiber. The rest of the MVPDs rely on OTA.

No in most cases the station has one PtOP. That signal feeds a master control (away from the station) and the signals are dispersed to each provider. It is very rear that OTL is used

 

[RONZ]

This is, to me, something that we are reading too far into. My reasoning: WBZ was blacked out a couple of years ago due to a transmission issue, not contract negotiations. Simply, Dish imported WCBS from New York.

I get that these are both CBS O&O, but my point is that if there was some huge issue with importing a distant local, due to contract restrictions with programming, then how is it allowed in a situation such as the former mentioned one? I know that there's always an explanation, but I simply feel that it's all a ruse to maximize profit for the station.

According to the FCC short markets that are missing say ABC can import from any market since their is no copy infringement on that network. What is incorrect in that story is Alpena MI WBKB shows Wheel of Fortune and so does WDIV. WDIV was not blanked out when the show was on being the import

 

[sam_gordon]

No in most cases the station has one PtOP. That signal feeds a master control (away from the station) and the signals are dispersed to each provider. It is very rear that OTL is used

I'm sorry, I don't understand. Are you saying all the stations in one market feed one central receive site and the signals are then dispersed to each provider from there? How are the station signals getting to that receive site? Fiber? Who paid for the installation?

I've been to DirecTV's local pickup site many times. One station feeds them via fiber. The rest are picked up OTA, then passed over fiber to Denver.
I have a general idea where Dish's local pickup is.
I know TW ran fiber to all the stations.
All the other (and there are over 100) cable companies use OTA.

Maybe our market is the exception.

 

[harshness]

I don't think it's an FCC thing though. As I understand it (and yes, I can be wrong), it's the stations contracts with the program producers that prevent distributing to other markets. Maybe the stations that are imported to short markets have clauses in their contracts that allow it.

Releases are a dodgy beast. Most of them are signed with the assumption that the distribution is necessarily limited. My talent knows that their show probably won't leave the local Comcast system (although some does make it to neighboring cable systems). We've lost access to some talent because they knew that we shared content outside of our easy reach (including YouTube) and I'm talking about community access programming. We recently had to wave off with the Ty Curtis blues band that we've been recording on and off since he was 15 because they were working on their own video project and they didn't want the confusion.

 

[harshness]

I'm sure there are plenty of small businesses willing to take over and act fairly and ethically.

Do you really suppose that these small potatoes operators can compete? There's pressure from upstarts importing subchannels as their main channels that wasn't so prevalent in the past. There's also lots of competition from the Internet for the advertising dollars that used to be a lock. Even as radio and newspapers struggle, TV isn't exactly raking it in.

If you think advertisers are willing to pay the same money for eyeballs that they'll never see in person, you're nuts.

 

[RONZ]

I'm sorry, I don't understand. Are you saying all the stations in one market feed one central receive site and the signals are then dispersed to each provider from there? How are the station signals getting to that receive site? Fiber? Who paid for the installation?

I've been to DirecTV's local pickup site many times. One station feeds them via fiber. The rest are picked up OTA, then passed over fiber to Denver.
I have a general idea where Dish's local pickup is.
I know TW ran fiber to all the stations.
All the other (and there are over 100) cable companies use OTA.

Maybe our market is the exception.

No what happens is as follows:
1) a PtOP is installed at the studio feed of each TV station
2) the PtOP signal from that station is sent to master control by Fiber. (All stations in the market has a PtOP and send there signal by fiber to master control)
3) Say DTv takes the signal by fiber and either uplinks or sends the signals with all channels multiplex either using fiber or by uplinking to like Hugh's net. The uplink is not the DTv signal uplink to your 99 degree satellite
4) The uplink center takes the signal and sends it out to the satellite spot beam where you receive it

If your stations transmitter would fail you DTv signal would remain on Satellite
Denver is also done this way. In most cases master control combines signals for uplinks from several DMAs within the state. Ohio master control located in Columbus mux the entire state. This is distributed to both cable and satellite providers
TW in your case may be the one that links the Fiber to master control. In MI Comcast owns the PtOP at each station. I would be surprised if OTL is used. Dish uplinks near Denver. They do not pick anything OTL Back on 911 it was Dish that back fed the cable companies to keep the NY DMA up and running for the stations that went dark that day

 

[sam_gordon]

No what happens is as follows:
1) a PtOP is installed at the studio feed of each TV station
2) the PtOP signal from that station is sent to master control by Fiber. (All stations in the market has a PtOP and send there signal by fiber to master control)
3) Say DTv takes the signal by fiber and either uplinks or sends the signals with all channels multiplex either using fiber or by uplinking to like Hugh's net. The uplink is not the DTv signal uplink to your 99 degree satellite
4) The uplink center takes the signal and sends it out to the satellite spot beam where you receive it

If your stations transmitter would fail you DTv signal would remain on Satellite
Denver is also done this way. In most cases master control combines signals for uplinks from several DMAs within the state. Ohio master control located in Columbus mux the entire state. This is distributed to both cable and satellite providers
TW in your case may be the one that links the Fiber to master control. In MI Comcast owns the PtOP at each station. I would be surprised if OTL is used. Dish uplinks near Denver. They do not pick anything OTL Back on 911 it was Dish that back fed the cable companies to keep the NY DMA up and running for the stations that went dark that day

So each station has multiple fiber feeds leaving it? One to service Dish, one to service Direct, multiple to service cable (to say nothing about OTA)?

And what is PtOP & OTL?

ETA: Do I believe that is being done? Sure. Do I believe that is being done in all markets? No.

 

[RONZ]

So each station has multiple fiber feeds leaving it? One to service Dish, one to service Direct, multiple to service cable (to say nothing about OTA)?

And what is PtOP & OTL?

No each station has one PtOP Fiber signal that gos to master control that feeds the services

 

[harshness]

No what happens is as follows:
1) a PtOP is installed at the studio feed of each TV station
2) the PtOP signal from that station is sent to master control by Fiber. (All stations in the market has a PtOP and send there signal by fiber to master control)
3) Say DTv takes the signal by fiber and either uplinks or sends the signals with all channels multiplex either using fiber or by uplinking to like Hugh's net. The uplink is not the DTv signal uplink to your 99 degree satellite
4) The uplink center takes the signal and sends it out to the satellite spot beam where you receive it

This is NOT typically what happens. Typically, the signals from all stations are gathered somewhere where a receiving station has been jointly constructed by DIRECTV and DISH and each carrier picks it up and multiplexes it from there. A good portion of the time, it ISN'T a fiber feed; it is indeed an OTA antenna feed to a bank of tuners. While the OTA feed could be replaced with fiber from each station (it is largely a matter of money), I don't think that is universally how it is done.

If you think about it, it isn't reasonable to have an uplink for each broadcast facility as that eats a lot of RF frequencies and effectively takes away your ability to multiplex.

Both DIRECTV and DISH have their own backhaul facilities built into their satellite constellations.

 

[RONZ]

This is NOT typically what happens. Typically, the signals from all stations are gathered somewhere where a receiving station has been jointly constructed by DIRECTV and DISH and each carrier picks it up and multiplexes it from there. A good portion of the time, it ISN'T a fiber feed; it is indeed an OTA antenna feed to a bank of tuners. While the OTA feed could be replaced with fiber from each station (it is largely a matter of money), I don't think that is universally how it is done.

If you think about it, it isn't reasonable to have an uplink for each broadcast facility as that eats a lot of RF frequencies and effectively takes away your ability to multiplex.

Both DIRECTV and DISH have their own backhaul facilities built into their satellite constellations.

This is not what is done in the Midwest. The concern is with interference like storms knocking out the RF signal from the source. Are you saying every DMA is uplinked locally ? Back haul feeds would use a lot more bandwidth regardless. The MC center in Southfield Mi and the one in Columbus Ohio pulls signals only by PtOP's In Traverse City Mi the distance between channels transmitters would not allow for all of the signals to be good at one spot

 

[harshness]

This is not what is done in the Midwest. The concern is with interference like storms knocking out the RF signal from the source. Are you saying every DMA is uplinked locally ?

I'm saying that it isn't your way or the highway.