I'm probably obsessing (again) ..winter install?

[tastim]

Run the cable however you wish.... if all the cable and the mount is there, I can almost guarantee you that the technician will be so happy to get out of the cold so quickly that he will gladly use your setup regardless of whether or not the ground is iffy. Offer to sign off liability (which only exists by law, having a Dish grounded serves almost no purpose other than keeping insurance company inspectors from wrongfully blaming house fires on it). Dish would still be responsible for damages if that is what the inspector decided, but the technician would have his C.Y.A.....If your house never catches on fire, none of this will ever be an issue anyway.

Some of the guys here seem to believe that all technicians take all these "rules" as seriously as they do.... I'm not going to trivialize the "rules" here... I've already made it clear before how silly I think some of them are... just giving you the facts. The majority of installers are not like the ones posting in these forums. Good or bad... whatever.... they'll get your install done... and with your own wiring and mount, you will be happy with your system.

 

[dishcomm]

Run the cable however you wish.... if all the cable and the mount is there, I can almost guarantee you that the technician will be so happy to get out of the cold so quickly that he will gladly use your setup regardless of whether or not the ground is iffy.

Some of the guys here seem to believe that all technicians take all these "rules" as seriously as they do.... I'm not going to trivialize the "rules" here... I've already made it clear before how silly I think some of them are... just giving you the facts. The majority of installers are not like the ones posting in these forums. Good or bad... whatever.... they'll get your install done... and with your own wiring and mount, you will be happy with your system.

yes rules are just that ..rules.. however, some rules are ok to just ignore . Some are highly recommended Some are sacrosanct. BUT........There is no rule that will prevent an install from getting done...As long as there is a good LOS, a secure mount and a good chance of a happy customer, Dish will let a few things slide.
For instance in th pat couple of weeks I hqve been to older homes without updated electrical systems. On one homes there was a ground wire at the meter. But there were electrical problems . On one of them, there was a ground of an outlet inside the house that was contacting the HOT in an outlet. The result was I had 65 volts at the d-mark.....The other house had no ground wire at all. IN both cases I wrote out a statement on the W/O that stated thge customer was well aware of the conditions and each signed off on any claim against Dish, my employer or myslef.

 

[Liquidforce88]

on grounding..... so if you run the cables form the dish into an attic for example and ground to an electrical fixture or other acceptable ground ,you cannot do the job unless that ground is feet or less from the cable penetration?....What do you do with these jobs that must be resched or canceled due to these restrictions?...Ho do you do business with these restrictions?
I also have never seen restrictions barring white cable.....I just don't buy white cable. It adds another possibility of playing 20 questions with a high maintenence individual who wants home decorating expertise as well as a satellite tv

You do the job with in the restrictions.

You don't run the wires from the Dish into the attic and ground there, because in our area there is never an acceptable ground in the attic.

You plan your cable entry into the residence so that you can be with in the 5' rule.

I have very few customers that just refuse to allow the work to be done within the rules, so it's not an issue.

 

[dishcomm]

You do the job with in the restrictions.

You don't run the wires from the Dish into the attic and ground there, because in our area there is never an acceptable ground in the attic.

You plan your cable entry into the residence so that you can be with in the 5' rule.

I have very few customers that just refuse to allow the work to be done within the rules, so it's not an issue.

That's wonderful.. So for example,if I have a 2 story slab built house where the dish has to go on the opposite side from the d-mark and there is a structured wiring panel in the laundry room upstair(electrical outlet in panel) in your jurisdiction I'd have run the cables to the d-mark and then back to the attic entry point, then to the wiring panel?. This is instead of going from the dish directly to th epanel which is an acceptable NEC ground point because the outlet within the panel is obviously grounded?...That's like three/four times as much cable. I have to pay for that cable. Hopefully you don't have the expenses I do. If you do, how can you make any money?...This job I am using as an example, would take at least 300 feet of cable. It's 2100 SF house. 300 feet of cable as opposed to the 75 ft I used. Sorry but I could not justify those inds of nonsensical rules and accpet that revenue loss.
Someone out where you work is pulling your chain... Seems like they are doing thsat just be an a$$hole.
BTW if you are going ot ask if I could go from the dish to the d-mark on the other end of the house then stright up to the attic and ot that panel ,the answer is now. The LR has a two story vaulted ceiling right to the rafters. So there's no attic on that side of the house until you get over the front bedroom over the garage.

 

[OoTLink]

Why can't people have normal houses where the electrical panel and cable demarc are practically right next to each other? Every house I've ever seen was like that, including both of the ones we own. What the heck is up with your builders out there?!

And who puts a structured wiring panel in the laundry room? If you have the door closed, both machines running, and no fan (or the fan is off), that room's gonna get pretty damn humid.

You guys have some weird ass home builders XD

 

[dishcomm]

Why can't people have normal houses where the electrical panel and cable demarc are practically right next to each other? Every house I've ever seen was like that, including both of the ones we own. What the heck is up with your builders out there?!

They do. It's just at times the dish has to go on the opposite side of the house for LOS reasons. . The older homes are the ones with the telco interface on the other side from the electric meter. And in my Primestar/D* days we had to run hardwire telco to the receivers. Talk about adding a bunch of extra time at no additional pay!!!!!....

 

[OoTLink]

Ouch! Yeah it's funny - when our dish install was done on this house the rookie guy wanted to mount it on the chimney clear on the other side of the house. For whatever reason, I had figured out with my nerd intuition that atop the garage (right above the demarc for everything) would be a great spot even consider LOS.

Turned out it was just fine, and I have yet to see any issues with neighborhood trees (but there aren't any *that* tall).

Sorry to hear bout ya'll with grounding issues *shudder* Took me about 6 months of on-and-off (or more) to get mine properly grounded, if only because the lazy installer unhooked the cable line, plugged the DP34 into *that* grounding block, and left the cable company's wire laying on the ground. When I decided to get cable internet they made a big fuss about that and told me about how that grounding block was theirs *rolls eyes* *sigh* All that fuss for a lousy part.

It was annoying enough I got them to come out and fix it - because the principle of the whole thing. Though, it took me even longer yelling at comcast reps to get them to run a home run for the cable modem. (Yes, I was willing to pay for it, and IIRC it cost about $30 *sigh*)

Worked great for the ~year I had them before I decided to go back to DSL ($60 after tax for 8mbit cable internet vs $34 for 3mbit DSL).. I know, better bang for the buck, but I didn't have the extra bucks anyway.

 

[dishcomm]

Ouch! Yeah it's funny - when our dish install was done on this house the rookie guy wanted to mount it on the chimney clear on the other side of the house. For whatever reason, I had figured out with my nerd intuition that atop the garage (right above the demarc for everything) would be a great spot even consider LOS.

Turned out it was just fine, and I have yet to see any issues with neighborhood trees (but there aren't any *that* tall).

Sorry to hear bout ya'll with grounding issues *shudder* Took me about 6 months of on-and-off (or more) to get mine properly grounded, if only because the lazy installer unhooked the cable line, plugged the DP34 into *that* grounding block, and left the cable company's wire laying on the ground. When I decided to get cable internet they made a big fuss about that and told me about how that grounding block was theirs *rolls eyes* *sigh* All that fuss for a lousy part.

It was annoying enough I got them to come out and fix it - because the principle of the whole thing. Though, it took me even longer yelling at comcast reps to get them to run a home run for the cable modem. (Yes, I was willing to pay for it, and IIRC it cost about $30 *sigh*)

Worked great for the ~year I had them before I decided to go back to DSL ($60 after tax for 8mbit cable internet vs $34 for 3mbit DSL).. I know, better bang for the buck, but I didn't have the extra bucks anyway.

I find it incredible how on sme occasions a cable tech shows up to the house and won't run a new homer to the cable modem just because they see that original cable in question is being used for satellite or sometheing else. Then the bastards try to take ownership of the interior wiring of a private residence.
I arrived on site to do a new connect. There was a cable guy there hooking up cable internet. He sees me waiting there and finishes up by putting a terminator lock on the interface box. Thus trying to prevent me from getting to the customer owned cable.
I ask the guy what he thought he was doing. He said locking up Time Warner property. I said Bullsh!t. Your're being an a$$hole. He puffed his chest out I told him to run along before he got himself into trouble. I told him I was going to remove the lock. He sad that was illegal. I was like ,you must be friggin kidding me. He walked to his truck and while he could see me, I removed the lock and tossed it right into the customers outdoor trash can. problem solved.
What makes no sense to me is what if the cable compnay had arrived to do an internet install and there was NO cabling in the house, woudl they have tried to charge you for wiring that?...Somethng stinks here.

 

[tastim]

I find it incredible how on sme occasions a cable tech shows up to the house and won't run a new homer to the cable modem just because they see that original cable in question is being used for satellite or sometheing else. Then the bastards try to take ownership of the interior wiring of a private residence.
I arrived on site to do a new connect. There was a cable guy there hooking up cable internet. He sees me waiting there and finishes up by putting a terminator lock on the interface box. Thus trying to prevent me from getting to the customer owned cable.
I ask the guy what he thought he was doing. He said locking up Time Warner property. I said Bullsh!t. Your're being an a$$hole. He puffed his chest out I told him to run along before he got himself into trouble. I told him I was going to remove the lock. He sad that was illegal. I was like ,you must be friggin kidding me. He walked to his truck and while he could see me, I removed the lock and tossed it right into the customers outdoor trash can. problem solved.
What makes no sense to me is what if the cable compnay had arrived to do an internet install and there was NO cabling in the house, woudl they have tried to charge you for wiring that?...Somethng stinks here.

I heard about this one Dish installer that was so upset at what the cable tech was trying to pull while he was there that somehow the cable drop mysteriously got way too short to use and lost its fitting..... one of life's mysteries I guess!

 

[Quantum]

You 'heard' about this one Dish installer... ?

Ya, I went to a high-rise a while back where in the cable/sat closet there were no labels on any of the cables, whatsoever. The manager told me that a while back either the cable or sat guy got so pissed at the other he cut them all off. Well, that just makes it hard for everyone.

Although, 'redeploying' the cable drop sometimes makes sense.

 

[cparker]

Ok, well... problem solved, I think. Saturday evening my son and I sunk a new 8 foot ground rod right below where the dishes should mount. Sunday morning I dug 125 feet of (shallow) trench to bury a #6 copper line and bonded that new ground rod to the house electrical service ground rod. I had to put it on the other side of that darn sidewalk I mentioned, but the sidewalk is coming out in the spring. So I also ran a piece of #6 in a big crack in the sidewalk (at a control joint... the sidewalk is pitched and heaved so the crack was big enough) and brought that to the house where any ground wires from the dish install could be attached.

This was a lot of work, but I think this satisfies code (I did a TON of reading on how to properly add additional ground rods), gives the dish installer a valid ground point, and it makes me feel better.

 

[mikethedishguy]

You 'heard' about this one Dish installer... ?

Ya, I went to a high-rise a while back where in the cable/sat closet there were no labels on any of the cables, whatsoever. The manager told me that a while back either the cable or sat guy got so pissed at the other he cut them all off. Well, that just makes it hard for everyone.

Although, 'redeploying' the cable drop sometimes makes sense.

Went to customer that I had Installed about 1yr ago for a service call. When I arrived I found the customer a little upset at the cable company. It seems that they had had cut the lines to the upstairs rooms. When the customer confronted the cable guy he said the wire on the house belonged to the cable company. The wire in question was Gray with DISH Network printed on the casing every 3".

 

[Liquidforce88]

That's wonderful.. So for example,if I have a 2 story slab built house where the dish has to go on the opposite side from the d-mark and there is a structured wiring panel in the laundry room upstair(electrical outlet in panel) in your jurisdiction I'd have run the cables to the d-mark and then back to the attic entry point, then to the wiring panel?. This is instead of going from the dish directly to the panel which is an acceptable NEC ground point because the outlet within the panel is obviously grounded?.

Ok the QAS in our area says: You are not an electrician so you can not modify the electrical ground, another words I am not allowed to open up the outlet and tie to the ground wire. You also can not prove that the outlet in that panel is grounded back to the D-mark. Thus that outlet is not an NEC approved ground point.

...That's like three/four times as much cable. I have to pay for that cable. Hopefully you don't have the expenses I do. If you do, how can you make any money?...This job I am using as an example, would take at least 300 feet of cable. It's 2100 SF house. 300 feet of cable as opposed to the 75 ft I used. Sorry but I could not justify those kinds of nonsensical rules and accpet that revenue loss.

Ok Dish has an allowed amount of cable for an install. In this situation you would exceed the allowed amount and be allowed to collect monies from the customer. I work for a company that provides all the install materials so I personally don't worry about the amount of cable used.

Also thankfully in our area slab houses are very rare, and when you run into them they are almost always very small houses. The houses around here are basement, or crawl space built. The electrical panel is either in the basement, the crawl space if it is a 4'er, or on a power pole next to the building. Most of the houses are single story ranches, modulars, trailers, or old farm house colonial types. We don't have the crazy houses that you seem to deal with.

...Someone out where you work is pulling your chain... Seems like they are doing that just be an a$$hole..

Nope it's code, and everybody interprets it differently.

...
BTW if you are going to ask if I could go from the dish to the d-mark on the other end of the house then stright up to the attic and to that panel ,the answer is no. The LR has a two story vaulted ceiling right to the rafters. So there's no attic on that side of the house until you get over the front bedroom over the garage.

That would be a suck job to do.

 

[dishcomm]

Ok the QAS in our area says: You are not an electrician so you can not modify the electrical ground, another words I am not allowed to open up the outlet and tie to the ground wire. You also can not prove that the outlet in that panel is grounded back to the D-mark. Thus that outlet is not an NEC approved ground point.




Ok Dish has an allowed amount of cable for an install. In this situation you would exceed the allowed amount and be allowed to collect monies from the customer. I work for a company that provides all the install materials so I personally don't worry about the amount of cable used.

Also thankfully in our area slab houses are very rare, and when you run into them they are almost always very small houses. The houses around here are basement, or crawl space built. The electrical panel is either in the basement, the crawl space if it is a 4'er, or on a power pole next to the building. Most of the houses are single story ranches, modulars, trailers, or old farm house colonial types. We don't have the crazy houses that you seem to deal with.



Nope it's code, and everybody interprets it differently.



That would be a suck job to do.

You most ceratinly can determine whether or not an outlet is grounded. First, it's code. Second all you have to do is look for the ground screw. If it's got a bare wire attached to it, it's grounded. And in order to be grounded, it must be grounded to the d-mark. Attaching to the ground screw in an outlet is not modifying the electrical system in any way. In fact we're encouraged to do this if there is not another place to go.
Yes the limit of cable is 200 ft. We charge for more than that. But the added tme and then having to buy more is a PITA. Especially if it's not necessary to run that much cable. Which in this area, thankfully it is not.
The two story slab built house with trus system roof is very popular here. We have lots of new construction here And that is the way hopuses are built. I'd say 75% of all homes less than ten yrs old are built on slabsha includes homes as large as 4,000 SF..No kidding. there are two story homes here with walkout basements. Essentially that is a three story slab built home. Roof pitches here are very steep ..It's not only an architectural issue. It's a prestige thing. The higher end homes have 14-12 or 16-12 pitches... Just to give a point o freference a 12-12 pitch is 45 degrees..14-12 is about 54 degrees..In other words there are very few roofs one can walk without safety harnesses or other devices.