I Need Help, Installing a Titanium ASC1

[shanklej]

7-21-2016
I sure hope I don't cause anyone to have a heart attack laughing at my foibles.
Took the cover off the Lnbs.
Ran the dish west until it was pointing below the roof. At that point I attempted
to set the Hardware limits. Ventura 24" Maxi. There is a round bar that can be
moved by unscrewing the set screw. So I moved it as far right as it would go and
the dish wouldn't move. Took another look and realized that there was a small
black button on the right. Reset the sliding bar back about 1/8" beyond the
black button. Now the dish is moving. I saw no way to hardware set the East
Limit. On the East side I am not to worried as the dish can not get that close
to the ground. About 20". The West side is another story. The dish can be
run into the ground on that side. So the only way I see to solved the problem
is to Set software limits.......

The other problem.... I ran the dish to the straight up position. Put a piece of
tape at the 6:00 o'clock position. Ran the dish as far to the East as I dared.
The tape at this point was about in the 8 o'clock position. I moved the lnbs
to the 9:00 position.
Came back in the house and pointed the dish at 99 and the highest signal
I got was 45. Gave up at that point as I spent 3 hours in over 90 heat.....

 

[Titanium]

Good morning. Sounds like you have been busy this morning!

Reference this link for venture hardware limit setting:
http://www.venturemfgco.com/uploadfiles/image/file/setting-your-limit-switches.pdf

From your description in the post above, it would appear that the feedhorn was not installed at the correct rotation initially. This is why we did not lock on to any channels yesterday. I'm not sure that you have set the feedhorn reference correctly as you do not indicate whether they receiver transponder was set to vertical or horizontal when making this adjustment.

As we discussed on the phone yesterday, when the receiver is set to a vertical transponder, is the probe inside the feedhorn pointed at the 6/12 o'clock position (your reference tape)? For reference the probe would be straight up-and-down if the dish was parked at the highest point of the arc.

When the receiver is set to a horizontal transponder, is the probe inside the feedhorn pointed at the 3/9 o'clock position (rotated 90 degrees away your reference tape)?

 

[shanklej]

Two bad things I did.
1. forgot to look up the Ventura sight you mentioned. I downloaded the info found there.
The reference is a slightly different model but I assume the general directions are
the same. Am I understanding what I am reading there. Hardly, I will read it several times
more and take it fully off the dish as that looks like how Ventura did it.
Number 1 in the Ventura limit switch adjustment article is confusing. Certainly
the gearbox is attached... I doubt I am going to be able to follow Venturas instructions.
I am out in the yard and have no way to extend or retract the Actuator.
They are using terms I am not familiar with. It would help if the picture labeled all
these terms.

2. I ran the dish to straight up. There I attached the tape. It is so high I could not see
the probe (1st mistake). (2nd mistake) Did not check for horizontal. But I think I
lucked out on that one as I had the receiver at 99 which you set to horizontal.
I am going to have to drag out a heavy 10 ladder to see the probe.(Ugh)

So the result of my 90 degree day was a total failure.
I am not looking forward to tomorrow.
You help is very much appreciated.

 

[Titanium]

No need to push it too hard! We are here when you are ready.

To clarify to make sure we are the same page...

1. With the receiver set to a vertical polarity transponder, the front panel display of the ASC1 will have a pointer on the right side of the vertical polarity line and the skew # will display : 45°. The probe inside the feedhorn will be pointing at the tape mark you previously placed on the polar axis of the dish.

2. With the receiver set to a horizontal polarity transponder, the front panel display of the ASC1 will have a pointer on the right side of the horizontal polarity line and the skew # will display : -45°. The probe inside the feedhorn will be pointing 90° angle from the the tape mark you previously placed on the polar axis of the dish.


The reason that we are checking that the feedhorn was properly referenced and installed with the vertical probe aligned to the polar axis of the dish is so you do not need to reset and save a different skew angle on each satellite and polarity as you program the satellite arc. Verifying the feedhorn was properly installed many add extra work now, but it will make finding and programming each satellite much easier! Here is a PDF of the Chaparral feedhorn template that is used to initially install a feedhorn so the servo rotation is properly set so not to over rotate (see page 5).

 

[primestar31]

Two bad things I did.
1. forgot to look up the Ventura sight you mentioned. I downloaded the info found there.
The reference is a slightly different model but I assume the general directions are
the same. Am I understanding what I am reading there. Hardly, I will read it several times
more and take it fully off the dish as that looks like how Ventura did it.
Number 1 in the Ventura limit switch adjustment article is confusing. Certainly
the gearbox is attached... I doubt I am going to be able to follow Venturas instructions.
I am out in the yard and have no way to extend or retract the Actuator.
They are using terms I am not familiar with. It would help if the picture labeled all
these terms.

2. I ran the dish to straight up. There I attached the tape. It is so high I could not see
the probe (1st mistake). (2nd mistake) Did not check for horizontal. But I think I
lucked out on that one as I had the receiver at 99 which you set to horizontal.
I am going to have to drag out a heavy 10 ladder to see the probe.(Ugh)

So the result of my 90 degree day was a total failure.
I am not looking forward to tomorrow.
You help is very much appreciated.

It isn't a race, you are only competing against yourself. Take a day off, maybe even the whole weekend! Relax a little!

Just keep thinking off and on of what still needs to be done, read some more, and try to let your brain sort it out in terms you feel you can understand.

It's far simpler than what it SEEMS to be to you right now. Many people unnecessarily allow their minds to over-complicate it, and then their brain shuts down on them and refuses to work. This is not unique to you!

You WILL be successful, just keep thinking THAT!

 

[shanklej]

Yeh. One thing I am not a quitter. Will get it or take a sledge hammer to
the dish !!!!! Thanks for the encouragement.
This site has been discombobulated for several days.
Thanks Satelliteguys for getting it fixed.

 

[FaT Air]

They are using terms I am not familiar with. It would help if the picture labeled all these terms.

List them or post the whole sentence and highlight the offending word. I think we could clarify.
If you're using a polariser style feed. the servo on the top of the feed should be in the 11 o'clock position, in relation to the dish, when the dish is aimed it's highest. (Due south)
Good idea, though, to check the probe position. I've seen some change probe position as they age. Also seen that the opposite polarity doesn't move the probe a true 90 degrees.
Maybe consider a new style LNBF ?? V & H Probes are 'set' into fixed positions. Don't think you'll loose any performance with a Titanium PLL. No servo to wear out.

The 'tape' mentioned above could also be placed on the bottom. You aim the probe to it or 180 degrees from it. (away)
If it wasn't mentioned, I find it beneficial to mark the probe location(s) on the outside of the feed. (No guessing then)

 

[shanklej]

Thank you for you reply Fat Air.
The lnbs are the same ones when you helped me set up the
dish years ago. Before the Uniden sq530 bit the dust I had an
excellent picture with the Linkbox 9000i on 55w. I now have the
Titanium ASC1 as my dish mover. On the Chaparral lnb I am
not able to see any probe as the metal is solid on the top. I'm
just going to set the software limits as I am not able to set the
hardware limits. I never go anywhere near the limits on the west
side as the house and trees are in the way. The actuator never
will hit the ground on the East side as it retracts fully at about 20"
from the ground. So to my understanding setting software limits
should be adequate. I can get the actual numbers listed on the
chaparral if that would help. Don't see any numbers on the Norsat.

Actuator terms -- Lead screw Nut, retract limit switch, adjusting rod,
stroke adjust rod, extend limit switch as requested.

Is this correct--- Finding the true south in Dunnellon Florida by running
the dish until the button hook is pointing straight up with a level.

 

[shanklej]

Thought I would add a few pictures of the LNBs and the actuator.
The actuator is on the east side of the dish. I would guess that it
is at about 58 to 55 degrees W.
I think the Lnbs are working fine.
Of course with the new ASC1 I don't know where I am at and the
signal intensity stays at about 45.
Before the Uniden SQ530 died I had a signal intensity in the 90s.`

 

[FaT Air]

My best guess is at 55W the Uniden was operating in the 'reverse polarity mode" or more likely, the servo is worn. 'Reverse polarity' is not really applicable today with the digital signals. It was required BITD when there were only 24 'channels' on a satellite. One 'this satellite' channel 1 was H pol. On the satellite next to it, channel 1 would be V pol. And continue this 'fashion' all across the arc.

I hope you haven't tuned the dish, elevation or azimuth, as the only 'failure' was the Uniden mover. The dish itself is still 'on the arc'.
I'm sure the servo is on it's way out (how old is it) resulting in the 'normal' settings of +45 and -45 (or whatever numbers the Uniden and ASC use, useless. The probe may be at 45 degrees from the required placement using the 'normal' numbers.

This procedure is less labor intensive, but I believe, more time consuming to finish. I'd also say it has a chance of failure to produce the desired result.
What I'd do is try to find 55W with the ASC, but carefully using both polarities selected via the ASC. Or switching polarity while the dish is stationary, between small bumps E or W. I'd be looking for any bumps in indication of Q. Once I see one I'd try to zero in on it. This would be by adjusting the skew with the ASC, and by bumping the dish slightly E & W. If this doesn't produce results,
I'd be manually adjusting the skew at each pause of bumping the dish position. I'd do this while V and H polarity is selected.
From here you'd have to program all satellites to the polarity numbers discovered once you find, and maximize 55w Quality on both polarities.

Think this would be the way to go -This is what I'd do --
More physical work, but the results will be faster in the end.

IIRR your monopole feed support would make it highly unlikely to be able to see into the throat of the feed. And is totally enclosed when completely 'put together'. (maybe post a picture, or 3, of it for others to see.)

But if you could, remove the feed from the scalar, to see 'down the throat' of it.
First mark the feed so that when you replace it in the scalar, you get the same length of feed protruding on the dish side of the scalar. Leave the scalar mounted, but remove the feed from it. Should only be one set screw.
Select V polarity on the ASC using the preset (factory) skew number.
I'd then mark the position the probe is in on V polarity on the exterior of the feed. Place a second mark opposite from the first.
Make these so that they distinguish this mark as Vertical.
(one or the other will be visible from the ground when the feed is replaced)
I'd then change polarity to Horizontal and look for a 90 degree displacement of the probe. If not 90 degrees, adjust the skew via the ASC until it is 90 degrees, and mark this position also.
Also remember this new skew number, as all satellites will have to have this setting.
FWIW: if it's impossible to get a 90 degree displacement, the Vertical skew number will also have to be changed, and the V probe position changes. In this case remember both H and V skew numbers. Remove the previous V pol marks and replace with this new position.
One you've have the probe moving 90 degrees when selecting opposite polarities, it's time to put it back in the scalar using the marks to set the depth and also the polarity. Aim the V marks as close to the polar top, and/or bottom of the dish. Could confirm this by moving the dish to 'look' due south. (Is the bottom mark straight down?)
At this point, it should be a no brainer re-acquiring 55W and the rest of the arc.
FWIW: May need to bump the dish and wait a few seconds for the receiver to respond vs. 'sweeping' the dish E or W.

Hope that all makes sense, good luck.

 

[shanklej]

Thank you Fat Air for responding.
The dish is still on the arc. I have kept my hands off that.
I have twisted the lnbs trying to get the signal intensity to raise.
Age of actuator is 6 years.
Age of LNBs is 6 years

Definitions:
servo - motor on the actuator - light usage on a 10' dish.
bitd?
iirr?
fwiw?

 

[KE4EST]

bitd?
iirr?
fwiw?

BITD = "Back in the Day"
IIRR = "If I remember right"
FWIW = "For what it's worth"

 

[gpflepsen]

View attachment 118851 Thought I would add a few pictures of the LNBs and the actuator.

Not sure where the dish is pointed to in this pic, but the leaf coverage could be significant in cutting your signal levels.

 

[waylew]

servo - motor on the actuator - light usage on a 10' dish.

Servo motor is the blue box on the feed horn between the LNBs,it turns the probe in the feed horn for horizontal or vertical.
And, at least by the picture, you need to trim some branches.

 

[Titanium]

When the dish is at the top of the arc, what angle is the long side of the servo? Provide the angle as the hours on a clock face. With the dish positioned at the top of the arc, the long side of the servo case should be pointed at approximately 11/5 o'clock angle.

In one of the photos, the servo angle looks to be 9/3 o'clock, but hard to tell the photo position reference.

 

[dougruss]

Print and Cut Out. Paste (Glue) it to a peice of cardboard. Use to set.........

 

[shanklej]

Thanks guys for responding,
The servo is a small black box.
I have set it at the 11:00 o'clock angle.
Started at the extreme east position and backed up way past 58 and 55 W.
I changed polarities from vertical to horizontal. Nothing. Is it possible I need
to change the servo by 180 degrees????

Since I can't find a service tech anywhere near me, I am going to put
the Uniden back in service until I can get a signal on 58 or 55. Then
reinstall the Titanium asc1 and ask for Brians helps.

 

[gpflepsen]

It has been pointed out twice that from your pictures it appears that you have tree blockage of the dish. That is enough to cause your issues. Please check that.

 

[shanklej]

It has been pointed out twice that from your pictures it appears that you have tree blockage of the dish. That is enough to cause your issues. Please check that.

 

[shanklej]

There are no trees blocking line of sight on the East side of the
dish. I was out there before 7:00 o'clock in the morning and the bushes
threw a shadow on the dish. The bushes are not anywhere near
the light of sight.
Thank you for helping.