How Dish's 1080p is going to work...

[Hall]

I am hearing that receviers chipsets have a hard time upconverting to 1080p which is why its not an option at this time.

I mentioned this in another thread, but unless Broadcom has updated their BCM7411 and 7412 chipsets, they do not support 1080p. Now, I do recall reading about a BR or HD-DVD player that uses that same chipset but originally only supported 1080i, then later could support 1080p with a firmware update. Maybe Broadcom's information online is out-of-date ?

Also, and I said this earlier...

I think that means "pass-through" then, eh ?

 

[cloudy]

I guess we could start a new thread debating the whole Component issue.
I think it would be a long thread. It's confusing to most people, and there are always conflicting reports between whether the tv itself has the limitations, or the actual Movie hard copy has the limitations.

 

[8bitbytes]

Here is some specific info concerning component video:

Video signals require bandwidth for transmission

1920x1080 requires at least 260mhz bandwidth

Component cables are available for purchase today that support up to 4.5ghz in bandwidth.

The component video limitation is your in equipment.

 

[Hall]

Video signals require bandwidth for transmission

1920x1080 requires at least 260mhz bandwidth

Component cables are available for purchase today that support up to 4.5ghz in bandwidth.

End of story

 

[rglore]

Looks to me like the receiver is checking that the TV is HDCP compliant and will accept 1080p. That limits it to HDMI as component inputs cannot do HDCP. Go to diagnostics menu and do an HDMI test and it will show if your TV is HDCP capable. Mine also shows it's not able to take 1080p but I know this is not true.

 

[Hall]

Yes, the receiver does do this. Remember when Dish put out a technical bulletin to installers telling them to always use HDMI/DVI when possible because someday component connections would be stripped down to 480p ? That was all HDCP-related.

As for your receiver saying your TV isn't capable, it's possible that your TV doesn't implement HDCP exactly the way your receiver expects to see it or it's possible that the receiver is in error. A firmware/software update on one or the other may be able to resolve it. Has your TV had any firmware updates ?

 

[dlsnyder]

My biggest question is whether 2.35:1 OAR movies will be shown on E*'s 1080p VOD system open matte or OAR??

If they go open matte I will be ordering exactly 0 of the 1080p movies.

:up +1

 

[tomcrown1]

First off must consumer cannot tell the difference between 1080I or 720P so this news will be a big yawn.

Second if Dish charges $6.99 it will not be a big revnue producer--charge $2.99 than dish will celan up.

lastly the reason for sales of Blue-Ray not being hot is that most consumer can not see a difference between a DVD upconverted to 1080I and blue ray 1080P thus no need to buy that expensive BlueRay movie. Once price on the purchase of BlueRay Movies goes down to $15.00 than BlueRay will be hot.

 

[Hall]

Second if Dish charges $6.99 it will not be a big revnue producer--charge $2.99 than dish will celan up.

How does that ($6.99) compare to DirecTV's and other cableco's HD-VOD or HD-PPV prices ?

 

[8bitbytes]

First off must consumer cannot tell the difference between 1080I or 720P so this news will be a big yawn.

Second if Dish charges $6.99 it will not be a big revnue producer--charge $2.99 than dish will celan up.

lastly the reason for sales of Blue-Ray not being hot is that most consumer can not see a difference between a DVD upconverted to 1080I and blue ray 1080P thus no need to buy that expensive BlueRay movie. Once price on the purchase of BlueRay Movies goes down to $15.00 than BlueRay will be hot.

Don't forget that most consumers don't care about the small difference they perceive when the player costs $300 or more.

If someone sells a BD player for $99, BD will take off.

 

[rad]

How does that ($6.99) compare to DirecTV's and other cableco's HD-VOD or HD-PPV prices ?

DirecTV HD PPV is $4.99, SD PPV is $3.99.

 

[hammerdown]

...Here is how its going to work..

100 subsribers will try to order the 1080p VOD.
25 of them have hdmi hooked up.
15 of them have a 1080p display.
10 of them will be happy with the downrezzed bitstarved "1080p" non-oar logo'ed picture and surround sound.
Dish will get 90 calls to customer service to refund thier money for the VOD event.
Charlie will call it a success and everyone will be fooled again.

 

[BuddyBoy]

I mentioned this in another thread, but unless Broadcom has updated their BCM7411 and 7412 chipsets, they do not support 1080p. Now, I do recall reading about a BR or HD-DVD player that uses that same chipset but originally only supported 1080i, then later could support 1080p with a firmware update. Maybe Broadcom's information online is out-of-date ?

Also, and I said this earlier...

You're missing several important points.

1) Almost all HD movies and most HD scripted TV shows are mastered at 1080p24 (used to always be shot on film, now 24fps HD video is used too). The 24fps frames are pulled down to 60i using 3-2 pulldown.

2) On the receiving end, once the 60i fields are decoded, a video processor can reassemble the pulled-down fields back into 24Hz progressive frames using inverse 3-2 pulldown. This is what a good TV or video processor does.

3) The 7412 by itself can't drive your HDMI output. There has to be a chip downstream of it to implement the scaling to 480p/720p/1080i that you can select in your receiver's menu. According to other posts on this forum, that chip is a Broadcom BCM7038.

So it is totally unnecessary for the MPEG-4 decoder (the 7411/7412) to support 1080p. It just had to decode the 1080i sent by Dish. Downstream of the 7412 is a Broadcom BCM7038, which implements reverse 3-2 pulldown among its many other functions. I can't find any documentation that says it supports 1080p output, but if it can support reverse 3-2 pulldown on an incoming 1080i signal, then it most likely supports 1080p out its HDMI interface.

Many of us today are watching NATIVE 1080p from Dish broadcasts. Just because they send a channel in 1080i doesn't mean that that's what's contained in the signal. The signal actually contains duplicated fields from a 1080p24 source, and these progressive frames can be fully recovered at the receiving end to give you NATIVE 1080p today.

 

[tomcrown1]

100 subsribers will try to order the 1080p VOD.
25 of them have hdmi hooked up.
15 of them have a 1080p display.
10 of them will be happy with the downrezzed bitstarved "1080p" non-oar logo'ed picture and surround sound.
Dish will get 90 calls to customer service to refund thier money for the VOD event.
Charlie will call it a success and everyone will be fooled again.

Thanks I needed that

 

[JimMcC]

There's no way in hell I'm going to pay $6.99 per movie. But at least this is a start of something good(I hope).

 

[8bitbytes]

... the downrezzed bitstarved "1080p" non-oar logo'ed picture and surround sound...

Have you watched the "I Am Legend" 1080p download yet?

 

[tman1991]

hmm still no 501 either.

My receiver does 1080p passthru and my DLP will accept native 1080p wonder what it will look like.

HDMI diagnostics show that my connection is 1080i, which it is cause there is no p yet

 

[tman1991]

Yeah its funny to see people with HD sets with no speakers or receivers. I've had 5.1 since 1997. I can do 7.1 but a) no real input sources cept Blu and b) no where to put side speakers

 

[jacmyoung]

Have you watched the "I Am Legend" 1080p download yet?

Good question!

When D* comes up with its 1080p PPVs, the price will be similarly around $6.99. The 4-hour window will kill this thing. We have already stopped ordering HDPPVs since the 24-hour limit kicked in.

But for $2.99 discounted price I will order it once, with some good planning before hand.

 

[Space Signal]

Are your TV's Hdmi 1.3? What is the 622 hdmi 1.2? Is the 722 hdmi 1.3?