Hopper Poll

[radiator65]

I am undecided. I was excited until the facts came out. I just can't see it right now for what I want: 2 Hoppers, 1 Joey. It would be $99 upgrade fee, $199 for 2nd Hopper, and a Dishin' It Up 2 year extension when I am not currently under contract. $300 is more than I want to spend to lease equipment especially when the "A" customers and new customers could get the same setup for $199. Then we have the $7 fee for the 1st Joey. I would probably jump at $200 but $300 puts me in a 2 year contract and I do not like some of the things I have read about Dish/ESPN. Not complaining just explaining my vote.

 

[dare2be]

Not attempting to shut the door. I know better than to think I'll stop anything.

That was just a joke to try to lighten the mood...

I also know better than to think the objections raised here have any real chance to have an effect on Dish. But as they say, your chance of winning the lottery is next to nothing, but if you don't play, it's just nothing. At least now, if Scott's right about Dish monitoring this forum, I know they are at least aware of the objections and my reasons for not adopting.

 

[Stargazer]

They won't drop the price unless they see a really low adoption rate then I am sure they will think twice. I don't see a low adoption rate just for the simple fact that their promotion gives up to $30 off per month for a year. I can see a lot of churn though once the promotion and contract ends though.

I think the fees will hurt some but I also think there will still be many that will get the Hopper Joey system due to the fact that it is the latest and greatest and an improvement to what we have now. There are some that will save some money because they put their duo's in single user mode. I am personally going to wait to see what kind of bugs are in the units, wait for the networking of both Hoppers and see if the upgrade pricing drops a bit as well. For now I am happy with what I have but intrigued by the HJ. The pricing of the upgrade and fees does not encourage me to do the upgrade. Perhaps that is what Dish wanted, to do it to prevent existing subs from doing it. I think they need them to do it to lock subs into a contract and lower churn. Something like this at the right pricing/fee structure can help a lot with the churn.

 

[MikeD-C05]

They won't drop the price unless they see a really low adoption rate then I am sure they will think twice. I don't see a low adoption rate just for the simple fact that their promotion gives up to $30 off per month for a year. I can see a lot of churn though once the promotion and contract ends though.

I think the fees will hurt some but I also think there will still be many that will get the Hopper Joey system due to the fact that it is the latest and greatest and an improvement to what we have now. There are some that will save some money because they put their duo's in single user mode. I am personally going to wait to see what kind of bugs are in the units, wait for the networking of both Hoppers and see if the upgrade pricing drops a bit as well. For now I am happy with what I have but intrigued by the HJ. The pricing of the upgrade and fees does not encourage me to do the upgrade. Perhaps that is what Dish wanted, to do it to prevent existing subs from doing it. I think they need them to do it to lock subs into a contract and lower churn. Something like this at the right pricing/fee structure can help a lot with the churn.

The 922 obviously had a very low adoption rate,since they had no problem pulling it off the market . After the 922 debacle I would of thought that DISH would of released the hopper with working software, that accomplishes all the "promised" features: Ota support, two hoppers seeing each other in the same house,etc.. I think that the hopper will have a lower adoption rate than DISH thinks it will. At least for current subs ,who have a lot of personal history with their many ,many assorted DISH FEES. After seeing the money you have to spend with the Hopper/Joeys ,to have hd on a second and third hd tv, many will choose to step back and wait on upgrading. Now new 1st time subs won't know any difference in terms of FEES ,when they get a hopper and a couple of joeys. But for the rest of the under 14 million DISH subs ,who do know of the DISH FEES, I can see many of them not upgrading.

 

[Stargazer]

I agree. I think most of the people that will get the Hoppers and Joeys will be new customers. Not all new installs will get them though because I am sure that some will not want a DVR and some will be referred from others which will want some of the ViP receivers that have lower fees if they are told what they pay on their monthly bill. People that do not understand the technology like we do will look at the price more than the technological advances unless the retailers explain it well.

How can they make this the default receiver when there is no option without a DVR without reverting back to the ViP receivers? Then if a customer wants to upgrade to HJ then they have to swap all the receivers out because they won't allow mixed equipment. Maybe Dish does not plan on phasing out the ViP receivers after all or maybe they plan on shutting off DVR functionality in the HJ to those that don't want it or coming out with a Hopper compatible receiver with no DVR.

 

[sailhome]

Until Thursday, I was ready to exchange my VIP system for a 2 Hopper 2 Joey setup and pay the additional fees. A whole house, coordinated HD DVR system, with 6 tuners (9 during prime time) would be perfect for me. Then I read “At product launch. Hoppers will not be able to communicate with each other but this functionality is an upcoming feature.” That one line moved me to the undecided group until “this functionality” is reality. Higher fees plus upfront costs and a two year contract are not worth betting on what “soon” means.

 

[cosmo_kramer]

Want the latest and greatest - go Hopper and pay fees that are in line with most everyone else out there.

This is the type of statement that really has me confused about this fee structure, probably moreso with regard to potential new subs than existing ones. Publicizing this technology to attract new subs is great, but if the fees you end up getting hit with are just "in line" with other providers, then you have to make it more attractive in other ways. If those fees were lower, thus lowering the monthly bottom line, it would definitely make Dish more attractive. As someone said earlier, you could reduce your programming to make up the difference, but Dish probably doesn't care because unlike the programming charges, they are getting 100% of the fees.

Personally, I have no problem with the $99 upgrade charge. I would be getting new hardware and my cabling would be configured to work with it. I would have no problem with the $4 per month whole-home fee. It's definitely the fact that the first Joey is not included, requiring me to pay $7 per month for a 2nd 722 TV that's currently included that is keeping me on the fence. So, for me the question becomes, is it worth it to pay $7 per month to get that TV in HD??

 

[Scherrman]

I agree. I think most of the people that will get the Hoppers and Joeys will be new customers. Not all new installs will get them though because I am sure that some will not want a DVR and some will be referred from others which will want some of the ViP receivers that have lower fees if they are told what they pay on their monthly bill. People that do not understand the technology like we do will look at the price more than the technological advances unless the retailers explain it well.

How can they make this the default receiver when there is no option without a DVR without reverting back to the ViP receivers? Then if a customer wants to upgrade to HJ then they have to swap all the receivers out because they won't allow mixed equipment. Maybe Dish does not plan on phasing out the ViP receivers after all or maybe they plan on shutting off DVR functionality in the HJ to those that don't want it or coming out with a Hopper compatible receiver with no DVR.

Did anyone say this was going to be the DEFAULT receiver? Obviously the customer still has to be qualified to see what receiver configuration best suits them. The Hopper system is going to be the premium set up though and the one everyone is going to be pushing. Dish wants everyone to have a DVR because they stay with Dish longer. It makes sense to me. It will not be the default system though.

 

[sparc]

Did anyone say this was going to be the DEFAULT receiver?

scott indicated that Dish wants everyone on the Hopper/Joey. So, it very well could be at some point. Maybe in a few years as it's slowly phased in. This system saves Dish money in a lot of ways like installing and less equipment. It isn't a premium setup.

Should be interesting to see how they'll accomplish this with much higher lease fees.

 

[lparsons21]

scott indicated that Dish wants everyone on the Hopper/Joey. So, it very well could be at some point. Maybe in a few years as it's slowly phased in. This system saves Dish money in a lot of ways like installing and less equipment. It isn't a premium setup.

Should be interesting to see how they'll accomplish this with much higher lease fees.

It should be easy to make the Hopper the default install, even for a single TV setup. Put Hopper in, disable those features that the customer didn't want (like DVR). Then when customer wants to upgrade to DVR, switch it on. Same for SD. Want to set another TV in it, add a Joey and you're good to go.

As to the lease fees, well they are higher than Direct's by $1/unit, but they are at the lowest lease fee on the scale of E*'s lease fees. From the outside looking in, it doesn't seem to me that things are awry with this offering.

In fact, if I wanted to change to Dish on 3/15 and pay a huge ETF, over 2 years I would save considerable money and have a better for me installation.

 

[OV_HDFan]

I voted undecided for two reasons. 1. The lack of OTA on release. I have been an early adopter on many Dish products, and the one thing I have learned is if the feature doesn't exist when you get it don't expect it to happen. 2. Everyone links Dish to the 2 room receiver w/ $0 fee for second room. It more closely matches the cable companies offerings. I was hoping that 1 Hopper 1 Joey solution would finally be the economical 2 room solution. I have been following all the threads since the "Hopper Chat" and am suprised that noone has mentioned the vaporware Sling Receiver that was supposed to work with the 722K or 922 w/sling adapter to do everything that the 1H1J does without fees.

 

[JM42]

This is the type of statement that really has me confused about this fee structure, probably more so with regard to potential new subs than existing ones.

It's all a shell game to some degree. For new business they are probably better of from a marketing perspective lowering the advertised price of the package via the promos. By the time someone sees the equipment fees they are already on the hook at some level. Doing it that way definately gives them more flexibility, they can switch gears at the end of the quarter and no one blinks. If they start mucking around with the equipment fees we all know what kind of wrath they get.

 

[Scherrman]

scott indicated that Dish wants everyone on the Hopper/Joey. So, it very well could be at some point. Maybe in a few years as it's slowly phased in. This system saves Dish money in a lot of ways like installing and less equipment. It isn't a premium setup.

Should be interesting to see how they'll accomplish this with much higher lease fees.

It's going to be their go-to set up similar to how the 722k is the go-to receiver now. They certainly want everyone to put the Hopper in but they are not automatically going to default customers to it.

 

[MikeD-C05]

So as far as the poll goes about 73% of people are disappointed or undecided about upgrading to the hopper. Only 26% can't wait for it. Doesn't sound very promising for DISH subs adopting the new system. I think price is proving to be the sticking point . DISH needs to reconsider the price of the first Joey and include it with the hopper and or decrease the price of all Joeys to down to $5.00. Either way it would make it more attractive to all concerned if it was a little cheaper than what you have with the Vip series of dvrs ,211ks etc. At this point it looks like DISH will have as low an adoption rate as the 922 had , and possibly as bleak a future as it had too.

 

[Stargazer]

I think the adoption rate will be higher for the HJ than it was for the 922 due to the fact that it has PTA, a third tuner along with other added functionality and improvements. It would make a good alternative to the 722 and without the Joeys a few Hoppers will be cheaper than a few 722's (722s: 10+7=17 vs Hoppers: 6+17=23). If they do not add the functionality later on that they say they are then I think that will hurt the adoption rate a bit but I can't see them not adding content sharing among two Hoppers while charging the extra $4 for it.

However, I think this will attract more new subs than existing subs vs. the past due to the extra $11 that the customers will see. I am sure they will look for other options at that point if they discontinue the ViP receivers at some point in the future and want to go with HJ exclusively due to the higher fees. New subs are comparing rates with other companies while existing subs are comparing rates to what they are paying with the same company now with the new offering and wondering if what they are getting is worth the extra dough which prompts to look at other options out there. When fees go up, people start thinking.

Also, even if Dish did drop the fee of the first Joey or something to get the monthly fee down, what's not to say that they will get you under a commitment then later raise the price back up or make up for it somewhere else? Some think Dish made up for some programming increases by raising the secondary outlet fees a few years back as that is pure profit.

I think they know that they are in line with what cable has to offer at the price point and instead of choosing to keep the price lower they chose instead to offer better hardware and functionality than the competitors which sometimes means it is still cheaper if you don't need to pay for DVR fees for two cable boxes but just for one on Dish instead. What is going to hurt Dish is when the competition eventually catches up and does the same thing unless they can stay a step ahead. I think that is why they want to do the LTE network to do bundling. They know that is going to be the only true way to stay competitive in the future.

 

[MikeD-C05]

I think the adoption rate will be higher for the HJ than it was for the 922 due to the fact that it has PTA, a third tuner along with other added functionality and improvements. It would make a good alternative to the 722 and without the Joeys a few Hoppers will be cheaper than a few 722's (722s: 10+7=17 vs Hoppers: 6+17=23). If they do not add the functionality later on that they say they are then I think that will hurt the adoption rate a bit but I can't see them not adding content sharing among two Hoppers while charging the extra $4 for it.

However, I think this will attract more new subs than existing subs vs. the past due to the extra $11 that the customers will see. I am sure they will look for other options at that point if they discontinue the ViP receivers at some point in the future and want to go with HJ exclusively due to the higher fees. New subs are comparing rates with other companies while existing subs are comparing rates to what they are paying with the same company now with the new offering and wondering if what they are getting is worth the extra dough which prompts to look at other options out there. When fees go up, people start thinking.

Also, even if Dish did drop the fee of the first Joey or something to get the monthly fee down, what's not to say that they will get you under a commitment then later raise the price back up or make up for it somewhere else? Some think Dish made up for some programming increases by raising the secondary outlet fees a few years back as that is pure profit.

I think they know that they are in line with what cable has to offer at the price point and instead of choosing to keep the price lower they chose instead to offer better hardware and functionality than the competitors which sometimes means it is still cheaper if you don't need to pay for DVR fees for two cable boxes but just for one on Dish instead. What is going to hurt Dish is when the competition eventually catches up and does the same thing unless they can stay a step ahead. I think that is why they want to do the LTE network to do bundling. They know that is going to be the only true way to stay competitive in the future.

Yes they are in line with cable in their fees. Now here is the thing. People who go to satellite do so because it is CHEAPER than cable. So yes they are maybe $10.00 less than cable on their whole house dvr fees. But once again I say it: people pick DISH over cable or DIRECTV over price. Why hit them with a group of made up fees that then makes their total bill higher than the competition?

 

[navychop]

Actually, I went with Dish from my cableco because of service. The cableco PQ was constantly deteriorating, and I'd call them, have to meet them at my house (time off from work) even though the problem was outside the house, watch them tweak something or repair a broken or faulty cable, get a better signal, and then invariably watch the PQ slide down again. Lather, rinse, repeat. And you think Dish has poor CSRs? My cableco CSRs were incredibly clueless. And the cableco kept stringing us along, promising digital "soon." I'll take a Dish "soon" any day over my old cableco's "soon." The last straw was when the cableco announced that we'd have to pay for future service calls, even if the fault was theirs and lay outside my home. And to this day, I'll bet Dish doesn't have half the fees that cableco did.

The fact that we stumbled upon a $9.99 per month for the first year deal (2001) just meant I went with Dish over DirecTV.

 

[JM42]

Actually, I went with Dish from my cableco because of service. The cableco PQ was constantly deteriorating, and I'd call them, have to meet them at my house (time off from work) even though the problem was outside the house, watch them tweak something or repair a broken or faulty cable, get a better signal, and then invariably watch the PQ slide down again. Lather, rinse, repeat.

Exactly the same here. At the time "free" up front equipment and install wasn't the norm, so up front costs were not trivial.

To this day I have fewer problems than my neighbors with cable, and that is after the neighborhood was "upgraded."

 

[rdinkel]

Just wish Dish would make it easier for those of us who prefer to do our own installs, etc. Have always done this, but it usually takes a needless fight. If we are a Pub Supporter and have been a SatGuys member for years, and our present Dish account shows no tech visits required--EVER--then they should let DIRT folks set us up to have the new equipment shipped to us.

 

[Gbo]

I voted no due to no ota...... which I would love to see have qam support. I pay for my locals from the cable company (because of internet) and would like to be able to dvr the channels not offered by Dish.

Next I don't think I can justify the extra 7.00 for tv2. It is free now and should not change due to the new box. It was one of the main reason I switched from d. I can see paying for a 3rd or 4th one.

Oh well, dish seems to have become money hungry just like d*. I will just stay with my 722.