Hopper Duo compatible with SW64 system?

[MrGus]

I have a VIP612 that is dying. I heard the Hopper Duo is compatible with the old SW64 and Dishes? Is this true?

Yes I know the new antenna and switch system is better but I don't need all those features and my cabling is installed in walls and conduits under the floor. I don't think the installers are going to replace cabling for free in that situation. I am willing to do that myself as I installed it in the first place but I understand current Dish policy does not allow DIY installs. My SW64 has always been inside so it's not exposed to temperature extremes - long lifetime although I did replace the power supply.

(Please note, I have worked in the broadcast engineering and satellite uplink industry for years. I am quite capable of a self Dish install.)

 

[tjboston5676]

I have a VIP612 that is dying. I heard the Hopper Duo is compatible with the old SW64 and Dishes? Is this true?

Yes I know the new antenna and switch system is better but I don't need all those features and my cabling is installed in walls and conduits under the floor. I don't think the installers are going to replace cabling for free in that situation. I am willing to do that myself as I installed it in the first place but I understand current Dish policy does not allow DIY installs. My SW64 has always been inside so it's not exposed to temperature extremes - long lifetime although I did replace the power supply.

(Please note, I have worked in the broadcast engineering and satellite uplink industry for years. I am quite capable of a self Dish install.)

Should be fine. The hopper duo basically uses the same tech as vip 612 and 722.

 

[dishrich]

I don't think the installers are going to replace cabling for free in that situation.

Why WOULD it have to be replaced??? If it works now, I don't see why it wouldn't work with any new switches/LNB's.
Also, if you are only running 1 receiver, why would you even have something like an SW64 in the first place?

But to answer your main question - I do NOT think it's going to work. The Duo is actually NOT "the same tech" as your old receiver & only has 1 LNB input for both tuners & is expecting a "stacked signal" - which your old switch is NOT capable of providing. At best, you're only going to get 1 tuner functioning on it.

Quite frankly, the newer LNB's/switches are more reliable than those old SW64's ever were & they do not run nearly as hot as those...but suit yourself.

 

[MrGus]

Why WOULD it have to be replaced??? If it works now, I don't see why it wouldn't work with any new switches/LNB's.
Also, if you are only running 1 receiver, why would you even have something like an SW64 in the first place?

But to answer your main question - I do NOT think it's going to work. The Duo is actually NOT "the same tech" as your old receiver & only has 1 LNB input for both tuners & is expecting a "stacked signal" - which your old switch is NOT capable of providing. At best, you're only going to get 1 tuner functioning on it.

Quite frankly, the newer LNB's/switches are more reliable than those old SW64's ever were & they do not run nearly as hot as those...but suit yourself.

The new Dish systems need an RG6 cable rated to 3ghz. Older RG6 such as my Belden 9116 is only rathed to 1ghz or 2ghz. Now cable length does come into play so in some cases a lower bandwidth cable may still work.

I have a VIP722 and a VIP612, both with dual tuners. In addition, prior to last month HDTV locals were on the 129 satellite with the cable channels on 110 and 119. So we have six antenna feeds and four receiver inputs, two each.

Sounds like a good reason for an SW64 switch to me.

 

[dishrich]

I have a VIP722 and a VIP612, both with dual tuners. In addition, prior to last month HDTV locals were on the 129 satellite with the cable channels on 110 and 119. So we have six antenna feeds and four receiver inputs, two each.

Sounds like a good reason for an SW64 switch to me.

In all fairness, you never mentioned that you had that 722 in your OP...

Which actually brings up another issue - DISH will NOT let you mix (any) Hopper & (any) dual-tuner VIP receivers on the same account; they have to (both) be one type or the other - & it's been this way since they started offering Hopper receivers.
The ONLY exception - they WILL let you mix any 211k/z/Wally receivers on any Hopper account & you can have up to 2 of those.

 

[dishrich]

The new Dish systems need an RG6 cable rated to 3ghz. Older RG6 such as my Belden 9116 is only rathed to 1ghz or 2ghz. Now cable length does come into play so in some cases a lower bandwidth cable may still work.

Also something you should be aware of - while this is partially correct, on any Hopper systems, the 3ghz requirement ONLY applies for the (single) cable run between the (host) receiver, & the switch/LNB. The thin-clients (Joey's) do NOT require this, as all their communication is via MOCA frequencies - which your existing cables will be more than adequate. (actually even good quality RG59 even works fine for the Joey's in a pinch, as long as the runs are not really long!)
So if you were to say, upgrade to an Hopper 3 w/any #'s of Joey's, at worst case the ONLY coax you might have to replace, would in fact be the one that feeds the main H3 receiver - just something to think about.

 

[MrGus]

Also something you should be aware of - while this is partially correct, on any Hopper systems, the 3ghz requirement ONLY applies for the (single) cable run between the (host) receiver, & the switch/LNB. The thin-clients (Joey's) do NOT require this, as all their communication is via MOCA frequencies - which your existing cables will be more than adequate.
So if you were to say, upgrade to an Hopper 3 w/any #'s of Joey's, at worst case the ONLY coax you might have to replace, would in fact be the one that feeds the main H3 receiver - just something to think about.

The problem is my cables from the roof go through a conduit LB into the side of an abandoned fireplace chimney*. Then they go under the floor to my equipment closet. Is the installer going to deal with that? I doubt it. They typically hack the cable down the outside wall and drill a hole into the house. I am more than willing to run new cable but will a now mandatory Dish installer work with me on that?

I have also read they will not climb onto a roof. If a standard extension ladder can't reach direct;y to the dish, they won't do the install. So then what? I have also heard they won't allow a Hopper with a VIP. Why? It costs them nothing if they still support the VIP series, which they do.

* I don't want to be flamed with code violation posts over this as I was previously on another forum. There is no longer a fireplace for that Chimney. It was removed for a legacy projection TV which is now a flat screen. Of course I would never run cables down an active chimney

 

[That American Girl]

The problem is my cables from the roof go through a conduit LB into the side of an abandoned fireplace chimney*. Then they go under the floor to my equipment closet. Is the installer going to deal with that? I doubt it. They typically hack the cable down the outside wall and drill a hole into the house. I am more than willing to run new cable but will a now mandatory Dish installer work with me on that?

I have also read they will not climb onto a roof. If a standard extension ladder can't reach direct;y to the dish, they won't do the install. So then what? I have also heard they won't allow a Hopper with a VIP. Why? It costs them nothing if they still support the VIP series, which they do.

* I don't want to be flamed with code violation posts over this as I was previously on another forum. There is no longer a fireplace for that Chimney. It was removed for a legacy projection TV which is now a flat screen. Of course I would never run cables down an active chimney

The problem is my cables from the roof go through a conduit LB into the side of an abandoned fireplace chimney*. Then they go under the floor to my equipment closet. Is the installer going to deal with that? I doubt it. They typically hack the cable down the outside wall and drill a hole into the house. I am more than willing to run new cable but will a now mandatory Dish installer work with me on that?

I'll try to answer this is 3 parts cause my brain ain't braining..

For this first part, if that conduit runs along enough of the run, maybe fish enough coax through for all the runs you'd need to be there when they do the install? Instead of running it out and down the house with a thousand little clips? I mean, if they get there and it's already ran...

 

[MrGus]

I'll try to answer this is 3 parts cause my brain ain't braining..

For this first part, if that conduit runs along enough of the run, maybe fish enough coax through for all the runs you'd need to be there when they do the install? Instead of running it out and down the house with a thousand little clips? I mean, if they get there and it's already ran...

Yes but it won't be an approved cable, they don't use customer supplied materials, yada, yada, yada. You know how it goes. I went through this with Voom way back then.

 

[That American Girl]

I have also read they will not climb onto a roof. If a standard extension ladder can't reach direct;y to the dish, they won't do the install. So then what?

I think it's more situational for that. DISH does have trucks with higher ladders. The CSR can request this while setting up the truck roll.
Or page Spiderman.

I have also heard they won't allow a Hopper with a VIP. Why? It costs them nothing if they still support the VIP series, which they do.

The 2 will not work together. VIP is just VIP, AND THE REST are XiP, ZiP, etc.
Just like an Android cable won't work for an Apple device.

 

[MrGus]

I think it's more situational for that. DISH does have trucks with higher ladders. The CSR can request this while setting up the truck roll.
Or page Spiderman.


The 2 will not work together. VIP is just VIP, AND THE REST are XiP, ZiP, etc.
Just like an Android cable won't work for an Apple device.

I have heard they will? But nevertheless, I have five 300 series dishes mounted. Three are abandoned but all wired. Put a new DishPro+ dish and use two of the old dishes for the VIP622 with seperate SW21 or SW64 switches. No different than you having a Hopper and your neighbor having a VIP722. Perhaps I can explain that to a manager at Dish and get an exception?

In my case it's not just a ladder issue, the dishes are sort of inaccessible due to a new house addition. You can work on them but I doubt OSHA would approve. But I can do it.

 

[dishrich]

I have heard they will?

OK, technically-wise they WILL work together & I'm sure there's several ways to do this, via separate dishes, switches, etc...

But now let's get back into reality - DISH will NOT, in fact, override their computer activation system to force it to authorize your "unique" receiver situation - full stop! As I already explained to you, someone at DISH made the executive decision to disallow these mixed receiver setups when they came out with the 1st Gen Hoppers WELL over a decade ago, & that has not changed since. If you would look thru the umpteen posts on this site (& the other site where you're posting these same questions for an answer you like) you would see better folks than you have tried & failed to do this.
But hey - maybe you might figure out the big secret to getting this done - please let us all know when you are successful, as others here will probably want to try it too.

Also another thing I'm going to bring up that you probably won't like - what are your plans in the (nearer) future when DISH decides to shut down ALL the VIP receivers & you are forced to go to one of the Hopper systems? Actually DISH will no longer even newly activate Vip211k/z receivers, so I shouldn't have even listed those in my previous post above. (this just happened fairly recently, so forgive me on my minor memory lapse)
Honestly that day is going to get here sooner than later, so even if you keep persisting in what you're really looking for, it's going to end up being all for naught - just sayin'...

 

[MrGus]

You don't need to get authoritative with me or anyone else. I am just asking some questions here and on another site to come up with a plan. Do you always take the first bit of advice you get or do you seek additional opinions before making decisions? My posts are not argumentative, just asking questions and trying to understand the new equipment and policies from Dish. It's interesting that the 'other site' contradicts some of the claims made here and vice versa. Hence one needs to weigh the responses.

I am well aware of the fact that some day, probably soon, Dish will no longer support the VIP series and shut them down. They have done it before with the move from MPEG2 to MPEG4 for HD and now I understand recently for SD as well. DirecTV has done similar receiving equipment retirements. At one time in the early HDTV days I had both Dish and DirecTV active accounts. So be it.

I am not a techno neophyte here. I am an accredited EE who has designed and built many broadcast facilities including uplink centers for 40 years now. What I don't know are the current Dish options and how the new technology, which I have avoided upgrading to, works together. I am not a DBS installer and you seem to know a lot more about this area than I do.

If my posts irritate you in some fashion, then just ignore my posts.

 

[HipKat]

Perhaps I can explain that to a manager at Dish and get an exception?

Nope.
The "computer" will not allow it.

 

[dishdude]

Just go with Wallys. You can buy them cheap online, avoid DVR fees and they'll work with your existing setup and Dish will allow them on the account with your old ViP. It's the closest thing to a 612 Dish currently offers.

 

[Tvland1]

Just to throw this in there,technically you can have a mix of hoppers and vip equipment if you're using the pay as you go account for Rv's.. I activated 3 hoppers 2's , 1 wally, 2 211k's and one 222k on my account ..Now this was back in April of 2021 and they are still all on my account working.I don't use my account much anymore only when camping where I don't have cell or wifi service but all receivers are still there as of last week

 

[dishrich]

Mr Gus - I guess I'm going to make 1 last attempt before I leave...since you mentioned the 722 you already have & how you're using it to download shows, why don't you just go on ebay & buy another 722 outright to replace the 612? Then you'll have 2 of the same receiver you really like & you won't have to make any wiring/dish changes. I just looked & they're all over the place, most at less than $100. Of course you do understand that any you buy are going to be used/refurbed...but you would get that if DISH actually replaces either of your current receivers.

 

[Bobby]

I just want to add this, my Hopper 3 is running on the same 100' RG-6 coax that I installed myself back in 1987. Dish had no qualms about using it.

 

[navychop]

Really depends upon the tech. I’ve had them on the roof. The day all that stops- well, probably not a concern. My setup is probably going to outlast Dish.