Hearst Television Inc. blacks out DISH customers in 26 markets

[ChadT41]

Dishdepot.com

 

[docdaddy]

Dishdepot.com

Thanks. Something in their description stood out:

Dual-Tuner USB OTA Adapter In Stock

For use with Hopper family and Wally Receivers. Incorporates local programming directly into the DISH Electronic Programming Guide. Dual Tuner functionality expected May 2017."

I haven't seen anything about that - will it require a different dongle?

 

[KAB]

Thanks. Something in their description stood out:

Dual-Tuner USB OTA Adapter In Stock

For use with Hopper family and Wally Receivers. Incorporates local programming directly into the DISH Electronic Programming Guide. Dual Tuner functionality expected May 2017."

I haven't seen anything about that - will it require a different dongle?

No. Dual tuner will occur with future software.

 

[FearTheVoices]

Just wanted say that guy that guy from dish or actor playing thr part on the black out local channel here in Boston is freaking me out. Guys has serial killer written all over him lol

 

[Troch77]

So Charlie used to pay for OTA integrated into 622,722,and I'm sure many more back when we had less Local disputes and and no real majority uses for OTA.

Now every month there are Locals being dropped, and he wants you to go OTA, But yet, took out every OTA MODULE out of all his receivers and now wants you to Pay $50-60 to add it?.

You guys don't see that as being just as sneaky as the networks tactics ?

If Charlie wants you to go OTA, than every market thats in a dispute right now, should be drop shipped an OTA module, not a POS plastic RCA antenna that dish probably got for Free through their SlingTV advertising deal.
And discounted or even be aloud to drop any such bogus Locals charges Dish itemized, Especially if you can't have OTA.

Samsung Galaxy S6 Active

 

[dare2be]

You guys don't see that as being just as sneaky as the networks tactics ?

Yes. It's one of the many reasons I have a receiver with a built in OTA adapter and a grandfathered DVR price.

 

[dare2be]

And discounted or even be aloud to drop any such bogus Locals charges Dish itemized.

Hope that is coming, will probably be after another round of contract disputes in order to get permission from the local channel owners to do so.

 

[Troch77]

Yes. It's one of the many reasons I have a receiver with a built in OTA adapter and a grandfathered DVR price.

I'm starting to think the same way...


Samsung Galaxy S6 Active

 

[Troch77]

Hope that is coming, will probably be after another round of contract disputes in order to get permission from the local channel owners to do so.

The Networks will never agree on that.
It would have to come from higher up.
And Dish would actually have to still carry them in order to be available To customers , and you know that won't happen.
He can't keep locals now, and we have been forced to pay for them for Years.



Samsung Galaxy S6 Active

 

[dare2be]

Well, the Flex Pack allows it, and it was probably years in the making.

 

[Troch77]

Well, the Flex Pack allows it, and it was probably years in the making.

Yep, But I bet most Flex pack subscribers also take Locals.

Samsung Galaxy S6 Active

 

[MikeD-C05]

Just wanted say that guy that guy from dish or actor playing thr part on the black out local channel here in Boston is freaking me out. Guys has serial killer written all over him lol

Especially since he is driving all over the country "Listening" to potential DISH victims. Perfect way to kill on the way and dump the bodies too.

 

[JosephB]

So where does that guide data come from? OTA or Dish? As I also have (and had) guide data for some of the sub channels (blocked or not) but not all.

So sorry if a repeat; just giving my observations

Guide data comes from Dish, over the satellite stream. They do not gather any guide data from the OTA signal at all.

It's Rovi not OTA data. And I have to think DISH has to pay for it when they are not broadcasting the station. In the past DISH did not, but this would be the second time it appears they are.

Dish has to pay for the guide data regardless of whether or not they are carrying the channels on satellite or not. The guide data disappearing when a channel is "off" Dish is simply a side effect of the fact that they "link" the OTA listings to the satellite channels in the backend. It makes it simpler for them to manage the thousands of channels that exist in the guide data.

I wonder if stations have to ask Rovi to withhold the data from Dish. Presumably Dish pays Rovi for the data, so I don't know if the station even has a say so. *IF* Dish just pays Rovi and the stations have no say, then it is/was Dish's decision to not to send guide data for OTA viewers.

The channels don't have a say, the guide data belongs to Rovi. The reason the guide data disappeared is that in the backend, Dish links OTA channels to the satellite channels so that they don't have to keep up with duplicates. It requires them to make changes in the backend, changes that probably aren't trivial to do. If they expect the outage to be short, like a few days, why bother. If it's going to be long and drawn out, then they'll make the change like they have now with Hearst stations.

If DISH used PSIP there would not be this problem and for whatever reason DISH doesn't want to use it. Perhaps it costs money to have that feature part of the tuner and DISH feels they are already paying for the guide data.
My thinking is the guide data is part of the agreement with the locals for OTA, which is the same guide data that DISH uses for the Sat channels. When the locals heartlessly yank the signal from DISH and it's viewers (Ok a little dramatic effect) the guide data goes for the Sat channels which means it isn't available for the OTA channels. For expected short disputes DISH may thinking it isn't worth paying the money and having the guide for each channel in the dispute. But if they think it will last awhile, they can make it much easier for those with OTA access, and it makes it that much less a factor having the locals involved off being in the favor of the locals. I believe this is the only the second time they have done it. That and separating out the locals seems like DISH is playing hard(er) ball with them.

Second part you're on the money. First part, though, about PSIP doesn't sound right. "enabling" PSIP on the tuner wouldn't cost money per se, but it would require investment in changes to the software on the set top boxes themselves to handle the data and integrate a second source of data. It's much easier to just link a satellite fed virtual channel's data into OTA. DirecTV has this same issue, from a different angle. They have hit a technical limit on how many OTA channels they can put in their guide stream, but to utilize another source would require significant software development.

 

[pattykay]

Even assuming they're paying Rovi, how much money are they saving but not utilizing the Rovi guide for a week?

I don't think it is necessarily the money, but rather the additional effort (and bandwidth usage) it would take to uplink the separate guide data for the OTA feed (instead of simply mapping down the guide data from the satellite-delivered channel) just to have to turn around and reverse that change only a few hours to a few days later. (Dish likely saves some bandwidth while the local channels are pulled, but that bandwidth is on spotbeams, while all of the guide data is on CONUS.) This is the most likely reason I can think of for why Dish doesn't make the effort for short disputes (or disputes that at least have a potential of being resolved soon) but may choose to do so for disputes that are expected to last a long time.

 

[pattykay]

The reason the guide data disappeared is that in the backend, Dish links OTA channels to the satellite channels so that they don't have to keep up with duplicates. It requires them to make changes in the backend, changes that probably aren't trivial to do. If they expect the outage to be short, like a few days, why bother. If it's going to be long and drawn out, then they'll make the change like they have now with Hearst stations.

We posted at the same time.

 

[bryanw20]

Yeah, the satellite providers should go out of their way to include the best OTA capabilities in their receivers in order to have more leverage in these disputes. If I ran Dish OTA capability would be included in every Hopper and I'd figure out how to have superb guide data and perhaps even an OTA PTAT. While many people can't get OTA ( we can't get all the OTA channels and have to move the antenna when we change channels) it would remove the blackout blackmail for many.

Btw - where to get an OTA dongle for my Hopper 3?

Dish Depot I think is the only store that has(had) them in stock, atleast a few weeks ago when I got mine.

Tivo had a great OTA guide & setup; and I do miss that with Dish; but I'm saving, err moving that money into my Dish bill instead & get way more channels than I did with Tivo.

I think Channel master makes an OTA DVR too, don't know much about the guide & visual appearance; but it's like a one time fee of $400.

So in my budget I'll have to live with Dish's occasional blackouts; it's just the way they do business.

 

[The Fat Man]

I'll admit, I laughed at your "heartlessly".
I find it hard to believe it costs money to use PSIP guide data simply because EVERY TV manufacturer includes it on their tuners. It doesn't matter if you buy the TV in California and move it to Florida, the PSIP guide data will follow whatever channel you tune in. So where does the money go?
Question two... so you think Dish is paying money to Rovi, the locals, or both to use the Rovi delivered guide? If they're paying the locals, I can understand (sort of) pulling the guide data down. If they're paying Rovi, I don't follow. That's what I was asking... do the locals tell Rovi "don't sell the data to Dish"? Can they? Even assuming they're paying Rovi, how much money are they saving but not utilizing the Rovi guide for a week?

Sam, it goes back to my point with you. PSIP only goes so far. Much shorter than Dish, Directv, and the Cable Companies have in their guides. I bet that will take up bandwidth to push, which simply isn't needed at most times. Hence, not cost effective.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using the SatelliteGuys app!

 

[Blackloz]

I'm still not quite clear on why Dish can't provide OTA guide data? My tv pulls in guide data for free, why would Dish pay the broadcasters extra for it? Who pays for the guide data that displays on my tv?

 

[AlaJoe]

OTA guide info is now back for WVTM 13 in Birmingham, yesterday it was just full of the "such and such removed NBC13" message, so, good on Dish for working on fixing the guide issue for OTA customers.

So I got my OTA dongle today and plugged it in about 4:00PM and here it is almost 8:00PM and I still do not have the guide data. At what point should it start showing up?

 

[Bobby]

So I got my OTA dongle today and plugged it in about 4:00PM and here it is almost 8:00PM and I still do not have the guide data. At what point should it start showing up?

Give it some time, it may take until tomorrow to populate...