HDTV the Last Two Years

[gunn55]

Boondockbill,

I totally agree with you 100%. In fact I am really sorry that I bought an HDTV. After this latest fiasco called Voom I have seriously thought about trying to sell my HDTV and buy a nice 36" SDTV until HDTV grows up. I have even thought of putting my HDTV in the garage for a few years and getting an SDTV in the meantime and going back to D or E. The V6.20 software made me come really close to doing this today. When I had D and my old SDTV I actually enjoyed watching TV. I didn't have any PQ problems and I never spent hours in the forums bitching and looking for fixes.

Oh man! You really got to get off the crack pipe.

 

[DarrellP]

Hahhahahhahahah.....v1.20 of the firmware is probably the best do far! Voom's SD is superior to E* and equal and some case a little better than D* IMO, just less SD channel options. You really enjoyed watching TV on a 36" SD.. hey come over I'll sell you mine! You want a 27" Sony Trinitron SD also? Yeah man I REALLY enjoyed watching stuff on thos TVs because of the soft blur and less detail I really enjoyed TV more!

Why would I watch CSI Miami in widescreen and at it's highest resolution when I can watch it cropped and everyone's face nice smooth and fuzzy? I mean that's stupid as hell, if you really love TV you'd want to see it at it's worst, everyone knows that.

Down boy, you're starting to catch the vurbano/darrellp fever.

 

[Dvlos]

Oh man! You really got to get off the crack pipe.

Or in his case, maybe it's time to consider getting ON it?

Down boy, you're starting to catch the vurbano/darrellp fever.

Ahh... I am fervent about my HDTV... you guys just keep adding fuel to the fire so to speak.. heh.

 

[DarrellP]

Ahh... I am fervent about my HDTV... you guys just keep adding fuel to the fire so to speak.. heh.

Yeah, a few sparks can fuel a wildfire. Hopefully we are lighting a fire under Voom's ass to improve things, as it appears they are doing. Slowly, but they are coming around.

 

[Dvlos]

The true test would be after they have people installed with WM9 modules and the dish upgrade (although technically they could probably do it with just mailing out Wm9 modules because it would take 10mps I think under WM9 to do what 17 mps under Mpeg2?)... if they want to keep b/w low for HD channels then they are just being evil.

 

[ram1220]

Dvlos and Gun55

If you are happy with HDTV and the labotamy called Voom then great for you. I for one have found that Voom has completely wrecked HDTV for me. You name any problem listed here in this forum and I have had it. Last month with the old software I had minimal gripes about the PQ. What did Voom do? They went and billed my CC 5 times for service. It's just one damn thing after another with these idiots. Then I was told I would have to wait 6-8 weeks to get a refund. The so called escalation Dept. still hasn't called me back and it's been almost 5 weeks. Every single time I turn around Voom finds another way to screw up. If V6.20 is the best released yet then why have I now lost 2 OTA channels that still show a 97 and 98 signal strength? Why do I still see pixelization on channels 251, 261, and 262? Why does my box lock up when it hasn't done it in months?
I will not go back to D or E for HDTV. At least not until HDTV has grown up. When I had my SDTV with D I had a great picture. Maybe you didn't but I did. Do I regret jumping into HDTV? Yes I do. For you it's great. For me it's not. So don't come off making me look like a fool for having an opinion. At least I tried HDTV and it's too bad Voom screwed that up. I may not agree with your opinions but I leave the personal attacks out of it.

 

[Dvlos]

This isn't a personal attack my friend, I am punching holes in your logic however, and that's at the core of a good debate/discussion isn't it?

I've read your list here of complaints against HDTV from your last post, and you spent several sentences talking about billing issues. Something has happened to Voom's database and they've been screwing up charges, if you've read some of the reports here, you should know that the "Escalation Department" will take forever. You have to call and have them credit you a free month, and remove the charges immediately, simultaneously calling your bank and disputing the charges. It's a little bit of work on your part that's why you call and demand a free month for your troubles. This has nothing to do with why HDTV the technology itself is bad, or what Voom shoots on your TV is necessarily "Bad".

You get pixelation, so do we all, Voom needs to raise their bitrate, and make it fixed not variable. We've talked about it here plenty of times, problem is I look at the glass and think it's half full, all VOom has to do is add a little more to the mix and we're almost there. Now D* and E* IMO they're glass isn't even half full, and the little bit of HD they have thrown in the mix has been done "unhappily" if it was up to them HDTV would still be in its infancy.

You are fixated on the half empty glass in front of you, my boxes never lock up anymore, is anyone else still having bad lockup problems? Could it be something with your house? Are you boxes on solid electrical connections (make sure you have a good ground, not open or missing for example), is your outside coax grounded? If you're getting heavy pixelation on 251/261/262 maybe it's something else? The pixelation I've talked about happens only during fast motions or camera pans, that's it.

A great picture on SDTV will never compare to a mediocre picture on HDTV my friend. When I slap my Voom channels on my SDTV even the HD ones, they all look as crisp and clean as SDTV gets, no doubt. DirectTV has (when I had them) a clean picture for SD, however I consider them the pro's of SD. Dish channels IMO are severly compressed and offer a PQ comprable to analog cable most of the time, I do not like their SD channels.

However there's SD, with its 480 interlaced lines that fit on your 4:3 television, and there's HD, with 2.25 times more lines of resolution than your standard TV, for a sharper more defined picture. Oh and guess what it's not 4:3 it's 16x9 for that added extra viewing area. Oh gee guess what almost all HDTV broadcasts are in Dolby Digital 5.1 surround.

If what's ruining HDTV isn't your eyes, it's your bills and your OTA, then why stop there? Voom is new to the satellite business, and HDTV in general is new and exciting leap in entertainment. I feel that this forum is excellent for helping US the fans of HDTV to iron out our own bugs so that the Voom community can grow and prosper. I voice my opinions too, as far as what I want to see from my Voom service, again so the Voom community can grow, and hopefully help HDTV "grow up" as you stated. The best thing that could happen is that Voom catches on like wildfire, then D* and E* have to make major HD changes and keep competing with HD, then we all win. The problem is you came complainging about your HDTV the unit itself, talking about how SDTV was better then you finish of saying you can't wait for HDTV to "grow up". See the inconsistent reasoning in your arguement?

So in summary:

- HDTV best picture for your TV.

- Voom, new. Messes up alot, lucky for us we can complain. We have Wilt who listens (although he's technical not billing really).

- We have this forum and can drawn on each's others experiences to improve our own.

- D* and E* still don't even come close to the HDTV offerings of V*.

- SDTV is still inferior to HDTV.

- Losing 2 OTA seems wierd, with the new upgrade I've gained 4 OTA channels 2 sub-channels and 2 new channels I never had. Also I am not able to get a channel because with the OTA scan it's picking it up at strength 93, and I can get channel 29 (50 miles away) channel on a semi-consistent basis. Losing OTA seems odd, could that RF aiming wizard help?

 

[seandudley]

You get pixelation, so do we all, Voom needs to raise their bitrate, and make it fixed not variable.

It seems to me that if done right, variable bit rate would be much better. If you have a fixed bit rate, when not much is going on, you are wasting most of the bandwidth on a channel that doesn't need it, and another channel may have lots of action and be pixilating because of the first channel taking bandwidth it doesn't need. I wish they could get variable bit rate working really well, I think that would be the best of all worlds.

 

[Dvlos]

THe problem is when not much is going on, or when when the compression process takes place it lumps colors and pixels into the same category to save space causing mosquito noise. Also when you are talking about pixelation between fast movements and fast camera pans that has to be caused by going from 10mbps to 16mbps to still have high detail on all the action and it's just not compensating. With all the HD Voom offers they probably have to do it this way, they may say they have room for 1 or 2 more HD channels but it must be with their current standards. To me variable bitrate only works well when the lowest drop is still pretty acceptable like a range of 19.xx - 13 mpbs perhaps. I think that Sean posted that the AVERAGE on Voom was around 12mbps right now. Just because it's in the background doesn't mean it doesn't have to be clear and as sharp as the guy's close up face in the foreground.

 

[DarrellP]

I agree with Dvlos, HD must be given a constant bitrate, the compression encoders are not good enough to discern fine detail and as a result, backgrounds often suffer from poor detail and "mushing" of the image.

 

[ram1220]

Dvlos,

I was referring to both comments made about me being/not being on crack. You made one of those. That was a personal attack.
You are right though, I didn't explain myself well enough. I really do want HDTV to survive and expand or "grow up" as I said. If I didn't I wouldn't have spent the money on an HDTV and ordered Voom. But I have had Voom since March 10. In that time I have watched maybe 3 whole movies on Monsters. I find nothing that I like on the other Voom originals. Never mind the fact that they repeat everything so much. I find myself watching the premium movie channels but I find that the content on those channels is played over and over again. And the same with Discovery HD.
I will agree with you that an HDTV picture is much better than a n SD picture. No discussion there. But I find that an SD signal looks terrible on an HDTV. That's why I said that I wish I hadn't gotten into HDTV yet. Not until it grows up. I feel that at this time I would be much happier watching TV on an SD television. I had a good picture with D. In a few years when there is more HD programing then I won't ever think of having this discussion with you.
I agree with you on a lot of what you post here. But on this topic I will just have to agree to disagree with you. But I hope I cleared up a little more about why I wouldn't mind going back to SDTV.
As for my problems with Voom, there are just too many to mention and I'm too tired to list them all. Let me just say that I've had them all. The billing fiasco last month just about did it for me. Now this month they raised my bill to get more taxes out of me. According to the state of Texas they are not supposed to be collecting them. I am really trying very hard right now to hold myself back from cancelling.

Bob

 

[Dvlos]

Sean just posted something regarding the June/July double billing. Be patient man, if you've had tons of frustrations you need to look into getting credits if it's legitimate, it will give you some piece of mind. You're talking about SD looking ugly on a 65" there's just nothing that's going to fix that man, when you stretch and expand SD for a big screen you see nothing but imperfections. That said, SD on Voom matches DTV from my experience and is a notch above Dish right now.

You and I want the same thing, the day we can just flip through every channel and see HD, that's why even with all their hiccups they are working through I'm standing behind Voom. Premium channels have always repeated their material alot. Channels like TNT and DiscoveryHD are plagued with high production costs of HD programming and few people who want to sponsor I guess. Discovery airs only Circuit City commercials, NBC Olympics seem to only air Sony commercials. TNT double airs it's commercials in Stretchy Mode, but who knows if the charge for their commercials increased after they came up with TNT-HD. BravoHD only seems to air NBC public service announcements.

The more HD sets sell, the more people become aware of HD, the more demand for HD, will drive advertisers to spend dollars on HD advertising or the more subscribers for premium channels the more content, the more new HD channels etc. Hence it would behoove (sp?) us all that want more HD to make sure we are in the "I subscribe to the most HD" stat column.