HD

[JWKessler]

Quick question, for my 52" Samsung LCD 1080p, should i put the settings on dish to 1080i, or would it be better in 720p?

Displays like your Samsung TV have converters in them that can accept one format and convert it to the display's native resolution. Likewise source devices like your receiver contain converters allowing them to output what ever resolution you need. If you run your video through an AV Receiver it too may contain a converter.

So, the choice of format settings can be both confusing and simple. Whatever settings you chose, the devices will figure it all out and give you a decent picture. However, if you are fussy, you might want to think about it more.

Not all converters are equal. If you have a device with a cheap converter, you might find you are better off not using it and letting a device with a better converter do the work.

As an example, I have a 720p DLP projector that is known to have an excellent format converter in it. My mid-range Denon AVR receiver has a cheap converter that can produce artifacts, so I have its converter disabled. My Blu-Ray player outputs 1080p, the Denon passes that along unchanged and the converters in the projector do the heavy lifting. I do the same with my Dish receiver.

You can rely on product reviews to tell you which devices can provide the best conversion, get all devices that work at the same resolution so conversion won't be necessary, or experiment to see what combination looks best.

In reality however we are talking about subtle effects. I'd guess most of us wouldn't see much difference between a bad set up and a great one.

 

[Ira Lacher]

The other day I walked into a local satellite retailer in Des Moines, Iowa, who handles both Dish and DirecTV. I asked the manager about this very issue, since I was leaning to switching to Dish because of their additional HD channels, lower price and promise of free HD for life.

Now, this guy is very technologically savvy about the products and services he sells. He will talk for hours about RSS satellite technology over DBS; ways to maximize performance of any number of receivers, and MRV and DECA. But about picture quality difference he was skeptical. Finally, he led me over to a 52-inch Samsung LCD set and said, "Well, let's see."

He had both Dish and DirecTV receivers feeding into the Samsung via HDMI. He tuned to CNN, saying this was one of the channels with the best video output. First we viewed the DirecTV feed. The picture was clear and crisp, with fine details throughout and crisp outlines. Then he switched to Dish. The difference was astonishing.

The Dish picture was VERY noticeably softer and even stretched -- not as bad as SD, but VERY apparent. He volunteered, "I never knew it was so different. Wow; I guess I'm glad that I have DirecTV."

If you would like to contact this person to verify this anecdote, please send me a personal message. I would not want to inundate him with queries. But he is a believer now, as am I.

 

[whatchel1]

Dumb

The other day I walked into a local satellite retailer in Des Moines, Iowa, who handles both Dish and DirecTV. I asked the manager about this very issue, since I was leaning to switching to Dish because of their additional HD channels, lower price and promise of free HD for life.

Now, this guy is very technologically savvy about the products and services he sells. He will talk for hours about RSS satellite technology over DBS; ways to maximize performance of any number of receivers, and MRV and DECA. But about picture quality difference he was skeptical. Finally, he led me over to a 52-inch Samsung LCD set and said, "Well, let's see."

He had both Dish and DirecTV receivers feeding into the Samsung via HDMI. He tuned to CNN, saying this was one of the channels with the best video output. First we viewed the DirecTV feed. The picture was clear and crisp, with fine details throughout and crisp outlines. Then he switched to Dish. The difference was astonishing.

The Dish picture was VERY noticeably softer and even stretched -- not as bad as SD, but VERY apparent. He volunteered, "I never knew it was so different. Wow; I guess I'm glad that I have DirecTV."

If you would like to contact this person to verify this anecdote, please send me a personal message. I would not want to inundate him with queries. But he is a believer now, as am I.

Dorry but your friendly salesman was an idiot. That would be one of last channels I would use. CNN is a talking head channel and so it gets less bits or bandwidth than most of the other channels. Best whoule have been HDNET.

 

[sundude90]

Dorry but your friendly salesman was an idiot. That would be one of last channels I would use. CNN is a talking head channel and so it gets less bits or bandwidth than most of the other channels. Best whoule have been HDNET.

You are completely correct. Each channel is different per provider on how much bandwidth it is given. The providers decide based on the content & the viewership on how much bandwidth a particular channel gets, but most are within a certain "bracket" so say on how much bandwidth.

You could look a CNN now & notice that it looks bad, but you could try it tomorrow and it might be great. You never know.

 

[kstuart]

Now, this guy is very technologically savvy about the products and services he sells. He will talk for hours about RSS satellite technology over DBS; ways to maximize performance of any number of receivers, and MRV and DECA.

Is this a Saturday Night Live skit ?

Deca or DECA may refer to:
deca-, also spelled "deka-", a prefix in the International System of Units
DECA (organization), a business-marketing student organization
Decabromodiphenyl ether, an organic compound
Discovering the Educational Consequences of Advanced Technical Education (DECA), a National Science Foundation funded research grant
Defense Commissary Agency
Nandrolone, the active ingredient in the steroid Deca-Durabolin, commonly referred to as Deca

and

RSS is a three-letter abbreviation that can stand for a wide variety of terms:
Contents [hide]
1 Mathematics
2 Technology
3 Medicine
4 Immunology
5 Organizations
6 Music
7 Planning law
[edit]Mathematics

Root-sum-square, the square root of the sum of the squares of the elements of a data set
Residual sum of squares in statistics
[edit]Technology

RSS (file format), "Really Simple Syndication" or "Rich Site Summary", a family of web feed formats
Radio Service Software, a proprietary suite of programs sold by Motorola
Resident Set Size, the portion of a process that exists in physical memory (RAM)
Rotary steerable system, a tool used in the drilling industry
Received Signal Strength, a technique used to locate nodes in Wireless Sensor Networks
Reduced Space Symbologies, a family of barcodes now renamed to GS1 DataBar
[edit]Medicine

Repetitive strain injury, also Repetitive stress syndrome, an overuse syndrome
Russell-Silver syndrome
[edit]Immunology

Recombination Signal Sequences, genes used to generate antibodies and T-cell receptors
[edit]Organizations

Radio Security Service, a British signals intelligence group during World War II
Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, a right-wing Indian Hindu volunteer organization
Rashtra Sevika Samiti, a women wing of Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh
Red Swastika School, Singapore
Red Swastika Society
Regional Security System, an agreement between several countries situated in the Eastern Caribbean region
Riverside Secondary School, Windsor, Ontario, Canada
RiverStar Software, USA
Robert Smyth School, Leicestershire, England
Rockdale, Sandow and Southern Railroad
Royal Statistical Society, the main scientific and professional body for statisticians in the UK
Royal Stuart Society, a Jacobite and Legitimist organization in the United Kingdom
[edit]Music

Rock Star Supernova, a reality TV formed supergroup
Rockstar: Supernova, the reality TV show which found the above group's singer
Rock Star Supernova (album), the debut album of the above supergroup
[edit]Planning law

Regional Spatial Strategy provides a regional level planning framework for the regions of England

Now about the "comparison":

Then he switched to Dish. The difference was astonishing.

The Dish picture was VERY noticeably softer and even stretched -- not as bad as SD, but VERY apparent. He volunteered, "I never knew it was so different. Wow; I guess I'm glad that I have DirecTV."

Sounds like a classic sales room with one input misadjusted - possibly intentionally (Best Buy are reputedly famous for that).

I have watched CNN-HD on Dish since the first day it appeared and it has never ever looked stretched.

 

[whatchel1]

What do they sell

Is this a Saturday Night Live skit ?

Sounds like a classic sales room with one input misadjusted - possibly intentionally (Best Buy are reputedly famous for that).

I have watched CNN-HD on Dish since the first day it appeared and it has never ever looked stretched.

No it was Mon morn quarterbacking . It sounds like they had the SD on stretch to me. The guy was had. They sell D* not E* at the store. I would put $$ on that.

 

[TheKrell]

Sounds like a classic sales room with one input misadjusted - possibly intentionally (Best Buy are reputedly famous for that).

Agreed. Low bitrate or not, I haven't seen CNN looking all that bad. I'd put money on the receiver being set to the default 480p by mistake. Why oh why don't Dish receivers have an HDMI Auto setting like everybody else?

 

[Ghpr13]

My post was already too long, so I did not include.

Resolution by itself does not matter.

For example, 1920x1080 at a bitrate of 3000 is worse quality than 1440x1080 at a bitrate of 6000.

And, here is the important one:

1920x1080 at a bitrate of 3000 is worse quality than 1440x1080 at a bitrate of 3000.

This is because 3000 is sometimes an insufficient bitrate, and lowering the number of bits required per frame means that bitrate will produce less visible artifacts.

Real world example:

Suppose you have a pitcher with a volume of 3 pints of beer, and you have 4 guys.

If you give each guy a pint mug, then their mugs will only be 3/4 full and each guys will say "I am not getting enough beer".

But if you give each guy a half pint mug, then you can give each one a full mug and follow it with a half mug top-off.

I really like your example! Cheers!
Ghpr13

 

[Ghpr13]

if you are worried too much about picture quality, remember that is usually a personal decision. what i might consider great, you might consider so so. it's all subjective. what you might do is find a retailer/installer there in your town or neighboring town and see if they have a side by side comparison or at least view each providers channels on athe same tv. good luck with your decision.

if i were you, go visit a retailer, tell them how many tvs, what kind they are too(SD or HDTV) and they should be able to guide you and give you an estimate of how much you will be paying. each companies website also can let you build your system and it will tell you how much too.

Agreed. Low bitrate or not, I haven't seen CNN looking all that bad. I'd put money on the receiver being set to the default 480p by mistake. Why oh why don't Dish receivers have an HDMI Auto setting like everybody else?

What I would suggest to the OP is to figure out what kind of set-up he really needs (how many receivers/DVRs needed), then what type of programming you want in your household (family, sports, premium channels, etc.). Next see which company Dish or Direct is the most bang for the buck.
PQ between the two is going to pretty close. Either one is going to be a major improvement on your cable. PQ also is effected by differences in brand & size of TV, Plaza vs LCD (though not as much anymore), are you sending the signal directly to the TV or thought an A/V receiver, so on and so on, as has been stated in this thread by others.
Bottom line, if you feel good about the decisions you made, set-ups, programming, cost, chances are you are going to be happy with what you picked.
I went though this last year. Personally, I decided on Dish. The two factors that swayed me were my family are not into sports that much at all, and our budget. Next month I'll been with Dish for 1 year and I'm happy, never had "buyer remorse".
Good luck!
Ghpr13

 

[Ira Lacher]

Points are well taken. But I also have seen differences on HDNet as well. I don't mind going back and asking him about receiver settings. But I'm reminded of the Groucho Marx quote: "Who are you gonna believe -- me, or the evidence of your own two eyes?"

 

[Laddyboy]

Do people with six TVs actually need to watch six different programs at the same time? I ask because it's possible to pipe the signal around the house over RG6 coax (SD of course) and it's possible to drive multiple HD sets using a combination of HDMI splitters and both HDMI and component connections.

I have three HD sets and a bunch of SD sets running off a single VIP722 and find it works fine for me. On the other hand I don't have a bunch of kids in the house, so my needs may be more modest.

This is what I did as well. I used to have 3 receivers and am now down to a single 722 which serves us well. There is OTA to all the others which helps.

 

[whatchel1]

cheated

Points are well taken. But I also have seen differences on HDNet as well. I don't mind going back and asking him about receiver settings. But I'm reminded of the Groucho Marx quote: "Who are you gonna believe -- me, or the evidence of your own two eyes?"

When the eyes are cheated; it doesn't count.

 

[bforce]

When the eyes are cheated; it doesn't count.

Exactly. You were duped by the retailer. CNN has never, never looked stretched on my TV. This is a very common practice, as someone mentioned earlier, Best Buy is famous for this on HDTVs, and it can change from week to week (what's on sale, inventory they need to get rid of, etc.)

Just wondering since I've never dealt with a Sat retailer before (have just heard about experiences just like yours), but do E* and D*offer incentives to retailers to make them push one Sat over the other, say for a month or two or whatever?

 

[whatchel1]

D* does

Exactly. You were duped by the retailer. CNN has never, never looked stretched on my TV. This is a very common practice, as someone mentioned earlier, Best Buy is famous for this on HDTVs, and it can change from week to week (what's on sale, inventory they need to get rid of, etc.)

Just wondering since I've never dealt with a Sat retailer before (have just heard about experiences just like yours), but do E* and D*offer incentives to retailers to make them push one Sat over the other, say for a month or two or whatever?

I used to work for a distributor of D* and of course they give them let us say "pats on the back".

 

[Ronnie-]

No it was Mon morn quarterbacking . It sounds like they had the SD on stretch to me. The guy was had. They sell D* not E* at the store. I would put $$ on that.

Well, Ira did say that the store handles both.

Not saying there was not something wrong with the setup of course.

 

[womboughjj]

Do people with six TVs actually need to watch six different programs at the same time? I ask because it's possible to pipe the signal around the house over RG6 coax (SD of course) and it's possible to drive multiple HD sets using a combination of HDMI splitters and both HDMI and component connections.

I have three HD sets and a bunch of SD sets running off a single VIP722 and find it works fine for me. On the other hand I don't have a bunch of kids in the house, so my needs may be more modest.

I do because of kids. I could get away with one being the same but not more then that.

 

[womboughjj]

thanks

for all the info and not turning it into a war. I do need 6 tvs. I do not want to share my living room with any other. I want to be able to utilize all turners. I would like at least two dvrs but would love to have it on all with out the price of upgrades. And now direct is going to launch albany locals in 3q. But I just found out I am deploying again so I think its going to wait till I get back next year.

 

[TNGTony]

The problem is that you aren't in control of what "you eyes" are showing you. I was an electronic salesperson for 15 years of my life. A-B comparisons are the easiest thing in the world to manipulate especially if the customer is ignorant to the products they are trying to buy.

The picture quality difference between Dish and DirecTV is negligible when compared through identical settings. CNN is NOT stretched on Dish. It's just that simple.

See ya
Tony

 

[Ghpr13]

for all the info and not turning it into a war. I do need 6 tvs. I do not want to share my living room with any other. I want to be able to utilize all turners. I would like at least two dvrs but would love to have it on all with out the price of upgrades. And now direct is going to launch albany locals in 3q. But I just found out I am deploying again so I think its going to wait till I get back next year.

Thank you for your service to our country. May you be safe and come back home soon and in good health! I wish you well.
Ghpr13

 

[Bodo Fenrirsson]

I have D* & I keep my two HD DVR's on "Native". Is there a "Native" setting for E* boxes also? I'm fortunate in that I don't have many bills & I'm not in debt,so I thought about adding E* to my household also along with D*(as soon as I clear some trees from my back yard that would block signals to E*). To womboughjj,check out habu.tv. It's an IPTV service for American TV overseas. I know it doesn't help your situation stateside,but It could give you more to watch than AFN Freedom(assuming that you are going to the Middle East or Afghanistan).