HD....or not?

[bearingman07936]

I was enjoying FNC in HD this morning, and I noticed that the receiver only went to the 720 resolution (looking at the box, where the lights are).
It does that sometimes on other shows, too. What does that mean? Are there levels of quality in HD? I ask because the show is obviously in HD versus what it looked like last week.

Thanks.

 

[TNGTony]

There are three HD levels. 720P, 1080i and 1080p.
Broadcast channels use on of the first two.

Fox, ABC (both over the air and all Fox or ABC/ESPN branded HD channels) use 720p
Most other channels use 1080i

The difference is 720p draws all 720 lines of resolution from top to bottom on one pass (Progressive) 30 times a second.

1080i channels draw 540 lines (1, 3, 5, etc) then the other 540 lines (2, 4, 6, etc) alternating each 30 times a second to make 60 fields a second. Each "field" combines to make the 1080 interlaced lines in the frame (or 1080i) 30 times a second.

I don't want to start a holy war over which is better, but the progressive format prevents "jitter" in the picture.

1080i has "more lines".

1080p draws all 1080 lines at once 30 times a second, but it requires much more bandwidth to pass through at this time and most broadcasters don't have any plans to go to this resolution level. This is pretty much the realm of Blu Ray disc and specialty "we have 1080p HD channels PPV selections.

The human eye is incapable of distinguishing 1080p vs 720p on a 42" set if the viewer is further than 4 feet away.

Then you have to take a look at the native resolution of your TV. If your TV. No matter what the resolution of the program coming in, it will become whatever your TV's native resolution and HD style (I or P) is. How well the TV converts the image is really the key here.

See ya
Tony

 

[bearingman07936]

Thanks, that helps a lot! It explains why some programs look so much better than others, both being HD.
Before we upgraded to HD we bought two Sony 1080p (or i?) so it isn't the TV.
I use to think that digital was the same as HD, so I guess my education goes on!

Thanks again!

 

[HDinCincy]

Thanks, that helps a lot! It explains why some programs look so much better than others, both being HD.
Thanks again!

I agree with Tony. I seriously doubt the 720p vs. 1081i explains the differences you are seeing. There is so much that goes into the formula. First off, live programming almost always will look better than pre-recorded. So live sporting events usually look the best. The way the program is compressed is another factor, as is the way it gets from the terrestial station to the bird. But probably the most important is the quality of the camera used in acquiring the footage. A lot of stuff is acquired on cameras that may only cost $5K but are still HD. These are great cameras for the money, but the stuff you see on major networks' sports and news, is usually shot on cameras closer to six figures. IMHO, that's the major difference, not 720p or 1080i. (based on 30 yrs in TV production)

 

[Zellio2008]

The best thing to question is, do you have a good/great tv? GHigh priced lcds from Sony, Samsung, and high priced Plasmas from Panasonic, etc, will use Progressive mode for 1080i.

If you get a cheap Vizio, you probably should not expect good 1080i.

 

[Zellio2008]

I agree with Tony. I seriously doubt the 720p vs. 1081i explains the differences you are seeing. There is so much that goes into the formula. First off, live programming almost always will look better than pre-recorded. So live sporting events usually look the best. The way the program is compressed is another factor, as is the way it gets from the terrestial station to the bird. But probably the most important is the quality of the camera used in acquiring the footage. A lot of stuff is acquired on cameras that may only cost $5K but are still HD. These are great cameras for the money, but the stuff you see on major networks' sports and news, is usually shot on cameras closer to six figures. IMHO, that's the major difference, not 720p or 1080i. (based on 30 yrs in TV production)

What would you say Fox uses for their sporting events? $3,000 cameras? $2,000 ones?

 

[Zellio2008]

The human eye is incapable of distinguishing 1080p vs 720p on a 42" set if the viewer is further than 4 feet away.

I'm gonna hafta debate this. Your talking the average 1080p versus 720p, on 6 mhz channels at mpeg4. Compressed versus compressed will always be compressed.

If they were uncompressed, I'd imagine the differences would be quite clear.

 

[bearingman07936]

The best thing to question is, do you have a good/great tv? GHigh priced lcds from Sony, Samsung, and high priced Plasmas from Panasonic, etc, will use Progressive mode for 1080i.

If you get a cheap Vizio, you probably should not expect good 1080i.

We have two Sony Bravia's one 40" and one 46". They aren't a year old yet, and I did my homework.

 

[jtwex]

Another thing to consider is the dreaded 'native mode' where changing channels slows down to a snails pace. I generally use 1080i but watch sports in either 720p or up converted to 1080p. My most expensive set does a decent job of up converting but it still lacks the beauty of pure 1080p (blueray).

 

[HDinCincy]

What would you say Fox uses for their sporting events? $3,000 cameras? $2,000 ones?

I believe they may use a few "cheap" cams that are locked in position around the stadium, but the main ones are in the six figure range. As I said before, these are my opinions; your mileage may vary.

 

[HDinCincy]

The best thing to question is, do you have a good/great tv? GHigh priced lcds from Sony, Samsung, and high priced Plasmas from Panasonic, etc, will use Progressive mode for 1080i.

If you get a cheap Vizio, you probably should not expect good 1080i.

Your statement contradicts itself. If it's 1080i, then it's not progressive. I do, however, agree that certain TV monitors will give you a better image. If a set is 1080p it should be the best available when viewing a blu-ray, but i can't say it would look any better than a 1080i when viewing D* signals. Again, this is my opinion based on my personal observations. You may have better eyes than I do. Mine have been used and abused for a while.

 

[Ronnie-]

The best thing to question is, do you have a good/great tv? GHigh priced lcds from Sony, Samsung, and high priced Plasmas from Panasonic, etc, will use Progressive mode for 1080i.

If you get a cheap Vizio, you probably should not expect good 1080i.

I agree that the better the set, the better the picture (generally anyway), however I want to clarify for some. Nearly ALL LCD and Plasma displays will convert the signal to progressive anyway, Vizio included. The reason I say nearly all, there are the odd set here or there, I think Hitachi made an interlaced Plasma (and honestly I dont know if they are made anymore)

 

[Zynergi]

MA there are so many different factors that boiling it down to a 720p vs 1080i war is not even close to fair.

As stated Cameras are the first step, but then you have to look at the entire production line. The light available, is it natural sunlight, stadium non-adjustable lighting, the amount of UV present, fixed studio lighting, fixed camera top lighting, metered on-location lighting. Then is the production competent enough to calibrate the cameras and video boards. Is your TV calibrated right? Then just simple Digital steps such as how much balance in White and Black there is. How the levels are adjusted in production. Was the show simply up-converted from a Digital Master or even a Tape Master and what types of adjustments were made.

There is a ton more that can affect the over all PQ, the best way to see this is go to best buy and look at the difference in each TV on the same program, even on a 1080p blu-ray show. Even at that point you may think Bob's Cheapo LCD looks better than a Sony Bravia 60" just because the TV is not calibrated properly.

 

[bearingman07936]

Okay, now last night our receiver did a new software download. Afterwards it told us that now it was ready for us to see HD movies in 1080p. I don't remember our model number, but we have the most recent HD DVR - the one that Costco "sells". I thought I was already getting 1080, but I suppose that it means I was only getting 1080i, and that now it can receive 1080p?

 

[bearingman07936]

MA there are so many different factors that boiling it down to a 720p vs 1080i war is not even close to fair.

As stated Cameras are the first step, but then you have to look at the entire production line. The light available, is it natural sunlight, stadium non-adjustable lighting, the amount of UV present, fixed studio lighting, fixed camera top lighting, metered on-location lighting. Then is the production competent enough to calibrate the cameras and video boards. Is your TV calibrated right? Then just simple Digital steps such as how much balance in White and Black there is. How the levels are adjusted in production. Was the show simply up-converted from a Digital Master or even a Tape Master and what types of adjustments were made.

There is a ton more that can affect the over all PQ, the best way to see this is go to best buy and look at the difference in each TV on the same program, even on a 1080p blu-ray show. Even at that point you may think Bob's Cheapo LCD looks better than a Sony Bravia 60" just because the TV is not calibrated properly.

I agree with you there. What got us last year was a stroll through Best Buy, not even looking at the TV's and we walked past an HD set-up that was showing Blue-Ray demos. What they had on was Chicken Little. That sold me. To me, the cartoons are right out there in front, when it comes to Blue-Ray. I could see every strand of every feather on that chicken's head. And I've been past cartoons for quite a while now! Well, in addition to the two sets, we bought the Chicken Little Blue-Ray, and so now we have something to keep the grandkids occupied when they come over!

 

[Zynergi]

...Well, in addition to the two sets, we bought the Chicken Little Blue-Ray, and so now we have something to keep the grandkids occupied when they come over!

LIES! Its something to keep the grandparents sane after the grandkids have been there a while

 

[bearingman07936]

LIES! Its something to keep the grandparents sane after the grandkids have been there a while

OKAY! You got me!