Gamespot declares 360 winning over PS3 on graphics

[JoeSp]

Nothing lives up to the HYPE. Anyone using VISTA? Anybody tried that new NBA ball? How many of you actually get the MPG that was listed on your car/truck when you bought it? The string on the Wii remote is not its weak link? M$ never makes defective products? Sony never has manufacturing problems?

Come on, list one product that has lived up to its hype? Nothing ever does - so lets move on. The PS3 is out, Sony has an update to correct the 1080i problem (now 720p owners have to go in and reset the resolution) and other than that the race is on.

PS2 is leading the pack --- Still? How long can their driver last -- he hasn't had sleep for 6 years! I see a wreck coming sooner than later!
XBOX360 has a half a track lead on the new guys! -- do they have the tires and gas to last--next pit stop new tires going on?
Wii is entering the first turn and picking up tremendous speed -- will their engine give out or can they sustain this speed--will someone get hurt by flying controllers?
PS3 is now leaving the pits -- have they solve manufacturing problems so they can sustain a resonable build quantity?--did they do the right thing by pitting for so long?

Stay tune -- race results will be updated monthly -- someone here will always bring out the numbers

 

[tonyp56]

How about neither of them (Xbox 360 or PS3) are being used to their capabilities. I've noticed that most games on my 360, don't look all that different than they would if they were on my plain old Xbox. Game developers, or those responsible for making games, I think cut corners too often, and the games that we (consumers) end up with are not the best that they could be.

I personally like Xbox 360 over any other console (though Nintendo isn't out of the question, I just couldn't afford a Wii right now), including anything from Sony. However, this isn't solely based on graphics, it is more than that. Sony could have the best graphical machine ever, but I'll still go with my 360.

In the end, like I said, neither is getting games that take advantage of their capabilities.

 

[mikley28]

Nothing lives up to the HYPE. Anyone using VISTA?

Nope. Pirated corporate open licensing copy, or pre-release beta. I'm tired of reinstalling windows over and over!

Anybody tried that new NBA ball?

Basketball is not my thing.

How many of you actually get the MPG that was listed on your car/truck when you bought it?

I GENERALLY get 24 MPG sticker said 25 MPG which is acceptable. Maintain your car properly and maybe YOU will get is what's on the sticker too.

The string on the Wii remote is not its weak link?

I don't have a Wii but I do find the flying controllers kind of amusing... I bet alot of extended warranties are being utilized now so people aren't wasting their money on those damned things.

M$ never makes defective products?

They did, and now fixed the problem.

Sony never has manufacturing problems?

How many times did they say that in the past 6 months? This is the third, maybe fourth?

Come on, list one product that has lived up to its hype? Nothing ever does - so lets move on.

The iPod.

PS2 is leading the pack --- Still? How long can their driver last -- he hasn't had sleep for 6 years! I see a wreck coming sooner than later!

Maybe because it has a nice price point? $129 gets you the console and 5 games at Frys.

XBOX360 has a half a track lead on the new guys! -- do they have the tires and gas to last--next pit stop new tires going on?

Depends if Sony's manufacturing problem is fixed or not. As I said before, they said that about 3 or 4 times already. MOST families will have ONE console in their house NOT two. Is Sony driving a sense of false hope into consumers to prevent them from buying a 360 in hopes they would score a PS3 before Christmas. It seems to be their style of doing business.

Wii is entering the first turn and picking up tremendous speed -- will their engine give out or can they sustain this speed--will someone get hurt by flying controllers?

Again, nice price point. innovative controller, Just has some safety issues. Although I do find it slightly amusing. A good price point for consoles seems to be <$300. We have seen it with the past consoles and now the Wii. MS and Sony are trying to raise that bar for their own pockets. The Wii on the other hand profits from day one.

PS3 is now leaving the pits -- have they solve manufacturing problems so they can sustain a resonable build quantity?--did they do the right thing by pitting for so long?

Doubtful. I'm not really buying into them fixing their problem, they said that a few times now but the problem still remains. Pitting so long compared to what? You yourself said that you think they should have waited until March 07. But then that would have hurt their blu-ray promotion strategies.

 

[vinnyv07]

A good price point for consoles seems to be <$300. We have seen it with the past consoles and now the Wii. MS and Sony are trying to raise that bar for their own pockets. The Wii on the other hand profits from day one.

Yes....under three hundred is really a bargin now a days. I remember when my parents bought me a Atari game machine and it was priced a little over $200 and that was in the late 70's. Considering what these machines are capable of doing compard to years ago, under $300 is great. Alot of people outside the gaming world think that 600 bucks is way too much for a game.

 

[mikley28]

Yes....under three hundred is really a bargin now a days. I remember when my parents bought me a Atari game machine and it was priced a little over $200 and that was in the late 70's. Considering what these machines are capable of doing compard to years ago, under $300 is great. Alot of people outside the gaming world think that 600 bucks is way too much for a game.

I play my fair share of games and think 600 is too much for a game console. For a PC however that is a different story. You get many uses from a pc which you dont get from a console. I guess you now know why my XBL Gamerscore is so low...

 

[vinnyv07]

I play my fair share of games and think 600 is too much for a game console. For a PC however that is a different story. You get many uses from a pc which you dont get from a console. I guess you now know why my XBL Gamerscore is so low...

When you think about it 600 bucks gets you alot with the PS3....because it isn't just a gaming machine. It's a full functioning blu-ray palyer and comes with a 60 gig hard drive built in ...not to mention wireless internet built in and slots for all your memory cards from PS2. It is steep but I still feel that if any machine is worth the 600 buck pricetag, it's the PS3.

 

[mikley28]

It's a full functioning blu-ray palyer

I have no interest in Blu-ray. That technology costs way too much and isnt any better than HDDVD.

and comes with a 60 gig hard drive built in

My computer has a little under 1 TB of storage.

not to mention wireless internet built

Every room in my house is wired with cat5e. Why do I need wireless?

in and slots for all your memory cards from PS2.

Believe it or not I only have about 10 PS2 games.

It is steep but I still feel that if any machine is worth the 600 buck pricetag, it's the PS3.

yes $600 is steep but it's it's features aren't enough for me to justify the steep price when i can get far more use out of my PC.

Will it allow me to do my online banking? How about video editing? Digital Photography? Any creative activity?

 

[JoeSp]

Originally posted by Mikley28:
I have no interest in Blu-ray. That technology costs way too much and isnt any better than HDDVD

BluRay technology is no more expensive then HD-DVD. Also, seems BluRay is capable of higher bitrates. That means something when viewing HD material-- doesn't it?

Originally posted by Mikley28:
My computer has a little under 1 TB of storage.

We are talking consoles here are we not? Who cares what your computer has.
And while we are at it -- how much did your computer as it is configured cost you?

Originally posted by Mikley28:
Every room in my house is wired with cat5e. Why do I need wireless?

So save yourself $200 and buy the 20gb PS3. Not everybody has or can wire their home for cat5e. Some live in an apartment and wireless makes things easy.

Originally posted by Mikley28:
Believe it or not I only have about 10 PS2 games.

Have a PS2 do we? How many Xbot games do you have? How many PC games do you have? How many XBot360 games do you have? You are not a closet Sony backer are you?

Originally posted by Mikley28:
yes $600 is steep but it's it's features aren't enough for me to justify the steep price when i can get far more use out of my PC.

And the Xbox360 with accessories providing the same benefits is cheaper how?

Most folks who eat out blow that much on lunch and dinner in 1 to 2 months. You could bring your lunch from home and eat at home and save that much in 4 to 6 weeks. Heck, most folks make that much money in 1 week. If $600 is too much how did you ever buy your computer with 1 tb of storage?

 

[mikley28]

BluRay technology is no more expensive then HD-DVD.

Are you high again? Did you go see your drug pusher tonight? Since when did $500 = $1000 or did I miss something in math class?

Also, seems BluRay is capable of higher bitrates.

Show me an objective site that states this? Or are you going by what your Uncle Ken says again?

We are talking consoles here are we not? Who cares what your computer has.

If you learned how to read my response to Vinny it was explaining why I didn't need nor want a PS3.

And while we are at it -- how much did your computer as it is configured cost you?

Over a period of 6 years it cost about $1500.

Originally posted by Mikley28:
Every room in my house is wired with cat5e. Why do I need wireless?

So save yourself $200 and buy the 20gb PS3. Not everybody has or can wire their home for cat5e. Some live in an apartment and wireless makes things easy.

Dude, you are truly a moron. This has to be the dumbest post from you ever and I don't know why I'm even responding to it. I think I feel my brain cells dying from reading your last post. I digress,... Now, how is that saving $200? Wiring didn't cost $200 1k feet of cat 5 cost $50 and all the jacks are about $1-$2 each depending on where you go. And yes I did it myself. And besides, we were talking about my situation, again, learn to read. either YOU live in apartment, or you rent a house, or you lack the technical know how to wire your own home. Which is it? One more thing, if I take my already wired house and turned it wireless that would cost me at least $150 for the cost of the router and repeater because of wall insulation and interference with all the 2.4Ghz phones in the house. Then the cost of the 20GB PS3 is another $500... Tell me again how that is saving $200? I just cant see your Joe logic. Maybe because there is none.

Have a PS2 do we?/

Your point moron? I had it before the original xbox. Once i got the original Xbox I never touched the PS2 again.

How many Xbot games do you have?

I HAD 40ish before I traded the Xbox and games in to get my 360.

How many PC games do you have?

Literally, if you know what that means, about 100.

How many XBot360 games do you have?

Do I really need to answer that, or could you not figure it out yourself... Look at my gamertag and count them. Stop being an idiot and use a little common sense.

You are not a closet Sony backer are you?

I told you a few weeks ago, the only Sony product I own is my TV and thats on the way out come tax return time. So apparently not.

And the Xbox360 with accessories providing the same benefits is cheaper how?"
Where did I post that I had a HDDVD drive for it? I dont remember posting that... Maybe because I DIDN'T. I use my 360 to play games. Not watch HDDVDs. I have an upconverting Samsung DVD player with HDCP disabled so it outputs 1080i through component. WHY on earth would I need a HDDVD player or blu-ray right now when my tv only supports upto 1080i.

Most folks who eat out blow that much on lunch and dinner in 1 to 2 months.

WTF are they eating. Figure lunch between $5-$7 EVERYDAY for 2 months is only $400ish..

If $600 is too much how did you ever buy your computer with 1 tb of storage?

Umm, its called usefulness... What can you do with a PS3 besides play games and watch movies? Anything? Didn't think so. Try running Photoshop, or an office suite on your PS3 and let me know how it works.

Please do some research on me and my situation before trying to flame. I'm getting tired of correcting you all of the time.

 

[JoeSp]

Mikley28 , I thought this post was about consoles and not your PC? With the PS3 selling for $499 and getting great reviews as a BluRay player there is no longer a price differance in players between HD-DVD and BluRay.

On bitrates here is a posting on BluRay bitrates -- you show me one on HD-DVD and then we can compare - okay?

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=3338

Why does your posting take on a personal note when Vinny's does not? He is talking about if a console is worth the asking price. How does your posts answer that question except for your personal situation?

You stated that you had 10 PS2 games. What exactly were you refering to if you no longer own a PS2?

It seems that what you are trying to say is that you don't like Sony. Fine -- say that. Don't take individual's posts line by line and try to trash or bs their statements.

You know this post is about consoles right? Started out about comparisons between the 360 and PS3 on titles that are currently on both-- right?

Not everyone has your PC, your cat5e wiring in their abode, and nobody really cares what you have or do not have. Your posts are comparisons between what you have and what others have stated in preferance or comparison about the XBOX360 and the PS3. No one in this post is comparing either the XBOX360 or the PS3 to your PC. In fact, no one is even comparing the XBOX360 or the PS3 to any PC -- just to both consoles.

Everyone is entitled to their oppinion but how about the name calling? You feel the need to correct me-- post something -- on topic and back it up and drop the name calling. I will respond in kind -- okay?

 

[mikley28]

Mikley28 , I thought this post was about consoles and not your PC? With the PS3 selling for $499 and getting great reviews as a BluRay player there is no longer a price differance in players between HD-DVD and BluRay.

On bitrates here is a posting on BluRay bitrates -- you show me one on HD-DVD and then we can compare - okay?

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=3338

Why does your posting take on a personal note when Vinny's does not? He is talking about if a console is worth the asking price. How does your posts answer that question except for your personal situation?

You stated that you had 10 PS2 games. What exactly were you refering to if you no longer own a PS2?

It seems that what you are trying to say is that you don't like Sony. Fine -- say that. Don't take individual's posts line by line and try to trash or bs their statements.

You know this post is about consoles right? Started out about comparisons between the 360 and PS3 on titles that are currently on both-- right?

Not everyone has your PC, your cat5e wiring in their abode, and nobody really cares what you have or do not have. Your posts are comparisons between what you have and what others have stated in preferance or comparison about the XBOX360 and the PS3. No one in this post is comparing either the XBOX360 or the PS3 to your PC. In fact, no one is even comparing the XBOX360 or the PS3 to any PC -- just to both consoles.

Everyone is entitled to their oppinion but how about the name calling? You feel the need to correct me-- post something -- on topic and back it up and drop the name calling. I will respond in kind -- okay?

Oh please...

1. First of all I just mentioned that I purchased a new video card instead because it has more value then your PS3 and its justifiable by the many different applications for it. Vinny brought up the PS3 features and I explained WHY I didn't need them.

YOU on the other hand started comparing in attempts to start flaming, Did you forget that one too? Early Alzheimers setting in?

2. YOU are one of the only ones who wants the PS3 as a blu-ray player first and games second.

3. It figures they would talk about the bitrates on the blu-ray forums. Choose another source other than a site which is totally biased towards one format. I thought you would figure that one out. Obvoiusly I shouldn't assume anything about you. Get your information from a non-partisan site then maybe ill take your point in merit.

Again, I stated that I had better things to spend $600 on because its justifiable and why I DIDN'T need the PS3s features.. YOU are the one following up with the comparisons... so yes I still think you are a moron, and that will never change. I have posted your faults on many things already and you pull a GW Bush and ignore them. And STOP assuming.... I still own the PS2 I just didn't play anything on it for the last 3 years and its sitting here collecting dust.

In that post, there was nothing to back up and I don't really care if you respond or not, since you don't respond to the other things I correct you on, so what's the difference?

Go smoke your drugs, I'm through with you and your ignorance, not to mention the Sony spin you put on every thing.

 

[Sapient]

On bitrates here is a posting on BluRay bitrates -- you show me one on HD-DVD and then we can compare - okay?

So you start with your conclusion (BD has higher bitrates than HD DVD), and THEN ask for someone else to find data so you can look at it to see if you are right?

I don't think so. If you have the data, post it. If you didn't, then just admit you were only pretending to be operating from a position of knowledge.

 

[JamesJ]

I really feel bad for Joe, everyone is ganging up on him now, especially people who just quote him to get in on the "beating" Joe gave facts their sapient, if you have something that is different go ahead and put it out there if you dont, then just stay to the sideline! also everyone is arguing over OPINNIONS!! !which is better blu ray or HD, Ps3 or 360, I had a 360, I have a Ps3, I enjoy both, they are both great, but enough of me....I am going to let you argue, while I ENJOY my gaming system!

 

[Sapient]

I really feel bad for Joe, everyone is ganging up on him now, especially people who just quote him to get in on the "beating" Joe gave facts their sapient, if you have something that is different go ahead and put it out there if you dont, then just stay to the sideline! also everyone is arguing over OPINNIONS!! !which is better blu ray or HD, Ps3 or 360, I had a 360, I have a Ps3, I enjoy both, they are both great, but enough of me....I am going to let you argue, while I ENJOY my gaming system!

I'm not pickingon Joe to pick on Joe. And I certainly have to wish for the PS3 to do badly. I have an issue with Joe's intellectual dishonesty and the way it reduces the quality of the board. If a fanboy of another system simply made up "facts" the way Joe does, I'd post about them too.

See, he, not I, made a claim about bitrates. He, not I, has an obligation to back them up. I don't have to have counter data to ask someone who makes a claim to back up that claim.

I am not claiming that Joe is wrong. I have no idea. I'm pointing out that he once again made something up hoping that no one calls him on it, and if someone does, that data will appear that proves his claims correct.

EDIT: Just to show how an honest person goes about these things, I will now say that BR has a maximum video bitrate of 40Mbps v. HDDVD's 28Mbps, according to http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_vs_hddvd . See how that works? I look for the information BEFORE I draw a conclusion. I don't draw a conclusion and then ask other people to look for information in the hopes that I am correct.

 

[JamesJ]

I'm not pickingon Joe to pick on Joe. And I certainly have to wish for the PS3 to do badly. I have an issue with Joe's intellectual dishonesty and the way it reduces the quality of the board. If a fanboy of another system simply made up "facts" the way Joe does, I'd post about them too.

See, he, not I, made a claim about bitrates. He, not I, has an obligation to back them up. I don't have to have counter data to ask someone who makes a claim to back up that claim.

I am not claiming that Joe is wrong. I have no idea. I'm pointing out that he once again made something up hoping that no one calls him on it, and if someone does, that data will appear that proves his claims correct.

EDIT: Just to show how an honest person goes about these things, I will now say that BR has a maximum video bitrate of 40Mbps v. HDDVD's 28Mbps, according to http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_vs_hddvd . See how that works? I look for the information BEFORE I draw a conclusion. I don't draw a conclusion and then ask other people to look for information in the hopes that I am correct.

He did Post his facts, did you overlook that? how did he make those up? did he write that article? as far as I am concerned you were picking on him just to do it, now you are sorry and we will move on I am not trying to be a jerk, I like you want to uphold the honesty of this board and I get tired of the pissing contests with no piss! everyone says something but never backs it up, then Joe does back up his statements, or whoever else and they discredit it! when I come here, I look for facts, not gripes against Other people, and this video game board has come just that, and like I have said in the past I am guilty of it from time to time, but I am turning a new page!

 

[Posty-McPOst]

EDIT: Just to show how an honest person goes about these things, I will now say that BR has a maximum video bitrate of 40Mbps v. HDDVD's 28Mbps, according to http://www.blu-ray.com/faq/#bluray_vs_hddvd . See how that works? I look for the information BEFORE I draw a conclusion. I don't draw a conclusion and then ask other people to look for information in the hopes that I am correct.

HD-DVD uses the more mpeg4 codec which is more efficient than the mpeg2 codec used by Blu-Ray. This is old news as you can see from the article I'm quoting. For the most part the facts are out there. Joe is just doing the spin thing....I wonder where he learned such tricks?

"The group is also pushing the message that, while HD-DVD offers a lower data storage capacity than Blu-ray Disc, HD-DVD can store more high-definition programming. That's because it uses the MPEG4.AVC, which is based on the H.264 codec; and the VC9 codec, which is based on Microsoft's Windows Media 9 codec.

HD-DVD's codecs are more efficient than the MPEG2 system used in Blu-ray Disc can reduce the file size by two thirds, says Microsoft's Yajima. That means one 15GB disc can hold 180 minutes of high-definition video. A 29GB Blu-ray Disc can hold around 132 minutes of video, which is not long enough for around 5 percent of movies, he says. "

from http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,117123-page,1/article.html
July 27th 2004

 

[Sapient]

He did Post his facts, did you overlook that? how did he make those up?

Uh...He did not post facts that supported his claims. How hard can tht be to understand?

as far as I am concerned you were picking on him just to do it, now you are sorry and we will move on

Well, your opinion and a dollar would leave you in deep debt. You can ascribe false motives to me all you want to cover for yourself. It has no effect on my standing.

How about this. You actually quote material that Joe provided that shows BR bitrates are higher than HDDVD bitrates. Can't do it? I didn't think so. What are your motivation for these untruths? Why do you feel the need to misrepresent what Joe provided? He himself admitted he did not back up his claims. He himself admitted he needed someone else to do it before it could be discussed.

 

[JoeSp]

I can always back up my statements:

Discussion on AVS about BluRay's higher bitrates then HD-DVD
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/archive/index.php/t-702057.html

Maximum transfer rate as stated is 36.55 mbits:
http://www.dvdforum.org/images/Forum_HD_DVD_Universal_24.pdf

Maximum transfer rate as stated 54 mbits"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_ray_disc

For users recording digital television broadcasts, the Blu-ray Disc's baseline datarate of 36 Mbit/s is more than adequate to record high-definition broadcasts. Support for new codecs will evolve as they are encapsulated by broadcasters into their MPEG-2 transport streams, and consumer set-top boxes capable of decoding them are rolled out. For Blu-ray Disc movies the maximum transfer rate is 54 Mbit/s (1.5x) for the combined audio and video payload, of which a maximum of 40 Mbit/s can be dedicated to video data. This compares favorably to the maximum of 36.55 Mbit/s in HD-DVD movies for audio and video data. [9]

Is this enough information Sapient and Mikley28. Hey Mikie, you are still discussing your computer! Last I check this was still a video game forum not a PC forum and this post was about 360 vs PS3 graphics. If you guys are going to challenge my intellect then you better ante up early. I don't bs, I don't name call (except once and I appoligized) and I CAN ALWAYS BACK UP WHAT I SAY!!

Now, if it were not for M$ VC-1 compression you would not be looking at HD-DVD at all. This compression technique is excellent. However, with the BD-50gb disc you can still do MPEG2 and get the same or better quality. But with more studios using VC-1 and Mpeg-4 on BluRay you are going to get higher bitrates for the movies. This is starting to show.

No matter how you cut it BluRay is technologically superior to HD-DVD. Can they both deliver excellent HD movies and HD sound--yes. Can they both do 1080p -- once the new Toshiba players are out yes. Can they both do 1080p 24fps - don't know about HD-DVD as Toshiba has not said yet but BluRay will be doing it. The Sony (standalone) does that now and the Pioneer will be doing that also.

Here is were we are, HD-DVD stumbled caught hold and started doing very nice conversions of movies to the format. Both Toshiba and Universal are to be giving big cudos for doing a fine job. VC-1 while initially designed to be a low bitrate compression technology has proven its value in the HD movie game. It has give HD-DVD its great ratings.

BluRay stumbled and fell on its face. First, Samsung's player was defective, too expensive and they were very slow to make corrections. Sony also deserves a big thumbs down for doing lousy HD conversions. Man, how many things can one mess up on a launch! But, Sony has come thru with the BD50gb discs. More Studios are producing movies on the new 50gb discs and most have started using the newer codecs, giving them more space on the 25gb disc and great picture quality.

Right now BluRay is storming Christmas, three new BluRay players on the market - if you count the PS3 20gb and 60db consoles there are five. All the supporting studios are releasing titles and most are on 50gb discs. I am really interested in the sales for BluRay players and movies for December. I think those numbers are going to be amazing.

Oh yeah, don't ask me now for those figures, if you want them you will have to wait till Janurary or Feb!

 

[JamesJ]

Uh...He did not post facts that supported his claims. How hard can tht be to understand?



Well, your opinion and a dollar would leave you in deep debt. You can ascribe false motives to me all you want to cover for yourself. It has no effect on my standing.

How about this. You actually quote material that Joe provided that shows BR bitrates are higher than HDDVD bitrates. Can't do it? I didn't think so. What are your motivation for these untruths? Why do you feel the need to misrepresent what Joe provided? He himself admitted he did not back up his claims. He himself admitted he needed someone else to do it before it could be discussed.

why the personal attacks? why do people always resort to those when they are wrong....did you not see the forum that Joe posted to? did you miss that? How did I misrepresejt anything? and how did he admit he needed someone else to do anything? he put a challange out for HD DVD bit rates, my goodness.

 

[Sapient]

why the personal attacks?

Only you can answer for your behavior.

why do people always resort to those when they are wrong....

Don't know. Maybe yo are embarrassed?

did you not see the forum that Joe posted to? did you miss that?

Of course I didn't miss it. The whole point is that the site he linked to did NOT compare BD and HDDVD bitrates. But you know this. This is why you are unable to actually quote any material from there that supports Joe's claim.

But hell, I'll give you another chance. Click on the link Joe offered.
http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=3338 Now quote anything from there that backs up this claim

Also, seems BluRay is capable of higher bitrates.

and how did he admit he needed someone else to do anything?

When asked to back up his claim, here is what he said.

On bitrates here is a posting on BluRay bitrates -- you show me one on HD-DVD and then we can compare - okay?

He admits outright there is no material there that allows us to compare the bitrates of HDDVD and BD. He says straight up that he can discuss the issue when someone else finds the data needed.