FTA Notice Sent To Retailers

[Tyralak]

Its a dumb witch hunt.

Free To Air is LEGAL Dish.

Also remember that Echostar is the largest maker and provider in Europe, and also Echostar FTA equipment is considered one of the most hackable units made.

Hello Mr Pot... Meet Mr Kettle.

I smell a gigantic anti-trust suit. This is blatantly illegal. FTA is a legal, competing product. E* is just trying to eliminate the competition.

 

[Tyralak]

That is irrelevant. Is that equipment legally available for sale in North America ? If not, then it doesn't matter if they make such equipment or not.

I know you want to support your installer and retailer friends, but you need a more valid argument than that.

How's this for an argument? FTA equipment is LEGAL in the US, in many cases it's a competing product with E* as regards international programming. What Dish is doing is illegal. It's a violation of antitrust laws.

 

[Yota86]

Please explain how it is a violation of anti-trust laws. All Dish is saying is that they will no longer do business with retailers who choose to continue selling FTA receivers. Dish is free to do business with whomever they wish.

 

[hoky]

My question is why is it only FTA receivers? I know alot of the hacking underground but I am not a hacker. So my question is if they so worried about FTA why are they not showing any worries to their own equipment being hacked? I know of 2 of their currently in use access cards that are hacked to enable full programming just like FTA. So what are they gonna do about that? Sue themselves for selling or making those cards?

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

With Sky Angel soon leaving the satellites, one of the only ways for people to receive their religious programming they want via satellite is from a service like Glorystar, which currently entirely using Free To Air equipment to get the singals into someones home.

There is NOTHING illegal about selling Free to Air equipment or users having Free To Air equipment and using it to receive Free To Air signals in their homes.

It is however illegal for someone to modify a satellite receiver to unscramble signals.

However what Dish fails to understand is that no matter if people selling Dish Network equipment are also felling Free To Air Equipment if they stop selling the Free To Air equipment it will not fix Dish Networks hacking problem. Free to Air sales will continue, and will probably PICK UP since Dish is advertising the fact that people can use Free To Air equipment to watch Dish Network.

The only ones who can truely fix Dish Networks hacking issues is Dish Network. They need to man up, grow some balls and fix their internal issues. DirecTV did it years ago... why can't Dish?

(I bet you can tell what the main part of my MultiChannel News article will be about tommorow)

 

[webbydude]

(I bet you can tell what the main part of my MultiChannel News article will be about tommorow)

Umm...explaining to retailers how to set up a LLC to bypass this little rule Dish is imposing?

 

[Smith P.]

"The only ones who can truely fix Dish Networks hacking issues is Dish Network. They need to man up, grow some balls and fix their internal issues. DirecTV did it years ago... why can't Dish?"

Scott,
You missed my post [#17] - Dish invested too much money in Nagravision technology and the owner (Kudelski) tied to worldwide market with the Nagra 'so-smart' cards.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Scott,
You missed my post [#17] - Dish invested too much money in Nagravision technology and the owner (Kudelski) tied to worldwide market with the Nagra 'so-smart' cards.

My question is how is that the problem of people selling legal Free To Air Equipment?

It's NOT.

The problem is entierly Echostars!

 

[Smith P.]

Partially, but practically Kudelski and STM are responsible for technological and encryption flaws.

 

[Jim S.]

Who knows, E* might have the same attitude as Microsoft.

"Every computer running pirated Windows is one less running linux"

"Every hacker stealing E* signal is one less subscriber of D* or cable"

I wonder if providers in other countries worry about piracy as much as Bell and Dish. I mean, if I understand correctly, in Europe they did the consumer-friendly thing and let you put their cards into generic receivers, so the pirates invented cards that clone themselves over the internet. There's not much they can do about that in the long term even if they tried.

 

[stogie5150]

I've read in some places that there is conjecture that E* is in with the whole hacking scene, in some convoluted way, taking their 'cut' from the sale of the hacker's receivers, seeing's how most of them are made by just a few manufacturers. That sure would explain a lot.

Me, I find that hard to believe, but it sure looks fishy sometimes.

 

[Hall]

Clearly there is very difficult to defeat technology available, i.e. what DirecTV is using. I know people who, in the past, paid "a guy" to program their cards and it did work. I saw it.... D* changed things and if people are still able to do this, there's very few of them and they're keeping it really, really quiet. Why doesn't E* use the same ?

On the other hand, they don't "lose" revenue from pirates, so why try very hard ? That argument only holds water if those same people would turn around and pay for the same thing they got for free. They wouldn't and most couldn't afford it. I mean, it was ALL channels that they got. ALL of the movie channels, ALL of the sports tiers, ALL of the adult channels, and so on. Even with PPVs, you just changed to that channel and it was on. There was no "buy" process that they even had to pretend to go through.

 

[ronjohn]

On the other hand, they don't "lose" revenue from pirates, so why try very hard ? That argument only holds water if those same people would turn around and pay for the same thing they got for free. They wouldn't and most couldn't afford it. I mean, it was ALL channels that they got. ALL of the movie channels, ALL of the sports tiers, ALL of the adult channels, and so on. Even with PPVs, you just changed to that channel and it was on. There was no "buy" process that they even had to pretend to go through.

I will first state that piracy is not acceptable whether or not the sat provider loses money.

I don't understand your posts. First you seem to suggest that Dish is doing the right thing in going after "legal" FTA people. Then you say that Dish shouldn't give any effort at all into stopping piracy. If my wife wants to watch Thai programming on our FTA system, it is none of Dish's business. If I want to purchase FTA equipment so that my wife can watch her Thai channels, it is none of Dish's business. It is however Dish's business to secure their signals so they do not provide access to unauthorized users who watch the programs from Dish's suppliers without paying. It is the companies that Dish has a contract with for programming that lose money. They should go after Dish heavily to get it stopped. Dish however should stop the problem and leave people who get alternate programming quite legally alone.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

Maybe we as SatelliteGuys members can start a letter writing campaign to the broadcasters and let them know whats up and ask them to ask Dish to fix their system.

Leave LEGAL Free To Air alone Dish!

 

[Stargazer]

If what stogie says is true then maybe Dish is mad because they are not making money on some of these FTA receivers over here because they are not manufacturer's participating in paying them their part. Maybe it's a cover up. Maybe Dish doesn't have anything to do with it and thinks this is a good way to stop a lot of the hack market. If Dish retailers don't sell the product then someone else will.

A lot of the people who pirate television would not pay for a subscription or wouldn't pay for those extra channels anyways. Some probably have a subscription as well so when their unit goes down they still have television. Some do it for a hobby or to get channels they cannot even subscribe to.

 

[Hall]

I will first state that piracy is not acceptable whether or not the sat provider loses money.

I didn't say it was "okay". I was following up on stogie's post regarding Dish being "in" with the piracy market.

I don't understand your posts. First you seem to suggest that Dish is doing the right thing in going after "legal" FTA people.

No, I didn't. Please quote where I said this. If you're referring to my reply to Scott regarding Echostar making FTA equipment, you're reading it completely wrong.

It is however Dish's business to secure their signals so they do not provide access to unauthorized users who watch the programs from Dish's suppliers without paying.

That's like saying if I don't lock my doors, you're allowed to walk in my house and steal stuff. I shouldn't have to lock my doors; Dish shouldn't have to (better) secure their signals. Sadly though, this is the world we live in. If I don't lock my doors, people are more likely to come in... If Dish doesn't secure their signal, people are more likely to steal it.

 

[ronjohn]

No, I didn't. Please quote where I said this. If you're referring to my reply to Scott regarding Echostar making FTA equipment, you're reading it completely wrong.

Your first three posts to me seemed to be attacking the arguments against Dish's actions. If I misinterpreted them, I am glad you don't feel that Dish is acting appropriately.

That's like saying if I don't lock my doors, you're allowed to walk in my house and steal stuff. I shouldn't have to lock my doors; Dish shouldn't have to (better) secure their signals. Sadly though, this is the world we live in. If I don't lock my doors, people are more likely to come in... If Dish doesn't secure their signal, people are more likely to steal it.

I would not say that if you don't lock your doors that people are allowed to steal from you. However, if you live in a large metropolitan area and don't lock your doors, you would be a fool to believe your stuff is secure.

 

[Hall]

My first post was disputing Scott's point that Echostar makes FTA equipment. The fact that it's European-market only effectively makes their manufacturing of said equipment a non-issue. If Echostar made and sold it here in the U.S., then they're being hypocrites.

My two follow-up posts were related to site sponsors who deal in both (or that I thought did).

 

[stogie5150]

If what stogie says is true then maybe Dish is mad because they are not making money on some of these FTA receivers over here because they are not manufacturer's participating in paying them their part. Maybe it's a cover up. Maybe Dish doesn't have anything to do with it and thinks this is a good way to stop a lot of the hack market. If Dish retailers don't sell the product then someone else will.

A lot of the people who pirate television would not pay for a subscription or wouldn't pay for those extra channels anyways. Some probably have a subscription as well so when their unit goes down they still have television. Some do it for a hobby or to get channels they cannot even subscribe to.

My own opinion and mine only, I could be wrong, I usually am wrong,BTW, is that the same folks who would steal E*, will, if E* secures their signal, move on to the next big thing. This struggle has been going on as long as there's been subscription TV. A guy in my 'hood still has a VCII black cage unit in his Uniden Analog receiver. He still thinks he can buy a 'hit' and get everything free like he used to. Dish hasn't been turned on for ten years....
If E* gets secured, there will be another 'way' that comes to light. There always is. I think, deep down, that is why they (E*) never bothered to do more. Because they all know that someone will break the next encryption. If E* was not so easy to get the hacker types WOULD be working on D*, you can bet your posterior on that. There's too much money in it.

Ever wonder how much a FTA receiver costs to make in quantity? I bet its less than 20.00 for the average SD box. Follow the money.

A couple weeks ago I went to a guy's house to buy something off of craigslist he had,he had his house lit up with 18 inch dishes and FTA receivers, all running BEV . I asked him if he knew it was illegal. his words, and I quote, " Its not illegal to get BEV, because its for Canada, I am getting the spillover. Only dish network is illegal. Besides, whatever is in the air is mine for the taking." I don't think that guy is gonna go run out and sign up if it were turned off tomorrow....

 

[Tyralak]

Please explain how it is a violation of anti-trust laws. All Dish is saying is that they will no longer do business with retailers who choose to continue selling FTA receivers. Dish is free to do business with whomever they wish.

Dish is demanding retailers stop carrying a competing product in order to not be penalised. They aren't demanding that retailers soley carry Dish, as they made no effort insist they stop carrying C-Band or D*. This is classic antitrust.