FTA in Chattanooga

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...The thing that is really puzzling me is that when I aim at 125W, my signal strengths between my two receivers are inconsistent. I'm using my Coolsat 6000 Premium to do the aiming, and I had 12163 peaked at 93%, which somehow still wasn't bringing in anything on 12150, but when I hooked it up to my TeVii S660 without touching anything else, it would show only about 32% on 12163. On the other hand, 12180 is at 94% on the Coolsat and blows the doors off my TeVii at 99% signal, so I don't really know what to make of the whole thing. I checked all my connections between the dish and the TeVii and can't find any obvious problems...
Don't make the mistake of comparing absolute quality readings between different receivers. The readings on each receiver are purely relative and have no absolute meaning for comparison with other receivers. My Coolsat 7000 may say Quality 25% and the video is perfectly watchable. My Openbox S9 will say Quality 60% for the same signal from the same feedline. Only use quality readings from a receiver to compare with the same receiver after, for example, you've re-oriented the dish.
 
No mistakes are being made; I'm very familiar with both receivers and know what numbers should be in order to compare the two. 30% on the TeVii means barely decoding, with breakups. At about 32% it stabilizes. Meanwhile 62% is barely decoding, with breakups, on the Coolsat, 65-66% is where it stabilizes. On one it's barely decoding while the other is basically maxed out.

- Trip
 
The dish seems to be my issue. I have my motor latitude set at 40 instead of 35 (my latitude is 35.00) because otherwise the dish won't get low enough in angle to see any satellites at all. But it does seem to be able to track as I definitely had it pulling in 30W to 125W in a single position before I took the whole thing apart and reassembled the motor assembly to use the other set of holes in the bracket, it just wasn't good enough for OETA and Montana PBS on 125W. I'm going to study your instructions and see if I can't make the dish assembly do what it needs to do.


Trip,

I think I just detected your error...
But it does seem to be able to track as I definitely had it pulling in 30W to 125W in a single position before I took the whole thing apart and reassembled the motor assembly to use the other set of holes in the bracket

There are different sets of holes and slots on some motors so that you can use the same motor at extreme latitudes. One set is for people who live closer to the equator and the other set is for those who are closer to the poles. You had it right the first time around. If everything that you are stating is absolutely correct, then I feel quite sure of this. This would also be the reason why you run out of physical or mechanical travel for your dish elevation - in order to get any signal to come in.

Put the motor bracket back the way it was at first and set your motor latitude back to ~35 degrees (or precisely to your site's latitude) and then let's work on the original problem regarding OETA HD and Montana PBS and other S2 stations. I believe that if it is possible to pull in these S2 signals with your equipment and your location, I can help you do so.

It is ABSOLUTELY critical that you set your motor to the proper latitude angle. Using the WRONG set of holes/slots will mess this up.

Your dish elevation should be one of these three angles (24.4°, 29.4° or 34.4°). This depends upon the bend angle on the motor tube. If the motor tube bend angle is 30°, the dish elevation should be 24.4°. If the tube bend is 35° the dish elevation should be 29.4° and if the tube bend is 40° it should be 34.4°. I don't know what the motor tube bend angle is on your motor, so I cannot tell you which one of these is correct.

RADAR
 
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Congrats on the new job! Is Luken still hiring? I would love to live in Chattanooga.

Thanks! And it depends on what job you would want to fill.

Trip,

I think I just detected your error...

There are different sets of holes and slots on some motors so that you can use the same motor at extreme latitudes. One set is for people who live closer to the equator and the other set is for those who are closer to the poles. You had it right the first time around. If everything that you are stating is absolutely correct, then I feel quite sure of this. This would also be the reason why you run out of physical or mechanical travel for your dish elevation - in order to get any signal to come in.

The transition point is right at 35 degrees. I could have used either set successfully. The angle looks to be the same now as it was when I was at 35 degrees before.

Put the motor bracket back the way it was at first and set your motor latitude back to ~35 degrees (or precisely to your site's latitude) and then let's work on the original problem regarding OETA HD and Montana PBS and other S2 stations. I believe that if it is possible to pull in these S2 signals with your equipment and your location, I can help you do so.

It is ABSOLUTELY critical that you set your motor to the proper latitude angle. Using the WRONG set of holes/slots will mess this up.

Your dish elevation should be one of these three angles (24.4°, 29.4° or 34.4°). This depends upon the bend angle on the motor tube. If the motor tube bend angle is 30°, the dish elevation should be 24.4°. If the tube bend is 35° the dish elevation should be 29.4° and if the tube bend is 40° it should be 34.4°. I don't know what the motor tube bend angle is on your motor, so I cannot tell you which one of these is correct.

RADAR

The dish elevation only goes down to about 25° as best I can tell (see the first picture in Post #16 of the thread), so if it's a 30° bend then I can't actually get the dish down to the necessary 24.4° unless I can just barely touch that number. I can't seem to find the degree of bending in the little manual that came with the SG9120B, but it would correspond to what I was observing in the first place.

- Trip
 
Trip,

OK, that is making sense (and giving me a better visual of the assembly). It sounds logical as when I was researching the motor, I noticed that the pictures of the motor tube seemed to reflect that the bend was very slight (it appeared quite straight in comparison to other motor tubes) so it may indeed have a 30° bend.

What brand/model dish are you using with this motor? I read several instances just while I was searching for information today where it was stated that a WS9036 dish was a recommended match for this motor.

RADAR
 
I just went outside and toyed with it, the dish will not go lower than 30°, that is its lowest point. By some random chance, when reaiming it when I was done trying that, I happened to land it right in the right spot for 125W (though it doesn't track the arc properly, with 97W being just about to fall off the cliff) so that I have OETA back. PBS is the single most important thing to me on FTA, so I am happy about that for the immediate future.

WS9036NE. It was in the Economy Pack from Galaxy Marketing, which I bought under the assumption the two pieces would work together (why else would they be bundled?). I may have to call up and complain about this issue.

The bigger issue is that I seem to have somehow accidentally left my Coolsat 6000 on the deck after I played with the dish on Saturday and storms rolled through last night. Even though it was as close to the building as possible, there were some pretty bad winds in those storms and it blew water onto/into it. I let it dry in front of the heater for a while (hour?), inspected it for any water, and finding none, turned it on. It came to life long enough for me to get the dish aimed and then it locked up when the signal came up and now it just lights both LED lamps and sometimes displays a single "8" on the front when I turn it on, sometimes displays nothing. I intend to let it dry some more and see if it will come back to life. I had long since stopped using it for watching TV, but it's great for dish aiming compared to the TeVii.

EDIT: It lives! Another hour in front of the heater apparently made it happy. I'm going to let it dry overnight before doing anything else with it.

- Trip
 
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Trip,

Hey, that sounds disturbing that the recommended dish of that motor is causing you so much conflict. It really shouldn't be that way.

You have the recommended dish and because of your location, you almost cannot use it. That's not right.

Are you absolutely certain that you assembled the dish assembly properly? I hate to question you like this, but something isn't right here. Double check your dish assembly (and your motor bracket assembly, too). There is something here that is being overlooked or something that is wrong.

My brother and I had a wild ride with a specific model dish once. It took us quite a while to figure out the error. On the same model dish we both had and bought at the same time, the arm that supports the LNBF was incorrectly bent from the factory. It took us months to determine this. It was close, but just not close enough. It threw the focal point of the LNB off. There may be many other possibilities for the error that you are detecting.Don't rule out and incorrect assembly or a improperly formed part.

I just don't fathom that you should run out of adjustment range on your setup. We need to call in help from someone who has the identical motor and dish assembly and pick their brain.

RADAR
 
I sent an e-mail to the gentleman who sent me the new motor bracket when I showed him the holes out of alignment, and asked if I had assembled something incorrectly. Perhaps he will have a solution for me.

- Trip
 
I just today got out to look at the dish. Turns out there was a second set of holes on the dish itself that I managed to miss when I was looking at it in the dark (shock, surprise). I moved it and that got the dish down low enough that I can now at least set the motor elevation correctly. I fought a little bit with it to get the DVB-S2 PBS feeds in and it tracks over to the RTV mux on 83W, but does not seem to get down to 72W or lower. It needs more work, certainly, but I'm pretty happy with it right at the moment. :)

- Trip
 
I just today got out to look at the dish. Turns out there was a second set of holes on the dish itself that I managed to miss when I was looking at it in the dark (shock, surprise). I moved it and that got the dish down low enough that I can now at least set the motor elevation correctly. I fought a little bit with it to get the DVB-S2 PBS feeds in and it tracks over to the RTV mux on 83W, but does not seem to get down to 72W or lower. It needs more work, certainly, but I'm pretty happy with it right at the moment. :)

- Trip

Hey Trip,

Sounds like you are starting to get a hand on your installation. You are headed in the right direction anyway. Glad to hear that your 6K is still working and I hope it continues to live, it is a beauty for a satellite signal meter! For a backyard dish farmer, the early model Coolsats (4K, 5K and 6K) are excellent satellite finding meters because they are so doggone easy to set up and their tuners are so quick to respond to a detected signal.

Try the following procedure to align your dish and motor now...

Start at your reference satellite (true south). Using USALS, with your most precise coordinates entered, drive the dish west to a satellite that you can still detect signal from and tweak the azimuth of the motor by turning the motor mount on the mast. Then, drive the dish east to the furthest satellite that you can still detect signal from and tweak the dish elevation. Then go back west to the furthest detectable satellite and tweak the azimuth, then back east to the furthest detectable satellite and tweak the dish elevation. Keep repeating this back and forth adjustment until you have covered the entire horizon.

Just ensure that you adjust one parameter ONLY on each side of the horizon. i.e. adjust the motor azimuth on the west and dish elevation on the east. You may reverse that, but stick with whatever you choose all the way through until done. This works really well for calibrating the dish alignment to match the arc.

Many people dial in on one satellite and pick out the TP that they happen to detect and adjust everything to peak the signal for maximum quality right there. Then they cannot understand why another satellite off to the left or right isn't coming in. That procedure is excellent for a single, fixed point dish, but not for a motorized system.

With a motorized system, you don't want to adjust the dish and motor angles to peak the signal from just one TP and one satellite, you want to adjust it to track the arc and PEAK IT to the arc. Some satellites or individual TPs may appear weak while doing this. Don't be swayed to adjust and peak for them! Get the whole arc peaked first. You have to ignore your gut instinct to get one satellite, one transponder or one channel peaked to perfection. You are calibrating your motor and dish to the entire arc, not just one satellite. Keep that in mind and you will find that everything falls into place naturally. It simply requires a lot of patience and some time. Don't get frustrated even if you make a mistake.

The most tedious and frustrating part is switching satellites and TPs on the IRD or meter. That is what takes up most of the time. I found that (especially with the Coolsats) it is very handy to create an alignment channel list. I create a list of satellites with only ONE TP on each that is known good (strong signal and broadcasted continuously - no feeds). This way, I can simply switch from sat to sat and it has to go to the same TP each time because there is nothing else to choose from. This speeds up the calibration process a great deal. You don't really have to have a channel scanned in, just the entry of a known active transponder is all that is required.

RADAR
 
ooopppssss. sent him a couple of pms but no reply yet. might drive by his place where he used to live. i don't think he moved from nebraska. charlie
 
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