FOOEY.... I lost LPB :-(

[B.J.]

Well after being happy that with only minimal tweaking, I got my Primestar relocated to where it can see AMC21, and being surprised that I was now getting the LPB DVB-S2 signal, plus another signal I hadn't been able to lock before, I seem to have lost LPB. :-(

I had been monitoring it for a couple days on both my Diamond and the TT-3200, and it was 98% solid on the Diamond, and 100% solid on the 3200, basically no errors.
Then, however, it got just a tad windy, and I noticed that on my Diamond, that the signal was going out periodically, just for a second or two. Then I remembered that I never tightened down the bolts on the Primestar, so I thought that perhaps the wind was moving it around. I was still getting error free reception on the 3200 BTW.
So I went outside, and did nothing more than tighten the bolts on the Primestar mount. Came back inside....... NO LPB ?#!#*%&^ I thought that perhaps the mount was changing elevation slightly when I tightened the bolts, so I took my computer outside to monitor signal level, and tried to peak the elevation, however I was already at the peak. Tried to peak the polarity, but again, already at the peak. Tried to peak azimuth.... already at the peak. The other main PBS channels are coming in fine, but no LPB.
Anyway, I don't know what the heck changed. I guess it's no big loss, because I don't think there is likely to be anything on those channels that aren't on the regular PBS channels, but it just bothers me that all I did was tighten the bolts and went from error free to NOTHING. Weird.
If the darn mosquitos and black files let up a bit, I might take a TV out there to get quicker meter response, and try again, but I had my wife watching inside, and she said that the channel never popped in through all my adjustments, so I'm not optimistic.
FOOEY.

 

[turbosat]

That's the best bet-take your tv out there and tweak carefully. I've got a couple of 84e primestars, one that I move around pretty often, and getting that one to stay at peak on a weak signal is like doing surgery. Tightening the mount bolts will pull it off the signal or cut the strength way down, will drive you batty trying to keep it exactly where you want. Sometimes I pull back on the top edge of the dish while I'm tightening those mount bolts to hold it steady. The more round primestars don't seem to be that touchy with the bolts on the mount.

 

[B.J.]

That's the best bet-take your tv out there and tweak carefully. I've got a couple of 84e primestars, one that I move around pretty often, and getting that one to stay at peak on a weak signal is like doing surgery. Tightening the mount bolts will pull it off the signal or cut the strength way down, will drive you batty trying to keep it exactly where you want. Sometimes I pull back on the top edge of the dish while I'm tightening those mount bolts to hold it steady. The more round primestars don't seem to be that touchy with the bolts on the mount.

I learned that pull back on top edge thing, more-so when adjusting, because mine has a bolt inside that tends to turn, when adjusting, if you don't lift up on the dish a bit, but I didn't try that when tightening.
I used to have another different style Primestar. Both it, and the one I have now, are fairly round, but the old one was heavier duty. I can't remember all the differences, but one difference was that the 3 lnbf arms attached directly to the LNBF instead of to a plastic lnbf holder. I can't remember how the adjusting mechanism worked on it though. That was back before there was any N.A. DVB stuff though, and I didn't think I needed the dish, and gave it away. Wish I still had that one.

 

[Mr Tony]

I've always had problems with LPBS...get it fine during the day but come around 6:00 at night the signal goes down and after 7:00ish its gone...till the next morning

like that distant AM daytime station

 

[B.J.]

I've always had problems with LPBS...get it fine during the day but come around 6:00 at night the signal goes down and after 7:00ish its gone...till the next morning

like that distant AM daytime station

I remembered you and others saying that, so I tried again in the morning, but it didn't come back for me. Maybe the darn mosquitos and blackflies got into the lnbf.

One other question though.... I'm curious relative to what the focal length of the various Primestar dishes is supposed to be? Reason I was curious is that after I put QPH031 in place of the Extreme, I noticed that the Invacom is so wide, that I think it sits a bit closer to the dish than the Extreme did, so I was wondering what distance it should be at. My current Primestar didn't have an LNBF when I pulled it out of a nearby transfer station (the plant manager has standing orders to save any 3' dishes for me), and as I mentioned above, the lnbf I have from my OLD Primestar connected directly to the LNBF, instead of using a holder, and it looks like if I had put my old LNB on this dish, it would be further back than my Invacom is.

 

[eurosport]

What size Primestar? I have a 1.2m CM/P* on AMC21 and LPB stays in the high 80's on quality all the time, on my Coolsat 8000.

 

[B.J.]

What size Primestar? I have a 1.2m CM/P* on AMC21 and LPB stays in the high 80's on quality all the time, on my Coolsat 8000.

I didn't realize that there were so many different Primestar dishes. The one I have now, is nearly circular, 36"x39" . The one I had before was also circular, but seemed to be a bit bigger, but that was a decade ago, so I'm not sure. I gave it, and a couple other dishes to a ham who was collecting dishes for new hams to use on AO40.

 

[Mr Tony]

BJ

Thats the 84e (40x30)...I have 3 of them
the 75e is 37x27 and there is the 1m round and 1.2m round

 

[B.J.]

BJ

Thats the 84e (40x30)...I have 3 of them
the 75e is 37x27 and there is the 1m round and 1.2m round

I thought maybe I measured wrong, but I just went out and checked, and it is definately 36x39 , not 40x30. I'm not sure which dimension is up in your 40x30, my dish is 39" high, and 36" wide.

I looked at the back, and it a Channel Master, and it says Mold # 90 M1

Looking at the versions you list, it sounds like maybe mine is your 1m round, although it's not quite round, and it's not quite 1M either. But it does say M1 on it.
I still think that my OLD Primestar was bigger than this one, but I don't think it was 1.2 meters, but if they over-estimate the dimensions, then maybe my old one WAS a 1.2... in which case I'm really unhappy that I gave that one away.

 

[eurosport]

I still think that my OLD Primestar was bigger than this one, but I don't think it was 1.2 meters, but if they over-estimate the dimensions, then maybe my old one WAS a 1.2... in which case I'm really unhappy that I gave that one away.

I have 2 of the 1.2 meter size. Awesome performers!

 

[turbosat]

BJ thats the 9/10 meter CM, I got one , the one I put the DG380 on. Only one I've ever seen.
The 1M say 1.0M-02 on the back and measure 40x43 so there's not much difference.

 

[B.J.]

BJ thats the 9/10 meter CM, I got one , the one I put the DG380 on. Only one I've ever seen.
The 1M say 1.0M-02 on the back and measure 40x43 so there's not much difference.

Thanks.... that makes sense. It is pretty much the same size as my 90CM Fortec. But wow, yet another type of Primestar dish. Wonder why they had so many?

While I'm posting, I should correct an error I made above. I said that my old Primestar had an lnbf that connected directly to the arms, instead of having a holder. I was wrong, that wasn't the Primestar lnbf, that was an lnbf from a VERY old pre-VCII analog pay service. I don't know what it was called, but I had a friend who subscribed, and he described it as a satellite cable service. Something like Primestar, but analog. I picked up both the dish, reveiver and lnbf from my friend. The lnbf was a General Instruments, as was the receiver. The receiver had 100 fixed KU channels, and a fixed audio frequency that didn't match any normal analog audio frequencies. I used it for a while using one of those satellite audio processors to give me the sound. I still have the lnbf and receiver, but I gave the dish away. It was at least a 1.2 meter, and VERY HEAVY, and the mount was very substantial. I think the service was on the old K1 satellite, because the guy said that after the service went bankrupt, he tuned the thing to another channel, and got NBC video, but no audio.
Anyway, that was the lnbf that had connection points right on the lnbf, so it didn't use a holder. My old Primestar lnbf did use a holder.

 

[eurosport]

The original, earliest form of Primestar was an analog Ku service that had about 11 or 12 channels IIRC, before the General Instruments D301 DCI receiver and Digicipher. That dish you have is probably from that first, early service.

 

[Mr Tony]

I thought maybe I measured wrong, but I just went out and checked, and it is definately 36x39 , not 40x30. I'm not sure which dimension is up in your 40x30, my dish is 39" high, and 36" wide.

mine are 40 wide x 30 high

 

[Tron]

Sounds like B.J. has the 90 CM "round" Primestar dish (made by Channel Master). Don't see many of those. Its the same shape and design of the 1 meter and 1.2 meter molds. I think Muzak used these at one point as well. It would be interesting to compare the performance of that dish to the 75e and 84e models. I imagine it would be roughly equivalent to the 84e, but with different sidelobe rejection properties.

 

[Larobpra]

Sounds like B.J. has the 90 CM "round" Primestar dish (made by Channel Master). Don't see many of those. Its the same shape and design of the 1 meter and 1.2 meter molds. I think Muzak used these at one point as well. It would be interesting to compare the performance of that dish to the 75e and 84e models. I imagine it would be roughly equivalent to the 84e, but with different sidelobe rejection properties.

My dish is the 90 CM "round" ChannelMaster. It originally was part of a BJLinc (Homesat) educational sat system. As they are discontinuing that service at the end of the month, there may be some of those dishes coming available.

My brother in law just brought me a 75E Primestar dish which I haven't had a chance to try out yet. I've got to get a pipe to mount it on first though.

 

[B.J.]

Originally Posted by B.J.
I thought maybe I measured wrong, but I just went out and checked, and it is definately 36x39 , not 40x30. I'm not sure which dimension is up in your 40x30, my dish is 39" high, and 36" wide.

mine are 40 wide x 30 high

Thanks. Your pictures got me thinking though. Your dishes are wider than high, obviously for them to receive two diffenent sats. However for most of it's life as a DTH service, Primestar was only on one satellite (either Satcom K1 at 85, or K2 at 81, but not both ). So why the need for 2 sats. I was trying to remember what the deal was with Primestar just before it went away, wondering whether they added a second sat or what, but I can't remember. The only thing that sticks in my mind, is that they were bought out by someone, perhaps DirecTV???? Perhaps these 2 sat Primestars were designed not to just receive Primestar, but to make the transition over to DirecTV easier??? Ie maybe the 2nd sat was the DTV 101 sat??? I can't remember.

Trying to remember, I pulled out my old Westsat charts, however I stopped receiving them sometime around 1998, and at that time Primestar was only on K2. In earlier years it was on K1. Perhaps there was a period of time when they were transitioning from K1 to K2, that they were giving out 2 satellite dishes???

Anyway, if anyone can remember, I'm curious.


Looking at the old Westsat charts got me thinking about something else. Up above, I mentioned that I had this big 4' Ku dish that was used for some analog DTH service (that I remembered being on K1), and I was confusing that dish with my "old" Primestar dish.....
Well in looking at the charts, it looks like this really WAS Primestar. I didn't think it was, because the service I was thinking of was an analog service, prior to VCII, let alone DCII. Well, it turns out that Primestar was initially an analog service using BMAC encryption on K1. This was also back before the Ku sats got real powerful, so you'd probably need a 1.2 M dish to receive it.
Anyway, I'm starting to think that the old 4' dish I had was in fact a 1.2M Primestar, although I don't think it had any marking on it at all.

Wishing that I hadn't given those dishes away, although doing so did give me some points with the XYL, which allowed me to purchase other equipment (and being retired, and her being the breadwinner, her opinion was important ) .
But I still remember when the guy came to pick up those dishes. I had talked to this fellow, and told him that I had one dish that he could take, and he came with a pickup, but once here, I ended up giving him both Ku dishes, plus a TINY dish, that I don't have a clue what IT was for. It was about the size of a DTV dish, but had no LNB or LNA, but instead had a tube that came from the center of the dish out to the focal point, and this tube terminated at the back of the dish with a big So239 (I think that's the number ) connector (ie the things you use with RG8 cable). (Actually, it might have been an "N" connector.)
I'm guessing that this might have been a terrestrial dish not a sat dish.

 

[Mr Tony]

Thanks. Your pictures got me thinking though. Your dishes are wider than high, obviously for them to receive two diffenent sats. However for most of it's life as a DTH service, Primestar was only on one satellite (either Satcom K1 at 85, or K2 at 81, but not both ). So why the need for 2 sats. I was trying to remember what the deal was with Primestar just before it went away, wondering whether they added a second sat or what, but I can't remember.

They were going to add a second satellite at T4 89W. There is some pics of those floating around here

The only thing that sticks in my mind, is that they were bought out by someone, perhaps DirecTV???? Perhaps these 2 sat Primestars were designed not to just receive Primestar, but to make the transition over to DirecTV easier??? Ie maybe the 2nd sat was the DTV 101 sat??? I can't remember.

DirecTv bought them and converted everyone within a couple months. We were one of them but were in a Pegasus area (they resold DirecTV and you couldnt get D* directly) so we switched to Dish.

Looking at the old Westsat charts got me thinking about something else. Up above, I mentioned that I had this big 4' Ku dish that was used for some analog DTH service (that I remembered being on K1), and I was confusing that dish with my "old" Primestar dish.....
Well in looking at the charts, it looks like this really WAS Primestar. I didn't think it was, because the service I was thinking of was an analog service, prior to VCII, let alone DCII. Well, it turns out that Primestar was initially an analog service using BMAC encryption on K1. This was also back before the Ku sats got real powerful, so you'd probably need a 1.2 M dish to receive it.
Anyway, I'm starting to think that the old 4' dish I had was in fact a 1.2M Primestar, although I don't think it had any marking on it at all.

that sounds about right. I've got a chart somewhere stored that shows that info too

 

[Mr Tony]

found it

 

[B.J.]

found it

I'm curious, what year was that chart from?
I notice it describes one of the transponders as videocipher. My charts show BMAC encryption up to around 1993, then in 1995 Primestar pretty much had the whole K1 satellite in Digicipher, and later to K2, and now I see they were also on AMC2 Ku.
Just wondering if the VCI mentioned in your list is the same as the BMAC indicated in my list, or if there was a transition somewhere in 1994 or something?
The channels listed in your list match those on my 1993 and before lists, but they list them as BMAC.