FIRST LOOK - Logitech Revue GoogleTV Device

[Visitor]

What exactly are you going to use google for? PORN ? I mean seriously what is the search feature for if not for network and cable shows that most people watch weekly. Movies ? I have netflix for that and I don't need Google tv for that. I have playon over my 922 and it works fine for no monthly fee to DISH other than the sling fee. You tube I can get from playon too.

Why are you assuming that everyone has the same set-up as you? Some people may not have playon or another box to play netflix on tv. I don't think GoogleTV is meant for people who already have equivalent things, but when I read something like "what would you use it for because I certainly wouldn't have use for it since I own all this other stuff" - I think that's presuming an awful lot.

Frankly - if watching network programming was my SOLE purpose, I wouldn't be buying GoogleTV or any other device for that. I record what I want to see, and for things I miss - which isn't many - I just watch it on my computer. For me - I personally don't see the appeal to watch network programming like that. There isn't anything presently in GoogleTV that I personally need since I have other things to cover it - but other people may not and GoogleTV might just work well for them.

But maybe someone wants to surf the net on my television screen. Maybe someone doesn't want to have a computer turned on for playon to work. Maybe someone wants to watch Netflix on their TV and has no other means right now.

It just seems that so many people feel that if it's not something that offers anything to them - then it must mean that it doesn't offer anything to anyone else.

 

[MikeD-C05]

Why are you assuming that everyone has the same set-up as you? Some people may not have playon or another box to play netflix on tv. I don't think GoogleTV is meant for people who already have equivalent things, but when I read something like "what would you use it for because I certainly wouldn't have use for it since I own all this other stuff" - I think that's presuming an awful lot.

Frankly - if watching network programming was my SOLE purpose, I wouldn't be buying GoogleTV or any other device for that. I record what I want to see, and for things I miss - which isn't many - I just watch it on my computer. For me - I personally don't see the appeal to watch network programming like that. There isn't anything presently in GoogleTV that I personally need since I have other things to cover it - but other people may not and GoogleTV might just work well for them.

But maybe someone wants to surf the net on my television screen. Maybe someone doesn't want to have a computer turned on for playon to work. Maybe someone wants to watch Netflix on their TV and has no other means right now.

It just seems that so many people feel that if it's not something that offers anything to them - then it must mean that it doesn't offer anything to anyone else.

My point was that if you had the 922 and had playon application working with Netflix and Hula , there wouldn't really be a need for the google application and an extra $4.00 a month to integrate it with your Dish dvr,especially if google isn't working with Hula or have access to three of the main networks. But if you had no 922 then I humbly apologize to you, if this somehow offended you and your obvious thin skin.

 

[MikeD-C05]

I was really excited about the Revue and have been anxiously awaiting its release. In fact, I pre-ordered two: one for my family room from Amazon and one for my bedroom from Dish. Both were set to replace my two Apple TVs (both hacked and running Boxee and XBMC). After two days using the one from Amazon, I'm really thinking of returning it and canceling the Dish order. Here are my main concerns right now:

1) Picture quality. The HDMI pass-through is really degrading the picture - a great deal of blockiness and artifacting. I've dropped my 922 down to 720p and that has helped somewhat, but it is not an acceptable long-term solution. It mystifies me as to how this problem could get past the testing phase.

2) No actual support for any media formats. The Revue was advertised to handle .avi, mpeg and .wmv. Support for .wmv was pulled, apparently at the last minute. Moreover, I've thrown a bunch of .avi and mpeg files at it and none would play. And browsing the web, the lack of support for quicktime because quickly evident. This is such a step backward from Boxee and XBMC. It even pales in comparison to my game consoles.

3) Network content blocking. Again, how Google didn't see this one coming is beyond me.

4) Poor app selection/quality. There really is very little to play with right now on GTV, and the apps which are available are bareboned at best. The Twitter client is a joke compared to the one on Boxee, the Netflix app is antiquated, and the HBO app works if you subscribe to the network from one of only two cable providers. if you have services with Dish Network, DirectTV, Time Warner, etc. . . . the HBO app is worthless. The streaming quality of the Netflix app is also subpar compared to that of my PS3.

5) Terrible networking abilities. My Apple TVs could find my Wireless N network immediately and reported back full signal strength. Furthermore, all of the laptops in our household have no problem getting on my N network. The Revue doesn't even find my N network at all, so I had to alter my plans and go ethernet. When I do a speed test using the GTV browser, it reports that I am downloading at 12-14mb, yet when I try to stream video from Amazon, I get downgraded to the lowest quality because Amazon reports that I have insufficient bandwidth. I am also completely unable to play HD content, as the stuttering is unbearable.

6) Harmony support. The Harmony app on my Evo works ok (took a while to get it going), but my Harmony One remote will not control the Revue at all. This despite having been told by Logitech that it would work.

Now I fully realize that I'm an early adopter and bugs are to be expected. But some of the problems are inexcusable. The key factor for me will be how quickly Google and Logitech push out updates. I hate to keep going back to Apple for comparison, but the new Macbook Air models hit the stores Thur/Fri and Apple already release an update to fix a few fairly insignificant (in comparison to GTV) bugs. Will we see an update from Google/Logitech this week?

Thanks for the revue. It should remind all of us that if you are a new tech adapter you will have bugs and shortcomings in any new device. Maybe you saved some of us from the pain of being a beta tester for this google box.

 

[Visitor]

That's interesting because it seemed that you were directly asking what someone would use it for when you yourself has no use for it because you had the 922. I am not sure which lines I were supposed to read between to gather all that. There is no need to apologize since I had already said I am not interested in GoogleTV since I had things that did what I wanted, but I'll accept it anyway. After all, I have a thin skin.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

1) Picture quality. The HDMI pass-through is really degrading the picture - a great deal of blockiness and artifacting. I've dropped my 922 down to 720p and that has helped somewhat, but it is not an acceptable long-term solution. It mystifies me as to how this problem could get past the testing phase.

You are correct about this, I noticed the same thing myself and actually so did my wife. I went into the settings and changed the output to 1080i which corrected the issue. The up-conversion that the Revue does to 1080p is not that great.

2) No actual support for any media formats. The Revue was advertised to handle .avi, mpeg and .wmv. Support for .wmv was pulled, apparently at the last minute. Moreover, I've thrown a bunch of .avi and mpeg files at it and none would play. And browsing the web, the lack of support for quicktime because quickly evident. This is such a step backward from Boxee and XBMC. It even pales in comparison to my game consoles.

It does say that on the video playback screen that "Video playback is now in beta. Some video formats are not supported." To me the ENTIRE Logitech Media Player is the the biggest downfall of the entire unit. It does not do what its supposed to do... well or for that matter even good. But with that said I do expect it to get better. The hardware is good, just this part of the software needs to get better.

4) Poor app selection/quality. There really is very little to play with right now on GTV, and the apps which are available are bareboned at best. The Twitter client is a joke compared to the one on Boxee, the Netflix app is antiquated, and the HBO app works if you subscribe to the network from one of only two cable providers. if you have services with Dish Network, DirectTV, Time Warner, etc. . . . the HBO app is worthless. The streaming quality of the Netflix app is also subpar compared to that of my PS3.

I went into this box knowing that there wouldn't be many apps and knowing that downloadable apps wouldn't be available to next year. I will say however I am disappointed as well in the Netflix app it only plays whats already in your queue, you can not select movies or shows you want in the app. This should all be in the app like it is on Roku and the PS3. But again this is software not hardware and it can and will be improved.

5) Terrible networking abilities. My Apple TVs could find my Wireless N network immediately and reported back full signal strength. Furthermore, all of the laptops in our household have no problem getting on my N network. The Revue doesn't even find my N network at all, so I had to alter my plans and go ethernet. When I do a speed test using the GTV browser, it reports that I am downloading at 12-14mb, yet when I try to stream video from Amazon, I get downgraded to the lowest quality because Amazon reports that I have insufficient bandwidth. I am also completely unable to play HD content, as the stuttering is unbearable.

I did not use wireless on mine its plugged into the network.

 

[MikeD-C05]

That's interesting because it seemed that you were directly asking what someone would use it for when you yourself has no use for it because you had the 922. I am not sure which lines I were supposed to read between to gather all that. There is no need to apologize since I had already said I am not interested in GoogleTV since I had things that did what I wanted, but I'll accept it anyway. After all, I have a thin skin.

IF you have no interest in the google tv then why did you bother to comment to me on anything I said at all?

 

[farmsatguy]

Hey Scott, givin the expected take off of this type of device, be it in the form of the Revue, built-in to a HDTV, or whatever, do you think you might start another forum focused just on the Google TV product line? Maybe a sub-forum like the one you have for the 922 or perhaps its own entity from the main forum list. Might be a great place for everyone to share experiences, compare notes, talk about things they can do with it, etc? I firmly believe (heh, what do i know?) that this type of product may finally start a revolution to the way we watch TV.

Also, I'm curious about something else? I understand that we (eventually) can order a Revue unit thru Dish for $179 and buy additional units wherever (like BestBuy) for $300. Does the $4 fee cover any/all units we have (like the DVR fee we pay which covers all DVR's on the account)? Or will it be similar to the old DVR fee where we pay $4 per Revue regardless of where it came from? Or, finally, will it be that we can only have one Revue on the account (atleast to start)? I have three 722's and I'd love to have two of these Revue's - like you, I've been looking forward to it since I first heard about it. I almost bought one in Best Buy at launch but decided to wait to see how it plays out - didn't want to screw myself outta getting one for $179 worrying that my third option for the $4 fee may be the case. Sorry for so many questions, but I feel like a kid a few days before Christmas just KNOWING that I'm getting favorite new toy soon!!!

Finally, to all the nay-sayers complaining that Dish is behind the ball yet again by not having this ready for sale, it's not hard to figure out that Google/Logitech/Sony (even Dish perhaps) wants to capitalize on as much $$$ as possible and purposely set the launch thru Dish Network a little behind for those folks who "just gotta run out and get it" as soon as it's available. Honestly, as much as I wanna spend that $179, I don't blame them. Might as well get what they can, eventually they'll be just about giving them away like most products that really take off. Just my two cents... (of course, my wife would tell you I don't have ANY cents (sense) at all.....)

Thanks in advance.

 

[myron243]

Here are a few thoughts after playing with mine today on my 922.

I was able to watch an episode of Chase on NBC.com this morning. I watched a few minutes of a full episode of Blue Bloods on CBS.com and a few minutes of Good Guys on Fox.com so all nets are not blocking Google TV. The message on ABC said this platform is not supported so maybe they will in the future. And watching an episode in full screen on my big screen beats watching on one of my monitors.

I really enjoy having Pandora playing in the background while typing this. And while this certainly won't be my main road to the w3bz it's neat to be able to pop up the PIP for whatever program for a few minutes while I check email.

As for the Netflix app it is way clunky and a pain to use. So I just bring up Chrome and away I go. Full service Netflix. And it's bookmarked now. The only time I might use the app is to stream one of my instant movies.

There are a few things that could be changed on the remote/keyboard but basically it's like anything else. I need to learn it and get the feel for it.

I don't think I will pay the integration fee. The little keyboard/remote has the basic keys including menu, DVR and most of the transport keys. I do misss the 30 second skip though.

And as has been pointed out this is the first generation of a vastly improved WebTV But I like it. And I even paid the Amazon price in order to get it. I'll probably get one from Dish for the bedroom 622 when they become available.

 

[BobMurdoch]

Without access to the big three networks programming , it would really not be any use to any customer , much less DISH subs. No Hula , no network programming, I really don't see any use for it now.

Engadget has a link which states that the GTV unit has a setting that disables the flag that tells the site it is a GTV box, which will circumvent the blackout. Unless they disable the free TV for everyone, you will be able to get around this limitation with one setting change, that can be switched back on when you want to reenable any GTV enabled sites.

 

[cditty]

My 'hands on' with this product today was very disappointing. It feels very rushed and unpolished. However, it being Google, I do have faith that it will be fixed and end up being a great product. Unlike Dish, they tend to fix things quickly.

 

[Mike_H]

Last report I heard was Hulu figured out the hack for GTV, and has once again blocked it.

 

[meStevo]

Engadget has a link which states that the GTV unit has a setting that disables the flag that tells the site it is a GTV box, which will circumvent the blackout. Unless they disable the free TV for everyone, you will be able to get around this limitation with one setting change, that can be switched back on when you want to reenable any GTV enabled sites.

Yeah, that's called the user agent, basically it's how browsers identify themselves... so sites know if they are serving content to a mobile or a PC user with IE 6 (just threw up in my mouth a little typing that). I believe with that circumvented (most browsers you can easily install plugins to change your user agent, some have it built in like GTV's Chrome) you can use Flash or something to determine the same thing... and don't think there's a user agent spoofing thing for Flash (if that's what's actually being done)

 

[meStevo]

A video of my problem (as I misspell satelliteguys, heh)

 

[DustoMan]

I was able to watch an episode of Chase on NBC.com this morning. I watched a few minutes of a full episode of Blue Bloods on CBS.com and a few minutes of Good Guys on Fox.com so all nets are not blocking Google TV. The message on ABC said this platform is not supported so maybe they will in the future. And watching an episode in full screen on my big screen beats watching on one of my monitors.

Heh. It's been a while since I've watched video on ABC.com, but I wonder if the only reason why it doesn't work is because they require a special plug-in to watch video. Really funny that you were able to still see videos in light of what was put out last week about the big networks. Makes me wonder if anyone actually took the time to do any fact checking.

1) Picture quality. The HDMI pass-through is really degrading the picture - a great deal of blockiness and artifacting. I've dropped my 922 down to 720p and that has helped somewhat, but it is not an acceptable long-term solution. It mystifies me as to how this problem could get past the testing phase.

5) Terrible networking abilities. My Apple TVs could find my Wireless N network immediately and reported back full signal strength. Furthermore, all of the laptops in our household have no problem getting on my N network. The Revue doesn't even find my N network at all, so I had to alter my plans and go ethernet. When I do a speed test using the GTV browser, it reports that I am downloading at 12-14mb, yet when I try to stream video from Amazon, I get downgraded to the lowest quality because Amazon reports that I have insufficient bandwidth. I am also completely unable to play HD content, as the stuttering is unbearable.

6) Harmony support. The Harmony app on my Evo works ok (took a while to get it going), but my Harmony One remote will not control the Revue at all. This despite having been told by Logitech that it would work.

1) Well this is disappointing. When I first heard about the whole pass through idea, I was a little worried about video degradation. Does anyone know if the SonyTV/BluRay player has the same performance. I would expect more people to complain about that then their audio getting down-mixed to 2-channel stereo. Hopefully this can be fixed in software and it's not a hardware limitation like another box we all love to hate.

5) Just curious if your N-wireless is running at 5Ghz? If so, that would be the reason it's not seeing your network and the AppleTV and laptop computers all do. I had my N-wireless running at 5Ghz until I traded in my old Xbox 360 for one of the newer quieter slimmer models that happens to only support wireless networks running at 2.8Ghz. Kinda a bummer.

6) Looking at the Logitech forums some people are having issues getting the Harmony One to work. It does support it, but you have to make sure to enable it on the Revue and add the Revue by looking under Video Recorder -> PVR Select Logitech as the Manufacturer and type Revue as the model.

Oh and someone in the message thread mentioned that the Sony box is controlled using Bluetooth (!?) and can't be controlled by universal remotes. (At least we won't be in that boat.)

That said, I'm hoping that Logitech allows Google to push updates in their signature Google-ly way. I love that my Google Chrome just updates itself and extensions without you knowing it and that Android 2.2 can be configured to update software as updates are posted to the Market without any user interaction. At the risk of sounding corny or Apple-ly, it makes using software magical.

 

[Scott Greczkowski]

1) Well this is disappointing. When I first heard about the whole pass through idea, I was a little worried about video degradation.

Again this can be fixed by going into the Revue settings and changing the output resolution from 1080p to 1080i.

 

[DustoMan]

Again this can be fixed by going into the Revue settings and changing the output resolution from 1080p to 1080i.

I'm know.... It's not a deal breaker for me. Just kinda, "Oh well." :shrugs

Here's what the inside looks like in case anyone is curious:

Logitech Revue Teardown - iFixit

 

[myron243]

I don't think ABC is blocking Google TV so much as not supporting it. And yes, there is a difference. I can't watch ABC videos on my EVO with Android 2.2 or my iPod Touch with the itty bitty Safari version. I can get an app for the iPad which may work on the Touch.

The very first requirement listed on ABC is Adobe Flash Player 10.0 or later.The list of supported browsers for ABC of course lists IE and FF and includes Safari 3.0 (Mac only) or later and Chrome 3.0 (Adobe Flash playback only). The OS list is comprised of Windows XP or later, MAC OS X 10.4 or later, LinuAdobe Flash playback only). So we Googlers aren't the only ones who can't watch vids on ABC. Maybe next year there will be an app developed just like there is currently an app for iPad.

As for picture quality, as Scott pointed out you have to select the resolution you want. The choices are 720p, 1080i or 1080p. There is no native, natural or anything else. I have mine set at 1080p and it looks fine. At least to my 73 year old eyes that have replacement lenses in 'em.

Networking? Well, my router is upstairs at the back of the house. My Revue is downstairs about 15 feet or so closer to the front of the house. Them electrons just snaked their way right through the floor and around the fireplace and bingo. Instant connectivity. Just went to Speedtest.net using the Chrome on the Review and got 9.1 down and .88 up on a 10/1 cable system..

 

[davpel]

5) Just curious if your N-wireless is running at 5Ghz? If so, that would be the reason it's not seeing your network and the AppleTV and laptop computers all do. I had my N-wireless running at 5Ghz until I traded in my old Xbox 360 for one of the newer quieter slimmer models that happens to only support wireless networks running at 2.8Ghz. Kinda a bummer.

Ugh. What an idiot I am. For some reason, I never even considered that possibility. Very disappointing though. Most of the better N routers allow for operating a t 5Ghz and in homes like mine (with tons of interference at 2.4ghz), it is a necessity. The way I'm getting around it now is by using a Netgear wireless bridge operating at 5Ghz and then connecting the GTV to the bridge via ethernet.

6) Looking at the Logitech forums some people are having issues getting the Harmony One to work. It does support it, but you have to make sure to enable it on the Revue and add the Revue by looking under Video Recorder -> PVR Select Logitech as the Manufacturer and type Revue as the model.

I have already enabled the Harmony in the GTV settings and set up the remote for GTV in the manner you described. No luck. What is strange is that about half of the people on the Logitech forums report this as working, the other half not.

 

[davpel]

Again this can be fixed by going into the Revue settings and changing the output resolution from 1080p to 1080i.

Will check my settings, Scott. Thanks. If this works, certainly better than changing the output on my Dish box.

 

[davpel]

Networking? Well, my router is upstairs at the back of the house. My Revue is downstairs about 15 feet or so closer to the front of the house. Them electrons just snaked their way right through the floor and around the fireplace and bingo. Instant connectivity. Just went to Speedtest.net using the Chrome on the Review and got 9.1 down and .88 up on a 10/1 cable system..

My Speedtest.net results are comparable (actually even better) to yours. However, I still can't play HD content without stuttering or get the Amazon app to recognize that I have decent speeds. Can you try those things on your end? Go into the Amazon app and pick a non-HD show. You don't need to buy it -- just preview one. Please report back on the picture quality and note at the bottom right of the video what Amazon reports as your connectivity and video quality. As for HD content, go to NBC.com and pick a recent show. I used Community. It will initially start streaming in SD. Manually switch over to HD and then check whether you are able to watch without constant stuttering. I'd love to know whether (1) there is merely a problem on my end (2) whether decent streaming quality is even possible on the GTV over wireless or (3) whether these are software issues relating to the Amazon app, etc. (this last possibility seems the most likely given the Speedtest results I get in the Chrome browser).

Thanks.