FIOS or DISH -- Which should I choose?

[Hoopnoop]

I have the good fortune of having FIOS TV in my area and recently got it installed. I was very excited about getting FIOS given everything that I'd heard about their picture quality on both HD and SD channels. I've had the service about a week now and have to admit some disappointment in that the HD picture quality is on par (perhaps slightly better) compared with my previous provider (Adelphia) and the picture quality of some of the SD channels is lacking. Frankly, it has a very similar look and feel to my old cable provider but with a few added HD channels. I also have the Motorola 6416 and it is a decent HD DVR but from what I've read the Dish 622 has some advantages. My main interest is in watching HD channels.

I did not have Dish previously due to line of site problems but now have worked that out. I am a former Voomer and miss the Voom channels. Dish is now apparently going to add INHD as well which is one of my favorite channels (FIOS is rumored to add additional HD channels as well but nothing is confirmed yet). But, of course, there is HD Lite from Dish which concerns me, especially with respect to channels like HDNETMOVIES. FIOS is pretty much guaranteed not to downrez any of their HD channels including any that they might add in the future. Despite this, I am tempted to give Dish a try so that I can enjoy my Voom channels again along the rest of their HD line-up.

I'm really on the fence on this one. Can anyone give me some useful thoughts to get me off the fence?

thanks

 

[Tom in TX]

I have been a Dish customer for 8+ years. I have two 942's. I was interested in FiOS, so I put my Dish account on "pause" and signed up for FiOS.
It lasted one month, before I cancelled it and went back to Dish.

The 942 , and I would assume the 622, are VASTLY superior HD DVR's!
The picture quality was excellent with FiOS, but I just couldn't live with their box, and the remote sucked too. There is no 30 second skip ahead, and the skip back was too short. The menus were not as nice as Dish's either. Recording options more limited than Dish's.
These are just my opinions - some people might rellay like the FiOS service. I did not.

Tom in TX

 

[bhelms]

Can you find an acquaintance with E* HD and have a look for yourself to see if the PQ is acceptable to you on the down-rezzed voom channels? That will give you a good idea what you can expect for the future, presumably including INHD. Maybe if you post a zip code someone in your area who's helpful will be willing to let you have a look...

Tom in TX - How would you compare the PQ between "excellent FIOS" and E*...?

 

[Tom in TX]

Tom in TX - How would you compare the PQ between "excellent FIOS" and E*...?

The PQ on SD channels was somewhat better with FiOS. The HD on FiOS was excellent.
With my 942's, I great OTA reception, with just an occasional "blip", and the PQ on that is excellent. On Dish's HD channels, it was perhaps a little less than FiOS. It's hard to say, when I didn't do a side-by-side comparison. But I have no issues with PQ from Dish. I haven't watched HDnet lately, to see if the PQ has declined, as I've read in this forum.

Tom in TX

 

[Hoopnoop]

I do have a neighbor who just got Dish HD and I'm planning to do some comparisons of certain channels tonight. I want to see if Dish HD channels are comparable in HD quality compared to FIOS. I would sure hate to switch and experience a noticeable drop in PQ. But if Tom is right, it's not a big difference.

 

[StevenD]

Dish.

Verizon's current DVRs suck!

 

[riffjim4069]

I can only offer you my opinion...

First, I had Adelphia cable service and I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Most of the SD channels were analog and looked horrible beyond belief. The digital SD channels were on par with E*.

However, Adelphia typically places three HD channels per QAM256 channel (38Mb), but the cherry picker variable rate muxes do a pretty good job. The PQ was typically as good as DishHD full bitrate HD channels (1920x1080i and 1280x720p), but there were so few of them on Adelphia, the picture would often break up with the HD channels (problem with their infrastructure), service was unreliable (would lose cable service during a storm when VOOM DBS and E* wouldn't miss a beat), and customer service was awful.

Again, Adelphia HD PQ is the same as full bitrate DishHD and probably very similar to FiOS HD. All the bandwidth in the world is not going to improve a problem at the source. Garbage in, garbage out...I just want the provider to pass along the same signal they receive.

Plus, and here is the kicker, the Adelphia hardware was complete junk. I used their SA8000HD and SA8300HD DVRs and, while the SA8300HD was a step up, it was still 12 steps behind the Dish 942 and 622 HD DVRs. I won't even go into how horrible my Adelphia broadband service has been over the years. I've played with the FiOS HD DVR, which was too similar to my parents Comcast Motorola HD DVR...let's just say losing my 622s would not be easy.

VOOM: I like VOOM content, but the PQ is not nearly as good as it used to be. Losing the VOOM channels is also for a factor in my book.

Other than the introduction of HD-Lite, I can't complain too much about my DishHD experience (I love the 622). They currently offer both the most, and best packaged, HD lineup on the market. I've seen and played with FiOS and here are my observations:

SD PQ - most channels are better than E*
HD PQ - the best! Some E* channels look as good, but not all
HD DVR - ok, FiOS needs work in this area: Motorola hardware works much better than the Adelphia stuff, but it is pale in comparison to the 942/622. On a positive note, quite a number of improvements are being made via software: EPG, VOD, etc. and they appear to be making progress in this area.
Reliability - ain't gonna beat FiOS.
Price - depending on package and equipment it is anywhere from the same price to 20% less for FiOS.
HD Selection - more HD locals (8 in the DC area) on FiOS, but much less national HD channels at present. However, FiOS has said it is their plan to offer all HD channels (contracts), and they certainly have the bandwidth to deliver.
OTA Antenna - I have two OTA antennas and receive programming from four DMAs: DC, Richmond, Baltimore, and Charlottesville. I love how the 622s integrate OTA into the EPG! I love my antennas! FiOS would have to offer both DC and Richmond HD locals in my area (local cable offers both analog locals, but only DC HD). In any case, I would really miss my antennas!

My bottom Line: the PQ and price for FiOS can't be beat. The HD quantity is currently lacking when compared to DishHD, but they are working on adding more channels. I really don't have many DishHD reliability problems, but having reliable broadband is a huge factor in my book. The HD DVR works ok, but if you're used to a 942/622 it will be a little frustrating until improvements can be made. Also, FiOS just announced a new multi-room (whole home) HD DVR.

FiOS broadband is not available in my area (friend who lives 4 miles away has it), but TV service it not. Of course, their local CO is ready to provide TV service and it is only a matter a few days or weeks before Verizon in awarded a cable TV franchise in Spotsylvania County. It's was a no brainer for my friend to up dump Adelphia broadband and with with FiOS (roughly the same price for 15/2 vice 3/384k). My friend also has DishHD and the 622 (which he loves) so he'll be facing the same decision in the near future.

As it stands right now, I would be more inclined to keep my DishHD subscription while I evaluate FiOS TV...of course, broadband is a no-brainer. But I have another year before FiOS is available in my neighborhood. Hopefully FiOS will improve their hardware, software, EPG, and added more HD by that time.

 

[Tom in TX]

Hopefully FiOS will improve their hardware, software, EPG, and added more HD by that time.

When I cancelled my FiOS, they left all the "equipment", except for the Set top boxes, so, if I ever want to re-sign, it will be a snap.
But until major improvements are made, I'm sticking with Dish.

Tom in TX

 

[Hoopnoop]

Great comments Riff and right on point! I also love my antennas and use my Sony HDD500 box with them along with my current FIOS set up. You can't beat the huge space on the HDD500! I actually made attempt to use the Fios Cablecard with the Sony box but it failed on the first go round. I have an appointment to try again. But, like you, I would also love to integrate my OTA channels with the 622 Dish HD DVR. I generally prefer my local HDs OTA as I feel the picture quality is better that way. And I do miss those Voom channels!

I have one question about future FIOS HD channels. You say that FIOS has contracts with all the HD providers. I had heard that they were going to add other HD channels but had thought that INHD and Voom were speculation at this point. Do they have contracts for these channels? That would make a big difference for me.

 

[riffjim4069]

I have one question about future FIOS HD channels. You say that FIOS has contracts with all the HD providers. I had heard that they were going to add other HD channels but had thought that INHD and Voom were speculation at this point. Do they have contracts for these channels? That would make a big difference for me.

Verizon has publicly mentioned it was their goal to provide customers with every channel on the market, but the assumption is that they are fairly priced. Offhand, I don't know why they don't carry the VOOM HD channels. I don't think it's the price...I can only assume they are currently a Dish Network exclusive in the US Market.

 

[riffjim4069]

Great comments Riff and right on point! I also love my antennas and use my Sony HDD500 box with them along with my current FIOS set up. You can't beat the huge space on the HDD500! I actually made attempt to use the Fios Cablecard with the Sony box but it failed on the first go round. I have an appointment to try again. But, like you, I would also love to integrate my OTA channels with the 622 Dish HD DVR. I generally prefer my local HDs OTA as I feel the picture quality is better that way. And I do miss those Voom channels!

I too have a Sony HDD500 HD DVR. I dump a lot of OTA stuff out to it, but I prefer to use my 622s as much as possible. Man, I really love using the 622...will probably stick with E* unless their HD PQ continues to tank.

HD Channels: with the exception of the 15 VOOM HD channels, here is how they compare:

- Dish Network has FoodHD and HGTV HD
- FiOS TV has WealthTV HD, MTV HD, Cinemax HD, and TMC HD
- Dish Network has four HD locals
- FiOS TV has eight HD locals

I subscribe to HD Platinum, but that's only because it's actually cheaper to get everything vice two premium channels due to multiple DVR fees being waived with the Platinum Pak. Making a direct price comparison is more difficult because the FiOS movie pack consists of Showtime, Starz, and TMC (cheap!), while HBO and Cinemax are much more expensive. Whereas E* actually makes it cheaper to subscribe to all premiums vice just Showtime and Starz. Anyway, here is my pricing with DVRs and fees:

DishHD Platinum $122.94 (don't need HBO/MAX...basically the same price without)
FiOS TV with Sports/Movie Pack and unwanted HBO/MAX $118.70
FiOS TV with Sports/Movie Pack only $93.75

As you can see, the saving between Platinum and FiOS everything is minimal and I would most likely keep DishHD, assuming they quit HD-Lite and don't raise prices. However, the reality is that I'm going to subscribe to the $93.75 package...that's a difference huge difference of $29.19 per month, which is huge! It would be a no brainer to dump DishHD.

However, if I cancel service and my wife signs up for Dish HD (we own two 622s) as a new customer, she will receive the following credits: $49 credit on first bill going through The DishStore, $100 ($10 x 10 months) new customer credit, an additional $100 ($10 x 10 months) DishHD special offer, one free premium channel per month for three months ($7.50 x 3 months), free DHPP ($5.99 x 18 months). Total credits are $379.32 over 18 months or $21.03 savings per month. Thus, out average bill, with credits, for DishHD Platinum would be $100.91.

It's not an easy choice, but my choice is a lot easier since FiOS TV is still a year away in my area.

 

[brcobb]

Hi Jim...

I gladly traded my Adelphia for Dish and their HD offerings back in June. I certainly love the quantity of HD channels. Recently, I also traded Adelphi HSI (4mb/384kb) for Verizon FiOS (15mb/2mb) service. Both moves were a big positive. Verizon's FiOS TV service isn't available yet, but in all likelyhood will be by year's end. At that point, I will be in a position of having to make the choice. At this time, I would probably stick with Dish. As I said, I am extremely happy with the Dish HD channels. Sure, I would like to see channels have more bandwidth and higher resolution. If Verizon comes on board with the Voom channels and begins to offer greater quantity of HD channels, I would then most likely switch.

 

[Hoopnoop]

Thanks for all the input! I actually come out pretty even on the price side of things. I would have to pay the lease fee for the Dish 622 but would also get $200 off HD programming. So, that's a wash. I would only get the bronze package and probably without the locals (the minimum). So, that's $50 per month which is pretty comparable to the basic FIOS with the HD DVR. I would get more SD channels under this comparison with FIOS but more HD channels from Dish.

I haven't had a chance to do a direct comarison of picture quality (which will be imperfect because I would be comparing my FIOS to my neighbor's dish) but the more I watch the FIOS HD the better it looks. Channels like Discovery, HDNet and HDMovies are the best I've seen them from any provider. So, in the end, the trade-off for me primarily involves the following:

Dish - Better DVR, more HD channels
FIOS - Great HD picture quality with no downrezzing

It's a touch choice but it's great to have a choice of two companies who are taking HD seriously!

 

[Jim5506]

NTS FTTH (Fiber to the Home) laid a line within 100 ft of my house, but when I inquired about High Def on their fiber, they said they were waiting for the software to be good enough to do an excellent job of decoding the signal - I'm still with Dish!!

 

[osu1991]

I would only get the bronze package and probably without the locals (the minimum).

If you don't subscribe to locals from dish you will not get guide info for the ota locals on the 622.

 

[Hoopnoop]

Thanks for the information on the guide OSU -- I didn't know that. Can I get my locals OTA and map them into the guide for the locals?

 

[osu1991]

You can map them in but they will not have any info unless you subscribe to dish locals. You would have to set manual timers like on the old vcr if you wanted to dvr anything from the locals. A lot of people do it that way. I personally need the dish locals for my other 2 receivers so it is not a big deal right now.

 

[cleblanc]

You can map them in but they will not have any info unless you subscribe to dish locals. You would have to set manual timers like on the old vcr if you wanted to dvr anything from the locals. A lot of people do it that way. I personally need the dish locals for my other 2 receivers so it is not a big deal right now.

What does guide data look like for OTA locals you can pull in that are not part of your DMA? I know I will receive guide data for the locals that will match but what about any others that the antenna can receive?

 

[osu1991]

It will just say digital local. no other info

 

[Hoopnoop]

So, I have ordered a dish installation and I will see how it goes and looks and can hopefully do a head on head comparison with FIOS. I have to say, the more I see Fios the more I am impressed with the HD picture quality. HDNET and HDNETMOVIES look outstanding on fios.